Justice Kennedy announces retirement

[ZiprHead]

McConnell's policy is to not confirm justices in an election year, so I wouldn't worry about this.

You're a funny guy!

 

[Harry Bosch]

McConnell's policy is to not confirm justices in an election year, so I wouldn't worry about this.

I'm sure that you're right....

Seriously, the republicans are just better at the US Game of Thrones than the democrats. They are a minority party. There are more people on the left than on the right. But the right kicks ass. They are more devoted. They vote better. They know how to play the game. They game the system better. And the left is going to feel the consequences of this for - for a generation...

 

[ZiprHead]

Shouldn't a president who is being investigated for treason be barred from nominating a supreme court Justice?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Shouldn't a president who is being investigated for treason be barred from nominating a supreme court Justice?

Technically Trump hasn't been announced as being under investigation.

 

[ronburgundy]

This is another consequence of liberals failing/refusing to fall in line. More consequences of "bust".

It is a prime example of "lesser of two evils" pitches for office failing hard. People need something to vote for. Its the politicians job to give them that, and if they fail to do so, that's more on them than on the voters.

The "lesser of two evils" isn't a "pitch", it is the only rational way to vote in a pluralistic democracy where the odds of most people having the same ideal candidate are essentially nil. The problem isn't with the pitch, but with the childish, entitled irrationality of those who refuse to compromise and thus loose to the far greater enemy. Perhaps, losing their abortion rights and everything else they will loose with a extreme rightist court is what it will take to snap them out of their "take my ball and go home" approach to politics.

 

[ZiprHead]

Shouldn't a president who is being investigated for treason be barred from nominating a supreme court Justice?

Technically Trump hasn't been announced as being under investigation.

It was a joke that obviously fell flat. Sorry.

 

[southernhybrid]

This is another consequence of liberals failing/refusing to fall in line. More consequences of "bust".

It is a prime example of "lesser of two evils" pitches for office failing hard. People need something to vote for. Its the politicians job to give them that, and if they fail to do so, that's more on them than on the voters.

The "lesser of two evils" isn't a "pitch", it is the only rational way to vote in a pluralistic democracy where the odds of most people having the same ideal candidate are essentially nil. The problem isn't with the pitch, but with the childish, entitled irrationality of those who refuse to compromise and thus loose to the far greater enemy. Perhaps, losing their abortion rights and everything else they will loose with a extreme rightist court is what it will take to snap them out of their "take my ball and go home" approach to politics.

Yes to that. And, Obama did try to get a public option in the ACA. The problem wasn't Obama. The problem was that he couldn't get enough people in Congress to pass anything other than the ACA. As one who has had a husband and a sister who would not have been able to get insurance without the ACA, I'm glad that it was passed. Luckily, my husband turned 65 last year, so now we both have Medicare.

Medicare is far from perfect and I think a lot of people wouldn't really be that happy with it, compared to good private insurance, but those without any insurance would love it. It would be very difficult to transition from what we have now to Medicare for all. It's a lot more complicated than Bernie tried to make it sound. He just acts like he has no idea as to how to put his pie in the sky plans into law. It would probably take decades to go from what we have today to Medicare for all. Don't like the Dems much? Just wait until the Republicans go back to allowing insurance companies to deny insurance to people with preexisting conditions. My husband has well controlled hypertension, and is otherwise very healthy, but when he took time off from work in 2006, nobody would insure him. We finally ended up with an expensive high deductible catastrophic type of insurance. The problem is that too many people vote for emotional reasons, instead of carefully looking at the big picture and coming to terms with the fact that they will never get everything they want.

The only way to get anything done is through compromise. I have friends who were Berniebots, who voted 3rd party because they didn't like Hillary. You don't vote for a person because you like them. You vote for the one that you agree with more than the opponent.

I voted for McGovern, like many of my peers did at the time. Look at how well that turned out.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This is another consequence of liberals failing/refusing to fall in line. More consequences of "bust".

It is a prime example of "lesser of two evils" pitches for office failing hard. People need something to vote for. Its the politicians job to give them that, and if they fail to do so, that's more on them than on the voters.

The "lesser of two evils" isn't a "pitch", it is the only rational way to vote in a pluralistic democracy where the odds of most people having the same ideal candidate are essentially nil. The problem isn't with the pitch, but with the childish, entitled irrationality of those who refuse to compromise and thus loose to the far greater enemy. Perhaps, losing their abortion rights and everything else they will loose with a extreme rightist court is what it will take to snap them out of their "take my ball and go home" approach to politics.

Pragmatism isn't much fun.

But, can we look at the numbers? While if all Jill Stein voters voted for Clinton in the three main states, WI, MI, PA, Clinton would have won, barely in each state... it wasn't as much them.

It was the right-wing that was to blame. Gary Johnson received nearly 400% the vote he received in 2012, getting just shy of 4.5 million votes. These Republican "protest" votes were the huge difference. People that hated Clinton so much, but couldn't stand Trump... elected Trump. It would have taken only 1 in 10 in Michigan, 1 in 4 in Pennsylvania, 1 in 5 in Wisconsin. They made a statement alright. Well, at least they got their tax cut.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Looking at the numbers a little more, it is surprising that Trump barely received a higher white vote than Romney. The problem was the white vote for third parties increased by about 250%. For blacks up 400%, Asians were 900%, Others (?) around 270%, and Hispanic about 350%. About 75% of this was Libertarian votes.

The other thing, blacks didn't show up as much, a small, but significant 3% drop, which amounts to over 500,000 votes. Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics all voted more Trump than Romney, often at the expense of Clinton.

Ironic, that it would have been minorities that would have saved America from Trump... but in the end, even enough of them got swindled by Trump.

 

[starwater]

Dems only need to flip one republican to delay this, assume John McCain does not return. If abortion becomes the main issue, Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) who both support abortion rights may be the deciding factor, especially if the canidate is flawed.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Dems only need to flip one republican to delay this, assume John McCain does not return. If abortion becomes the main issue, Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine) and Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska) who both support abortion rights may be the deciding factor, especially if the canidate is flawed.

McConnell will just promise to them to vote on abortion rights... and they'll cave, like with the Tax Cut bill. Besides, there are a few Dems in red states that McConnell would love to put the screws to.

 

[ronburgundy]

The "lesser of two evils" isn't a "pitch", it is the only rational way to vote in a pluralistic democracy where the odds of most people having the same ideal candidate are essentially nil. The problem isn't with the pitch, but with the childish, entitled irrationality of those who refuse to compromise and thus loose to the far greater enemy. Perhaps, losing their abortion rights and everything else they will loose with a extreme rightist court is what it will take to snap them out of their "take my ball and go home" approach to politics.

Pragmatism isn't much fun.

But, can we look at the numbers? While if all Jill Stein voters voted for Clinton in the three main states, WI, MI, PA, Clinton would have won, barely in each state... it wasn't as much them.

It was the right-wing that was to blame. Gary Johnson received nearly 400% the vote he received in 2012, getting just shy of 4.5 million votes. These Republican "protest" votes were the huge difference. People that hated Clinton so much, but couldn't stand Trump... elected Trump. It would have taken only 1 in 10 in Michigan, 1 in 4 in Pennsylvania, 1 in 5 in Wisconsin. They made a statement alright. Well, at least they got their tax cut.

No, the people to blame are those who did not vote, but still constantly gripe about politics and policy.
% increases don't mean much when the raw baserate numbers are so low. Third party voters had less impact than those who chose not to vote at all (many out of "protest"), and most of those were on the left. Just in Wayne Country, MI (which is the very liberal country where Detriot is), 75,000 Democrats who had voted for Obama did not vote for Hillary. Very few of them voted either Trump or third party, rather about 65,000 did not vote at all. That is 6 times the # of votes she lost the entire state by.
Same in Wisconsin, where Trump got no more votes than Romney did, but 230,000 people who voted for Obama did not vote, which is 8 times the # of votes Hillary lost Wisconsin by.

Looking at the numbers a little more, it is surprising that Trump barely received a higher white vote than Romney. The problem was the white vote for third parties increased by about 250%. For blacks up 400%, Asians were 900%, Others (?) around 270%, and Hispanic about 350%. About 75% of this was Libertarian votes.

The other thing, blacks didn't show up as much, a small, but significant 3% drop, which amounts to over 500,000 votes. Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics all voted more Trump than Romney, often at the expense of Clinton.

Ironic, that it would have been minorities that would have saved America from Trump... but in the end, even enough of them got swindled by Trump.

Again, % increases don't mean much when dealing with such small overall numbers. Far fewer minorities voted Trump than the large number of minorities and leftist on the left didn't vote at all out of protest for Hillary being too moderate, such as those who listened to BLM's nonsense and calls for people to not vote for Hillary.

It is the far left protest non-voters who are mostly to blame for Trump's victory, and they were all told that Kennedy was going to retire and Trump would get to nominate multiple SCOTUS replacements.

 

[Elixir]

Assuming the Trump-McConnell junta gets their new justice, this country is going to be an unprecedented hell-hole for most of its citizens for the next 30 years. Right away, kiss your rights goodbye - human rights, women's rights, privacy rights, civil rights, abortion rights - and pretty much all the rest of your rights. And over that 30 years it's only going to get worse.
The ONLY thing that could possibly avert this catastrophe would be an unlikely combination of invents that would include Dems taking over both houses of Congress and the Presidency in 2020, and either the timely death/retirement of at least two conservative SCOTUS justices, or the addition of two additional liberal ones, followed by getting rid of Citizens United. As long as that CU ruling stands, we will be sinking ever deeper into the abyss.

I give this country about a 0.01% chance of pulling out of this deplorable moral nosedive.
Good job, Vladimir!

 

[EvoUK]

I've seen lots of talk on US conservative boards about looking forward to the appointment of a 'conservative originalist/textualist' judge, and have heard similar things previously- something about the constitution, but I'm not clear what they mean?

Also, they refer to 'liberal judges' (in a right-wing country like the US the concept is amusing- more so because they genuinely believe it) as 'activist' judges- any idea what this means too?

Having trouble parsing the language, mostly to my relative furriner view of the US I guess.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yes to that. And, Obama did try to get a public option in the ACA. The problem wasn't Obama. The problem was that he couldn't get enough people in Congress to pass anything other than the ACA. As one who has had a husband and a sister who would not have been able to get insurance without the ACA, I'm glad that it was passed. Luckily, my husband turned 65 last year, so now we both have Medicare.

Yup. I was uninsured for a few years between when my employer collapsed and the ACA came about.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It was the right-wing that was to blame. Gary Johnson received nearly 400% the vote he received in 2012, getting just shy of 4.5 million votes. These Republican "protest" votes were the huge difference. People that hated Clinton so much, but couldn't stand Trump... elected Trump. It would have taken only 1 in 10 in Michigan, 1 in 4 in Pennsylvania, 1 in 5 in Wisconsin. They made a statement alright. Well, at least they got their tax cut.

Normally people erroneously say that the Libertarian vote belongs to the Republicans, but now you erroneously say the Libertarian vote belongs to the Democrats. Interesting.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

As you noted, ACA wasn't liberal, yet the Conservatives walked away in 2010 with one of the largest lopsided mid-term results in our nation's history... because the ACA was 'very liberal' and death panels.

And is that because it mobilized conservatives to vote against a half measure because it was too liberal? Or was it because liberals failed to turn out in large numbers because many had lost steam and lost hope because even with Obama in power and a majority behind him no attempt was even TRIED for actual liberal policy like single payer? The ACA was a gift to the insurance companies, mandating that coverage be bought, and they they remain players in this, when single payer would have been about taking them out of the equation altogether.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

This is another consequence of liberals failing/refusing to fall in line. More consequences of "bust".

It is a prime example of "lesser of two evils" pitches for office failing hard. People need something to vote for. Its the politicians job to give them that, and if they fail to do so, that's more on them than on the voters.

The "lesser of two evils" isn't a "pitch", it is the only rational way to vote in a pluralistic democracy where the odds of most people having the same ideal candidate are essentially nil. The problem isn't with the pitch, but with the childish, entitled irrationality of those who refuse to compromise and thus loose to the far greater enemy. Perhaps, losing their abortion rights and everything else they will loose with a extreme rightist court is what it will take to snap them out of their "take my ball and go home" approach to politics.

I still say that if the Democratic party was smart enough to actually reform following this loss, and actually transform into a progressive party, then that would be worth the loss to Trump. You were going down the drain with either Hillary or Trump. Trump is just doing it faster, and after he is out, imagine if that loss for Hillary actually transformed the Democrats into a party on the actual left and some real positive change thereafter. If you just live in constant better of two evils thinking, you'll never get anything but evil. It may be a slower decline, but you will still decline and gain no actual hope of turning things around.

I also see a huge impact that Bernie made on the left, with more and more of his type of Democrat winning primaries and more and more talk of him or another like him running next time for President. This is significant progress in itself and should not be overlooked. By keeping the pressure on, some ACTUAL hope and change (not the fake stuff Obama pushed well and Hillary failed to push at all) may come about.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Yes to that. And, Obama did try to get a public option in the ACA.

A "public option". Not single payer. He didn't even TRY for single payer. He could have at least started there and compromised from there. He didn't even try. He abandoned people who voted for him right away in this.

The only way to get anything done is through compromise.

The Democrats keep trying and failing with this. The Republicans go more and more to the right, and the Democrats chase after them to the right looking for the new middle. Hillary didn't even make somebody like Bernie or Warren her VIP pick, but chose somebody just as rightward as she is.

I have friends who were Berniebots, who voted 3rd party because they didn't like Hillary. You don't vote for a person because you like them. You vote for the one that you agree with more than the opponent.

They didn't agree with Bernie and say Jill Stein more than Hillary? They actually voted 3rd party just because Hillary was so unlikeable as a person?

 

[starwater]

Hillary picked the most non-descript vanilla candidate she could fined