Kamala the hypocrite

[Derec]

This is what she tweeted yesterday.

"Politicians should not tell women what to do with their bodies. #SOTU"

Of course, as a politician, Kamala Harris keeps telling women they can't chose to engage in sex work. Whether Kamala Harris understand this or not, there are more things one may choose than just abortion.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Of course, as a politician, Kamala Harris keeps telling women they can't chose to engage in sex work.

Do you have a cite for that? That she tells women they cannot be sex workers, even if they obey the laws regarding sex work?
I mean, not to be confused with prosecuting women or men for violating laws against certain behaviors, where does she say they can not be legal sex workers? Like sexual therapists? Or sexual surrogates? Strippers? Adult Film Actors?

 

[laughing dog]

This is what she tweeted yesterday.

"Politicians ?????? should ?????? not ?????? tell ?????? women ?????? what ?????? to ?????? do ?????? with ?????? their ?????? bodies. #SOTU"

Of course, as a politician, Kamala Harris keeps telling women they can't chose to engage in sex work. Whether Kamala Harris understand this or not, there are more things one may choose than just abortion.

Your conclusion needs some more steps before your case of hypocrisy can stand up to reason.
First, if Ms Harris was specifically referencing Trump and abortion, then there is no hypocrisy, since anti-abortion politicians are only telling women not men what to do with their bodies.
Second, as Keith&Co points out, there is no hypocrisy in being against prostitution (which is a subset of sex work) Telling women and men to obey the law is not hypocrisy.
Thirds, as Keith&CO points out, you need to show that Ms Harris tells only women that they cannot engage in sex work at all.

- - - Updated - - -

This is what she tweeted yesterday.

"Politicians should not tell women what to do with their bodies. #SOTU"

Of course, as a politician, Kamala Harris keeps telling women they can't chose to engage in sex work. Whether Kamala Harris understand this or not, there are more things one may choose than just abortion.

Your conclusion needs some more steps before your case of hypocrisy can stand up to reason.
First, if Ms Harris was specifically referencing Trump and abortion, then there is no hypocrisy, since anti-abortion politicians are only telling women not men what to do with their bodies.
Second, as Keith&Co points out, there is no hypocrisy in being against prostitution (which is a subset of sex work) Telling women and men to obey the law is not hypocrisy.
Thirds, as Keith&CO points out, you need to show that Ms Harris tells only women that they cannot engage in sex work at all.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Thirds, as Keith&CO points out, you need to show that Ms Harris tells only women that they cannot engage in sex work at all.

Well, THAT part I'd give him a pass on.
Derec is not interested in male sex workers, neither being one nor hiring one, and male pregnancy is not covered under most abortion laws written in this country.










Yet.

So the hypocrisy in this instance does revolve rather specifically around what she supports and tells women.
Although, if she DOES tell women they cannot be sex workers, and supports men's rights to work legally in the industry, that would be a different charge of hypocrisy.

 

[blastula]

Deric is not that wrong though. Harris tried to prosecute Backpages for their sex ads, impinging on sex workers' livelihood and perhaps their safety.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I think that it's a valid accusation of hypocrisy. If somebody is going to say that women should be able to choose what to do with their bodies, then they should make a point of holding the position that ... women should be able to choose what to do with their bodies.

If their ACTUAL position is that women should be able to choose what to do with their bodies so long as I agree with the choice that they're making, then they actually have the exact same position as the people whom they're criticizing and simply have a different immoral and icky thing which they want the government to bar them from doing.

Also, has Derec ever stated that he'd have a different standard for male sex workers? I believe that every time the subject has come up, he's said that they should be just as free to do it as female ones. It's just that the vast majority of prostitutes are women, so that's where conversations about the industry naturally end up.

 

[laughing dog]

Deric is not that wrong though. Harris tried to prosecute Backpages for their sex ads, impinging on sex workers' livelihood and perhaps their safety.

Prosecuting Backpages for breaking the law is not hypocrisy.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Deric is not that wrong though. Harris tried to prosecute Backpages for their sex ads, impinging on sex workers' livelihood and perhaps their safety.

Prosecuting Backpages for breaking the law is not hypocrisy.

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Deric is not that wrong though. Harris tried to prosecute Backpages for their sex ads, impinging on sex workers' livelihood and perhaps their safety.

Well, is there any indication she did that for the express purpose of stopping sex workers? Or was that impinging really a side effect of her attempt to stop something illegal like trafficking? You know, keeping people from breaking the law, which was her job as a prosecutor? Not to be confused with taking a moral stance against sex work in all its iterations?


Has she actually SAID women cannot be sex workers?

 

[Politesse]

Deric is not that wrong though. Harris tried to prosecute Backpages for their sex ads, impinging on sex workers' livelihood and perhaps their safety.

Prosecuting Backpages for breaking the law is not hypocrisy.

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

I'm certain Harris would have prosecuted that case as well. You may not like her adherence to the letter of the law, but I wouldn't call her inconsistent or hypocritical about it. Throughout her legal career and even as state AG she had a very precise attitude toward laws as written, even laws that she might want to change given the opportunity to do so. Personally I appreciate this quality in an attourney general, but even if you don't, it is hardly hypocritical. Upholding a law and approving of it are not the same thing.

 

[Gun Nut]

does "women choosing what they do with their bodies" include:

Suicide: Illegal
Body slamming, punching, slapping, etc: assault
physically obstructing: assault
late term abortion: still illegal in most states
under age drinking: illegal
adultery: civil violation - basis for divorce

??

Or, do women only have SOME choice about what they can do with their bodies? It seems there is precedent limiting what anyone can do with their bodies.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

Actually, I really think in THIS case, it's more like legal abortion doctors complaining that her campaign against unlicensed doctors impacted their businesses.


But maybe Derec is talking about something else she's actually done or said...

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

I'm certain Harris would have prosecuted that case as well. You may not like her adherence to the letter of the law, but I wouldn't call her inconsistent or hypocritical about it. Throughout her legal career and even as state AG she had a very precise attitude toward laws as written, even laws that she might want to change given the opportunity to do so. Personally I appreciate this quality in an attourney general, but even if you don't, it is hardly hypocritical. Upholding a law and approving of it are not the same thing.

She didn't adhere to the law, she championed the passage of the law.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/59xzj5/sex-workers-dont-trust-kamala-harris-backpage-fosta-sesta

Last year, Harris, the former Attorney General of California, helped champion the Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA), a piece of legislation sex workers and advocacy groups warned would have a disastrous impact on sex workers’ lives—and they were right. FOSTA passed in April 2018 with Harris’s support, and she released a statement touting how proud she was to have helped move this bill through Congress

If a person helped pass a law which forbade abortion doctors to advertise their services, so pregnant women would need to find out how to contact them through back channels, I'd call that person an anti-abortionist who is using the government to tell women what they can do their bodies by introducing legislative roadblocks to impinge their ability to make a choice which the person disagrees with.

When Harris did the exact same thing, I have the exact same opinion about her actions.

 

[laughing dog]

Deric is not that wrong though. Harris tried to prosecute Backpages for their sex ads, impinging on sex workers' livelihood and perhaps their safety.

Prosecuting Backpages for breaking the law is not hypocrisy.

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

Elected officials are responsible for enforcing the law regardless of their opinion about the law. Doing one's duty by enforcing a law one may disagree with does not make one a hypocrite.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

Actually, I really think in THIS case, it's more like legal abortion doctors complaining that her campaign against unlicensed doctors impacted their businesses.

That would only be a valid analogy in situation where there are actually no legal abortion doctors to make that complaint, since their entire industry had been declared illegal.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That would only be a valid analogy in situation where there are actually no legal abortion doctors to make that complaint, since their entire industry had been declared illegal.

Does FOSTA declare all sex work illegal?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

Elected officials are responsible for enforcing the law regardless of their opinion about the law. Doing one's duty by enforcing a law one may disagree with does not make one a hypocrite.

But that's unrelated to anything which Harris did or the topic of the thread. She helped pass the law in question towards the end of her term as AG.

The hypocrisy is about her avocation for this new law which she helped enact. It's not about her enforcing some law which just happened to be on the books while she was in the office.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That would only be a valid analogy in situation where there are actually no legal abortion doctors to make that complaint, since their entire industry had been declared illegal.

Does FOSTA declare all sex work illegal?

No, but you're saying a relevant analogy would be legal abortion doctors protesting the advertisements of illegal abortion doctors. In order for it to actually be related to the topic, there would need to be legal prostitutes who are not impacted by the shuttering of the ad site for illegal prostitutes. Since there aren't legal prostitutes in California, it wasn't a relevant analogy to make.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That would only be a valid analogy in situation where there are actually no legal abortion doctors to make that complaint, since their entire industry had been declared illegal.

Does FOSTA declare all sex work illegal?

No, but you're saying a relevant analogy would be legal abortion doctors protesting the advertisements of illegal abortion doctors. In order for it to actually be related to the topic, there would need to be legal prostitutes who are not impacted by the shuttering of the ad site for illegal prostitutes. Since there aren't legal prostitutes in California, it wasn't a relevant analogy to make.

No, 'sex worker' is not limited to prostitutes. It includes strippers, for example. So, I think the analogy still applies.

Harris was trying to close legal loopholes for sex trafficking. =! saying women cannot be sex workers at all.

 

[laughing dog]

Well, that's like saying that prosecuting doctors for murdering babies in their mother's wombs isn't a problem where abortion is illegal because they broke the law.

Elected officials are responsible for enforcing the law regardless of their opinion about the law. Doing one's duty by enforcing a law one may disagree with does not make one a hypocrite.

But that's unrelated to anything which Harris did or the topic of the thread. She helped pass the law in question towards the end of her term as AG.

The hypocrisy is about her avocation for this new law which she helped enact. It's not about her enforcing some law which just happened to be on the books while she was in the office.

That is based on the assumption that OP quote is a general claim rather than within the context of abortion. I strongly suspect that Ms. Harris made that tweet in the context of abortion since it was a reply to Trump's SOTU where he talked about asking Congress to pass legislation to prohibit late term abortion. I can find no reference to sex workers or sex work or prostitutes in that speech.