Ladyboys

[Jolly_Penguin]

This is a topic that may sound odd here, but comes up a lot on a Thai forum I read. I just read through a long thread about it. What do you all think about ladyboys and ladyboy culture? Have you ever seen it in the west? Ladyboy bar or show/pageant?

First, a definition. Ladyboy doesn't mean any trans person. Ladyboy (a popular term in Thailand, Philippines, and elsewhere around asia) means trans people (or sometimes not even trans but trans for profit) who are usually pre-op, who dress as women. I think its more like "cross-dresser"?

Some of them go really over the top with it. Some of them compete in pageants. They may or may not actually be trans and may or may not be sexually attracted to men/women. For some of them it is like LARPing, and a once a week or once a month type of thing whereas they otherwise act as stereotypical macho men. They get into the pageantry of it. There are big family friendly shows, professional level and amateur. I came close to trying it myself once (small amateur group) but it was cancelled.

There are others of them who do it on the seedier side, as hookers, looking for johns in bars. Stories abound of these ladyboys fooling straight guys and surprising them. You may have heard about sex tourists to Thailand and them getting infuriated over ladyboy surprises. Its something people laugh about (at the sex tourists). I don't know how often these guys actually get fooled, but I have seen ladyboys trying. You'll spot them in most red light areas, and they aren't too hard to spot (though some of them are really really convincing).

Most ladyboy hookers don't try to fool guys, and instead work at ladyboy bars or otherwise find guys who are specifically looking for ladyboys. I know some of these guys (though its something they won't admit to anybody but really close friends; the probably tell me because they know I am bi). These guys who seek ladyboys are rarely attracted to men. Some, but not all, are attracted to non-ladyboy women. But ladyboys are really their thing. And they are very popular in Bangkok especially. Whether or not these guys are "gay" is something the Thai people usually don't comment on, but the western ex-pats continually debate over, and those who go with ladyboys often go through an "Am I gay?" phase. Does enjoying tugging on a cock while playing with breast implants and kissing a face made up with lipstick, blush and eyeshadow mean you are straight or gay? I don't know how to answer that other than to say it shouldn't matter. Ladyboys are famous for being great at blowjobs, but then many gay men are, so that's understandable. I guess it makes it more palatable for straight or semi-straight guys? lol

So, ladyboy pageants, ladyboys generally, and ladyboy hookers... I've never heard of either of these in the west other than as rare individual cases. I've been to gay bars, but never heard of a ladyboy bar here. Is it more common thing than I realize? How has it been regarded by western trans groups? Is it something you'd try, just to get a feel for what it feels like to be a lady?

It occurs to me that I've never come across any sort of "gentlemangirl" culture here or back in Thailand/Philippines. I wonder why that is? Never heard about women wanting to get with other women who are made up as men.

Ladyboy:

A Male naturaly with all the attributes of a woman except for the plumbing. A true Ladyboy does not need surgery or makeup to look like a woman, nor is there a need to try and sound like a woman it is all natural for them.
If you go in to a club or talk to a Ladyboy on the street you would not know from the body language or voice that you are talking to a man.

Once the truth is known, one might even want to try him/she out just to see if they can get past the plumbing issues.

...

A nice surprise you have in the morning after you got so trashed in that club in Bangkhok and you though you'd scored yourself a 10.
"I was so smashed last night, I shagged a lady-boy"

...

Transvestite; a young male dressed as an attractive girl, often practising as a prostitute.
Back in his room, he discovered she was a ladyboy. But as he'd already paid, he thought he'd better make the best of it. It was the best head he'd ever had.

 

[Jarhyn]

A lot of this has to do with the fairly extreme Western cultural distaste with effeminate "men". In Asia, there is a rich culture of allowing people born with a dick to assume a traditionally "feminine" personality, behavior, attractions, etc.. in the west, due to the demonization of homosexuality by the Christian Church, this has largely been met with extreme prejudice, with "sodomites" being tortured and executed.

These Stark differences between eastern and Western cultures is, in my estimation, the reason why it is largely acceptable in the east to be a "ladyboy". It is unfortunate, I think. There are many aspects of traditional "female" clothing, behaviors, etc. that I mourn being off limits in Western society to those who are considered "masculine", namely purses, jewelery, and skirts.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's difficult to imagine any scenario where young men dress up as girls for the sexual pleasure of men, and there is not a high degree of exploitation.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It's difficult to imagine any scenario where young men dress up as girls for the sexual pleasure of men, and there is not a high degree of exploitation.

Sexual exploitation in which direction? This is men and men. And the men dressing up are not always young.

As I wrote above, while yes, there is the prostitution side of this, there is also a whole side of this that has nothing to do with that. I've even met men who switch it up and reverse roles on who is the ladyboy.

And also there is the side of it not for sexual pleasure at all. If you went to a ladyboy show, and brought your kids, you'd understand. Big colourful costumes, over the top movement, singing nad dancing, totally PG. Your son may even decide he wants to try it. I wanted to try it when I first saw it.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

A lot of this has to do with the fairly extreme Western cultural distaste with effeminate "men". In Asia, there is a rich culture of allowing people born with a dick to assume a traditionally "feminine" personality, behavior, attractions, etc.. in the west, due to the demonization of homosexuality by the Christian Church, this has largely been met with extreme prejudice, with "sodomites" being tortured and executed.

These Stark differences between eastern and Western cultures is, in my estimation, the reason why it is largely acceptable in the east to be a "ladyboy". It is unfortunate, I think. There are many aspects of traditional "female" clothing, behaviors, etc. that I mourn being off limits in Western society to those who are considered "masculine", namely purses, jewelery, and skirts.

Totally agree! I think it is demonized in the west and I would like to see that change. But I don't see the "trans movement" doing that. I support people identifying as whatever gender they want, but that's not the same as this. This is switching your appearance foremost, just to enjoy what "masculinity" and "femininity" may tell you are out of bounds for you.

 

[Jarhyn]

It's difficult to imagine any scenario where young men dress up as girls for the sexual pleasure of men, and there is not a high degree of exploitation.

Honestly, there's a lot of situations where young people dress up as young "ladies", because it suits the person they wish to be. It would probably be much more common in the US and the west if there was not a heavy cultural stigma that made doing so a taboo.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

It is that whole western thing epitomized by the slur "girly boy". I've known guys who even give each other a hard time for wearing a pink shirt.

 

[TSwizzle]

"The Ladyboys of Bangkok" a sort of burlesque show that tours the UK. Saw them years ago in a street performance. Rather silly looking, not my cup of tea.

 

[Bronzeage]

It's difficult to imagine any scenario where young men dress up as girls for the sexual pleasure of men, and there is not a high degree of exploitation.

Sexual exploitation in which direction? This is men and men. And the men dressing up are not always young.

As I wrote above, while yes, there is the prostitution side of this, there is also a whole side of this that has nothing to do with that. I've even met men who switch it up and reverse roles on who is the ladyboy.

And also there is the side of it not for sexual pleasure at all. If you went to a ladyboy show, and brought your kids, you'd understand. Big colourful costumes, over the top movement, singing nad dancing, totally PG. Your son may even decide he wants to try it. I wanted to try it when I first saw it.

I've heard all the same things about American "Pageants", where prepubescent girls have cosmetics applied and then are dressed to imitate sexually attractive women. Call me puritanical, if you wish, but I find that exploitative as well.

My son did go through a period where he dressed up and pretended to be the Ambassador from the Royal Court of Scotland at Renaissance Fairs, but he outgrew that.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

"The Ladyboys of Bangkok" a sort of burlesque show that tours the UK. Saw them years ago in a street performance. Rather silly looking, not my cup of tea.

It varies widely, but yes it is often rather silly.

 

[Jarhyn]

A lot of this has to do with the fairly extreme Western cultural distaste with effeminate "men". In Asia, there is a rich culture of allowing people born with a dick to assume a traditionally "feminine" personality, behavior, attractions, etc.. in the west, due to the demonization of homosexuality by the Christian Church, this has largely been met with extreme prejudice, with "sodomites" being tortured and executed.

These Stark differences between eastern and Western cultures is, in my estimation, the reason why it is largely acceptable in the east to be a "ladyboy". It is unfortunate, I think. There are many aspects of traditional "female" clothing, behaviors, etc. that I mourn being off limits in Western society to those who are considered "masculine", namely purses, jewelery, and skirts.

Totally agree! I think it is demonized in the west and I would like to see that change. But I don't see the "trans movement" doing that. I support people identifying as whatever gender they want, but that's not the same as this. This is switching your appearance foremost, just to enjoy what "masculinity" and "femininity" may tell you are out of bounds for you.

Which is another lamentation I have over the current gender dialogue in the US and the world in general. It's just not recognized socially and culturally that someone should be allowed to be "ala carte" when it comes to gender.

Given the opportunity, I would switch my pants for a skirt and purse, and probably get surgical genital modifications that wouldn't correspond entirely to male OR female anatomy. And this should all be my choice, free of taboo or judgement.

 

[Derec]

There are many aspects of traditional "female" clothing, behaviors, etc. that I mourn being off limits in Western society to those who are considered "masculine", namely purses, jewelery, and skirts.

Aren't rappers portraying themselves as hypermasculine and yet they wear a lot of bling?

Speaking of skirts and purses though ...

 

[Derec]

As I wrote above, while yes, there is the prostitution side of this,

It is also a mistake to equate sex work with "exploitation".

 

[TSwizzle]

Given the opportunity, I would switch my pants for a skirt and purse, and probably get surgical genital modifications that wouldn't correspond entirely to male OR female anatomy. And this should all be my choice, free of taboo or judgement.

You should totally do that.

 

[Jarhyn]

Given the opportunity, I would switch my pants for a skirt and purse, and probably get surgical genital modifications that wouldn't correspond entirely to male OR female anatomy. And this should all be my choice, free of taboo or judgement.

You should totally do that.

And you should totally go take your gaslighting bullshit elsewhere.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why is this in Politics?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why is this in Politics?

Because it is a political issue. At least as much as racism or sexism is, or trans issues are, and those threads are common in this section of your board.

 

[ZiprHead]

Why is this in Politics?

Because it is a political issue. At least as much as racism or sexism is, or trans issues are, and those threads are common in this section of your board.

Sounds more like a culture issue to me. And I don't see anything political in the OP.