Leftists against woke

[DrZoidberg]

The leftist thinker Catherine Liu attacking woke. She argues the left lost its way when it replaced class struggle with identity politics. I agree totally. The whole interview is great.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Sorry guys. Here's the correct link. For some reason the previous video was the last video link I posted to iidb. I assume some weird software bug

 

[Politesse]

Wrong subforum. Polemic videos from racist novelists are a Politics subject, not Social Science.

 

[laughing dog]

Da Vinci was a scientist by the standards of his era so the claim is rather culturally ironic.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Wrong subforum. Polemic videos from racist novelists are a Politics subject, not Social Science.

How is she racist. I haven't seen a shred of that in anything I have read about her?

 

[Harry Bosch]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

 

[Politesse]

Oh no, not "feeling guilty". The worst form of discrimination.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, but I'm willing to guess 10 years ago that commentator would have said that about "liberalism".

I'm so tired of being told that they are trying to make me feel guilty. Somehow I've survived this "woke" plague without ever getting the feeling that I was being castigated as the fault of all things bad.

Yes, there are definitely "social justice warriors" in the sense of people who make a career selling cultural disparities to promote themselves. Left-wing and right-wing have a good number of them. The right-wing ones have AM radio stations, cable news stations dedicated to their SJW'ing. But when Daisy Ridley being the main protagonist in Star Wars is "woke" and Captain Marvel / The Marvels is "woke", and a black Annie is "woke" (or would have been called that if the right-wing was using the term back then), it sends a message about some people wanting media to be a whites-only club.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, but I'm willing to guess 10 years ago that commentator would have said that about "liberalism".

I'm so tired of being told that they are trying to make me feel guilty. Somehow I've survived this "woke" plague without ever getting the feeling that I was being castigated as the fault of all things bad.

I think "feeling guilty" isn't really the right word, but there is an issue with the answer to all ills is to blame white males.

Yes, there are definitely "social justice warriors" in the sense of people who make a career selling cultural disparities to promote themselves. Left-wing and right-wing have a good number of them. The right-wing ones have AM radio stations, cable news stations dedicated to their SJW'ing. But when Daisy Ridley being the main protagonist in Star Wars is "woke" and Captain Marvel / The Marvels is "woke", and a black Annie is "woke" (or would have been called that if the right-wing was using the term back then), it sends a message about some people wanting media to be a whites-only club.

This is the fundamental problem with all movements--organizations first prioritize their own survival over any supposed mission they have. Thus social justice will never be attained, success would destroy the positions (and likely careers) of those "fighting" for it, thus there will always be a "problem".

Thus we face increasingly unreasonable measures of "injustice". It can become codified--I'm thinking of a report on the "fairness" of a system to identify suspect welfare cheats. "Fair" means the new system doesn't suspect any given group more than the old system--but note that this bakes in any inaccuracy of the old system. Fixing it is unacceptable. People see this sort of insanity and the whole effort becomes tainted--they don't see the baby in the bathwater.

 

[Politesse]

I think "feeling guilty" isn't really the right word, but there is an issue with the answer to all ills is to blame white males.

An idea that no serious organization would or does entertain.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, but I'm willing to guess 10 years ago that commentator would have said that about "liberalism".

I'm so tired of being told that they are trying to make me feel guilty. Somehow I've survived this "woke" plague without ever getting the feeling that I was being castigated as the fault of all things bad.

I think "feeling guilty" isn't really the right word, but there is an issue with the answer to all ills is to blame white males.

But if I'm not feeling guilty, are they just blaming "white males"?

CRT was an elective in Law School. Yet, plenty of "white males" felt like they were being "blamed" by the primary school system via CRT.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, "woke" is going too far. But there's enough of it that all of it gets tarred. Movements get known for the most extreme things they accept.

 

[Politesse]

CRT was an elective in Law School. Yet, plenty of "white males" felt like they were being "blamed" by the primary school system via CRT.

Deeply ironic, given how critical theory actually frames race.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, "woke" is going too far.

Where exactly? And people espousing opinions doesn't quite count.

 

[Politesse]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, "woke" is going too far.

Where exactly? And people espousing opinions doesn't quite count.

Toward the promise of a true constitutional republic?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, "woke" is going too far.

Where exactly? And people espousing opinions doesn't quite count.

The basic problem is the metric has become the goal. And that's never good.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, "woke" is going too far.

Where exactly? And people espousing opinions doesn't quite count.

The basic problem is the metric has become the goal. And that's never good.

That isn't an "exactly", that is just more blah blah.

 

[ZiprHead]

I heard a commentator describe liberalism as the belief in creating conditions that allow everyone to flourish. In contrast, he characterized ‘woke’ ideology as focusing on elevating certain groups while encouraging others to feel guilty.

Yeah, "woke" is going too far.

Where exactly? And people espousing opinions doesn't quite count.

The basic problem is the metric has become the goal. And that's never good.

Where is that in "woke"?