Legalizing All Drugs

[steve_bank]

Mayor Pete said during his campaign he wanted to legalize all drugs.


Legal or otherwise society as a whole is harmed by drugs. Legalize it and from what I know medical costs will rise.

We see it with oxy. Legal as all hell, prescribed by doctors.

Pot has been legal in Seattle functionally for a long time and heroin has essentially been decriminalized.

I was walking through a park a block away and passed a young man in his early 20s shooting.

Along with wine and cheap liquor pot has been added to people hanging out on the streets. It is everywhere. You can not walk around downtown Seattle without smelling it.

The next 50-100 years will see how it all plays out.

Having lived through the 60s 70s I had the idea hat it was purely personal choice. Not any more.

Our first opioid epidemic was in the 19th century. Opium was a traded commodity and was available over the counter in several forms. Opium dens where one could go, pay a fee, rrelax, and smoke opium.

 

[Trausti]

The Chinese went to war twice to stop the bad effects of drug use.

 

[DBT]

I'm inclined to think that it would be a bad idea. Yet the 'war' on drugs doesn't appear to be going all that well. Why people feel the need to take drugs should be looked at more closely than it has, prevention and/or treatment rather than punishment, but that's probably languishing in the too hard basket.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Decriminalize, not legalize for the user possessing small amounts. He doesn’t think we should take what is a health problem and add to it a legal problem for the user and all the associated problems that comes with it: loss of income, children with a parent in prison, etc.

 

[bigfield]

Legalize it and from what I know medical costs will rise.

Medical costs are already high. Medical costs are so high that people can't afford proper medical care for chronic and severe pain. It's much cheaper and easier for a doctor to give their patient a script for fentanyl or codeine and send them on their way.

Opioid addition doesn't lead to high medical costs: high medical costs lead to opioid addiction.

Our first opioid epidemic was in the 19th century. Opium was a traded commodity and was available over the counter in several forms. Opium dens where one could go, pay a fee, rrelax, and smoke opium.

Up until a couple of years ago, I was buying opioids over the counter. Legalisation without regulation is just negligent.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Legalize it and from what I know medical costs will rise.

Medical costs are already high. Medical costs are so high that people can't afford proper medical care for chronic and severe pain. It's much cheaper and easier for a doctor to give their patient a script for fentanyl or codeine and send them on their way.

Opioid addition doesn't lead to high medical costs: high medical costs lead to opioid addiction.

That's quite true even though there is no simple solution. Certainly our war on drugs is a failure as there is no sign the demand will ever go away. Addiction is a psychological and biological problem and doesn't have a military solution.

 

[bigfield]

Legalize it and from what I know medical costs will rise.

Medical costs are already high. Medical costs are so high that people can't afford proper medical care for chronic and severe pain. It's much cheaper and easier for a doctor to give their patient a script for fentanyl or codeine and send them on their way.

Opioid addition doesn't lead to high medical costs: high medical costs lead to opioid addiction.

That's quite true even though there is no simple solution. Certainly our war on drugs is a failure as there is no sign the demand will ever go away. Addiction is a psychological and biological problem and doesn't have a military solution.

I don't think the war on drugs was intended to succeed.

The US has past experience with a war on drugs: the prohibition era. It doesn't matter how many gangsters you kill, you can't kill demand and therefore you can't kill the market for the product. All you do is spend a lot of money, expand the prison population, and do a lot of collateral damage. Policymakers know that it's a stupid and destructive policy.

Perhaps the US government is just stupider than I give them credit for, but I think they're getting something else out of it. This "war" has provided domestic support for some pretty belligerent foreign policy in Latin America, and some pretty authoritarian domestic policy. The War on Drugs, like the War on Terror, is a nice excuse to take away people's rights and civil liberties, and it's great for business if you're a vendor supplying the "war effort".

 

[southernhybrid]

Portugal legalized or at least decriminalized all recreational drugs and it worked out quite well. When people who use drugs like heroin, in a safe place with clean needles, there are actually fewer health problems. There are even people who can use these drugs and still function.

If rehab is offered to those who want it, it saves lots of money on law enforcement and prisons. I have supported the legalization of recreational drugs for decades. I see what happens when these drugs are illegal. I see what happens when young people, usually men, are given long prisons sentences. It's insane. It's not the drugs that ruin their lives, it's the long prison sentences that do.

I personally think, based on my readings and experiences with people who abuse ETOH, that ETOH, when abused, is as dangerous as most recreational drugs. So, I may be the outlier in this thread. Read about how Portugal handles this and how well it worked out. Drug usage didn't go up. People aren't going to suddenly start using meth or cocaine just because it's legal. People who use drugs will use them regardless of their legality. To me, it makes no sense to punish people for their unhealthy habits. Fuck. Over eating causes far more health problems than recreational drug use, but we aren't going to ban sugar or restrict how much people eat. Obesity has caused huge increases in diabetes, heart disease etc. We should have compassion for people who have problems with food or drugs.

I would certainly make it a crime to drive while intoxicated, or to use carelessly around children etc. I would just rather offer help and safe using stations to those who have these habits. I believe it would actually save money. Plus, those who want help could do it without as much stigma. I've given this a lot of though over the years, so my position is pretty firm.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Mayor Pete said during his campaign he wanted to legalize all drugs.


Legal or otherwise society as a whole is harmed by drugs. Legalize it and from what I know medical costs will rise.

We see it with oxy. Legal as all hell, prescribed by doctors.

Pot has been legal in Seattle functionally for a long time and heroin has essentially been decriminalized.

I was walking through a park a block away and passed a young man in his early 20s shooting.

Along with wine and cheap liquor pot has been added to people hanging out on the streets. It is everywhere. You can not walk around downtown Seattle without smelling it.

The next 50-100 years will see how it all plays out.

Having lived through the 60s 70s I had the idea hat it was purely personal choice. Not any more.

Our first opioid epidemic was in the 19th century. Opium was a traded commodity and was available over the counter in several forms. Opium dens where one could go, pay a fee, rrelax, and smoke opium.

We should probably get off your lawn, too.

As for how it will go (also, as noted above, Pete wanted to decrimiinalize it, not legalize, there's a difference):
Average cost/person in the Netherlands (you know, where it's rather famous for being legal): "Basic health insurance (in the Netherlands) costs around 100 euros per month and covers: Appointments with your doctor (huisarts) Stays at the hospital, surgery and emergency treatment (ziekenhuis)"

Average cost in the US/month: $240

https://sandiegofreepress.org/2012/09/comparison-dutch-vs-us-private-health-care-costs/#.XmJnLkplBhE

So I think your strawman might be a little beat up. But at least you, personally, weren't affected!

 

[ideologyhunter]

Don't folks know that we lose over 60,000 lives in this country -- each year -- due to opioid abuse? That's more than the total American deaths from the Vietnam War. Each year, we exceed the Vietnam death toll!!!! That's more than an epidemic. It's a tsunami.
Wait -- this just in -- the yearly alcohol-related deaths in the U.S. are about 88,000. So I guess that's the worst onslaught of lifestyle-based deaths. Wouldn't you say?
Wait -- tobacco puts 480,000 Americans in the grave each year.
Let's not even talk about Hostess Twinkies & Big Macs.

 

[Gun Nut]

Decriminalize, not legalize for the user possessing small amounts. He doesn’t think we should take what is a health problem and add to it a legal problem for the user and all the associated problems that comes with it: loss of income, children with a parent in prison, etc.

.. similar to what many other countries have done...

Possession - no crime
Sale - jail

 

[Gun Nut]

Don't folks know that we lose over 60,000 lives in this country -- each year -- due to opioid abuse? That's more than the total American deaths from the Vietnam War. Each year, we exceed the Vietnam death toll!!!! That's more than an epidemic. It's a tsunami.
Wait -- this just in -- the yearly alcohol-related deaths in the U.S. are about 88,000. So I guess that's the worst onslaught of lifestyle-based deaths. Wouldn't you say?
Wait -- tobacco puts 480,000 Americans in the grave each year.
Let's not even talk about Hostess Twinkies & Big Macs.

.. or people dying in car accidents... 1.25 MILLION DEATHS PER YEAR!! about 100 people just died while you were reading this thread.

Everything else should be dropped and this addressed first, and only.

 

[Elixir]

.. or people dying in car accidents... 1.25 MILLION DEATHS PER YEAR!! about 100 people just died while you were reading this thread.

Everything else should be dropped and this addressed first, and only.

Most of those are alcohol, opiate and/or tobacco-related.

 

[rousseau]

What if instead of looking at drugs as a good vs bad false dichotomy, we actually developed policy around them that was nuanced, contextually based, and not built to prop up the DEA?

 

[Gun Nut]

.. or people dying in car accidents... 1.25 MILLION DEATHS PER YEAR!! about 100 people just died while you were reading this thread.

Everything else should be dropped and this addressed first, and only.

Most of those are alcohol, opiate and/or tobacco-related.

all of them are automotive related.

 

[TSwizzle]

California is already experimenting with the idea. And it's a disaster. Los Angeles and San Francisco streets are littered with drug addled homeless people shitting in the street where they stand.

 

[rousseau]

California is already experimenting with the idea. And it's a disaster. Los Angeles and San Francisco streets are littered with drug addled homeless people shitting in the street where they stand.

Could this be a correlation != causation thing? Doesn't San Francisco have a severe housing crisis?

 

[TSwizzle]

California is already experimenting with the idea. And it's a disaster. Los Angeles and San Francisco streets are littered with drug addled homeless people shitting in the street where they stand.

Could this be a correlation != causation thing? Doesn't San Francisco have a severe housing crisis?

No, not really. It has a problem with junkies and mental cases wandering the street and petty crime.

 

[DBT]

Maybe a sense of hopelessness drives them to take drugs in the first place, then it becomes a downward spiral?

 

[J842P]

California is already experimenting with the idea. And it's a disaster. Los Angeles and San Francisco streets are littered with drug addled homeless people shitting in the street where they stand.

Could this be a correlation != causation thing? Doesn't San Francisco have a severe housing crisis?

No, not really. It has a problem with junkies and mental cases wandering the street and petty crime.

I live in San Francisco, in the heart of it all, The Tenderloin. So if you look at the famous poop-maps, I live in the most poop-concentrated area. I pay $2700 a month for a 400 square foot studio. I was living before with 3 people in a 2br, 2br. I was paying $2,000, and that was considered cheap.

I could go cheaper, but it would become super shitty. I checked out a place that looked OK for like $1500, and it turned out that it was communal showers/bathrooms, like a college dorm room.

You can find decent places around that price that are rent-controlled, but they get snatched up immediately, and people tend to hold on to them for dear life.

The *median* home price in San Francisco is 1.4 million dollars. Yes there is a severe housing crisis.

The problem with the homeless junkies is separate, I agree. People who aren't severely mentally ill and addicted to drugs, like actual families falling on hard times, can take advantage of the homeless services in the area, and the city houses a lot of these people (at exorbitant costs).

It's still the best area in the country for my work, although, Austin is looking better every day. I may end up just moving to New York.