Let's Go!

[poster]

The system is the hospitals and the doctors and the nurses and many more workers and support workers and the drugs and the lab tests and the procedures. And the materials and equipment.

Ah! That's like saying that car manufacturers, along with new and used dealers and repair shops is a system. I suppose that is technically correct, but I see it as a natural extension and manifistation of marketing. In other words, it wasn't designed as a system per se.

That same holds true for this health care "system".

The insurance system is how this health care is paid for by patients.

That is and isn't accurate, IMO. Insurance in this context is more like a monthly membership payment that entitles the payer to discounts. I believe the range of discounts are somewhere between 10% to around 70% depending on the coverage. But then there are often huge out of pocket expenses such as deductables and copays. The question Americans don't appear to be asking themselves regarding montly insurance is if the medical facilities are willing to accept, say, 50 cents on the dollar from insurance companies, why won't they just accept that from the patient? I'll tell you why. In simple terms It's because insurance potfolios are heavy in medical investments and medical investment portfolios are heavy in insurance investments. They feed one another. I think I'd call that collusion.

Insurance does nothing but gives money unnecessarily to a middleman. It's a scam, pure and simple.

I'm listening.

Single Payer. Medicare for all.

Or even better something better than Medicare. No co-payments, no doughnut holes, the ability to negotiate with drug manufacturers to lower drug costs, everything covered. And you fund the hell out of it. You make it the best system in the world. You make it a huge government priority.

It will also help the economy in many ways. More healthcare workers. More support workers. More equipment. More materials.

No more people going bankrupt because of health care costs.

A system where all persons are covered.

The best system is where all people have the exact same coverage. Where everybody has the best coverage possible.

A system where the health of some people is not worth more than the health of other people.

I'm all for it. I have this because my healthcare is through the VA. I pay nothing and I get pretty good quality care. The problem today is that the private sector in so entrenched in the health infrastructure that going to something like the VA for everyone or medicare for all is pretty much already defeated by the infrastructure now in place. i doubt that will change. So we'll need to find a way to combine the two, and that will take enormous sacrifice on the part of the patient. that is what the ACA has proven. The ACA, which is a conservative approach to health care sucks, and if that's the best these wussy politicians can offer us, we need new blood in our political system. We got some of that yesterday, but we'll need to wait and see how that translates into real world solutions. I admit I am more hopeful today than I was yesterday. Lots of young females got elected. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

[untermensche]

Ah! That's like saying that car manufacturers, along with new and used dealers and repair shops is a system. I suppose that is technically correct, but I see it as a natural extension and manifistation of marketing. In other words, it wasn't designed as a system per se.

That's an industry. The automotive industry. It feeds a lot of people from manufacturers to sales people to people that repair and people that provide gas and tires. To people that manufacture pine scented air fresheners.

You could call the health care system an industry and nothing would change.

It's just common to call it a system.

The problem today is that the private sector in so entrenched in the health infrastructure that going to something like the VA for everyone or medicare for all is pretty much already defeated by the infrastructure now in place....

The health infrastructure is just the places getting paid.

They have been having to make changes for decades.

They can make another change to another way to get paid very easily.

 

[poster]

I agree that we're discussing an "industry". If it's a "system" it's a loose definition of the word.

Because of the fact that an industry will resist regulation, the costs can spiral out of control easily and that is a markets approach of reducing wait times and other expectations by reducing patient roles. That is the exact opposite approach than a universal system would afford it's citizens. This is the problem that needs to be remedied. This goes completely against the grain of cultral belief that only the strong should survive and strength is accuired through a desire to better oneselve economically.

So, it takes a cultural sea change to get Medicare for all. As it is now, only the weak and those who have put themselves in harms way through military service are entitled to such things.

 

[untermensche]

I agree that we're discussing an "industry". If it's a "system" it's a loose definition of the word.

Industry is somewhat loose.

Because it is the skilled use of industry on humans.

That is not purely an industry.

It is a system where industry is applied.

A system.

A regulated system because it is good when a surgeon needs a license.

 

[poster]

I agree that we're discussing an "industry". If it's a "system" it's a loose definition of the word.

Industry is somewhat loose.

Because it is the skilled use of industry on humans.

That is not purely an industry.

It is a system where industry is applied.

A system.

A regulated system because it is good when a surgeon needs a license.

How are you measuring success?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Flipping the house means they can stop the bad legislation by the Republicans but there's no hope of getting anything good through.

However, they can now do a better job of investigating the Republican abuses.

 

[poster]

Flipping the house means they can stop the bad legislation by the Republicans but there's no hope of getting anything good through.

However, they can now do a better job of investigating the Republican abuses.

What do you consider to be "good" legislation?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Flipping the house means they can stop the bad legislation by the Republicans but there's no hope of getting anything good through.

However, they can now do a better job of investigating the Republican abuses.

What do you consider to be "good" legislation?

Something that helps America rather than something that helps the rich.

 

[poster]

Flipping the house means they can stop the bad legislation by the Republicans but there's no hope of getting anything good through.

However, they can now do a better job of investigating the Republican abuses.

What do you consider to be "good" legislation?

Something that helps America rather than something that helps the rich.

Examples?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Something that helps America rather than something that helps the rich.

Examples?

Fix the ACA rather than keeping trying to poke holes in it like the Republicans want to.

Pass the anti-binding-arbitration measure that died in committee last session.