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Let's talk about VOICE

 
 
 
PyramidHead

PyramidHead

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From CNN:

As mandated by Trump's executive order signed last month, the Department of Homeland Security announced in implementation guidance issued last week that it would create the Victims Of Immigration Crime Engagement office, or VOICE.
"I have ordered the Department of Homeland Security to create an office to serve American victims," Trump said Tuesday night. "We are providing a voice to those who have been ignored by our media, and silenced by special interests."
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Most violent crimes aren't committed by immigrants and most immigrants don't commit violent crimes. So why are we doing this again?

Oh that's right, Steve Bannon.
 
exactly.

It sounds to me like just another means of creating an "us vs them" atmosphere.
 
A white American blew up the Olympics. A white American blew up a child day care in OKC. White Americans are committing dreadful crimes across our nation. When will we stop putting these crimes in a closet and let people hear the voices of the families of the victims of white Americans?
 
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RavenSky said:
Victims Of Ivory Crime Engagement
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LOL...then there could be the Dept. of Victims of Idiot Crime Engagement...right next door to the Dept. of Silly Walks.
 
It's Naziesque.
 
My sense is that Trump supporters have a very linear conception of crimes committed by immigrants, including refugees. They start from the trivially true premise that, for a given crime committed by an immigrant, the crime would not have happened if we didn't let the immigrant in. After that, they oh er um hang on a minute. There is no after that, and they just keep giving examples of people killed by immigrants and making the same point over and over again. Which is stupid, because you can come up with any distinguishing characteristic about a group of people and do the same thing. For every crime committed by a person with facial hair, that crime could have been prevented if we had deported all people with facial hair from the country. It's true, but it doesn't get you anywhere.

What they leave out is why we should treat immigrant crime as a separate issue from just crime. They leave out all the other ways we can prevent or reduce crime across the board. They leave out all the immigrants who obey the law, and all the non-immigrants who break it, with no comparison between the two proportions to see if the whole enterprise is even worth pursuing in the first place. I really think Trump/Bannon's plan is to whip those who are susceptible to such simplistic reasoning into enough of a frenzy that they become even more entrenched in their fear and ignorance, to the point where actual people are going to get hurt and die.
 
The establishment of VOICE is in direct conflict with his EO that created a "hiring Freeze" within the Executive branch of the Federal government.
Out of one side of his mouth he claims to want to decrease government waste, and then out the other he is wasting government resources by creating this office.
 
RavenSky said:
Like Adam Purinton
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From that link, this is what gives me some hope
Grillot, 24, was shot in the hand and chest as he tried to subdue Purinton.

“I got behind him and he turned around and fired a round at me,” he said, in a video from his hospital bed.

“I was just doing what anyone should have done for another human being. It’s not about where he’s from, we’re all humans.
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Jimmy Higgins said:
A white American blew up the Olympics. A white American blew up a child day care in OKC. White Americans are committing dreadful crimes across our nation. When will we stop putting these crimes in a closet and let people hear the voices of the families of the victims of white Americans?
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http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/...-unit-combating-far-right-domestic-terrorism/

As we’ve reported, Republican politicians and conservative activists alleged that the report focused on a nonexistent threat and would be used by the government to mark all conservatives, particularly Christians, gun owners and veterans, as terrorists.
The Right saw an opportunity to stir up a fake controversy in order to raise money, reinforce the narrative of conservative activists as victims and provoke animosity toward President Obama. In the process they helped make it harder for DHS to investigate a very real threat to American security.
​
Under pressure, Homeland Security retracted the report and ended up “gutting” the very unit combating such threats. Ironically, the author of the report was actually a conservative Republican Mormon who saw his team “dissolved” due to the criticism.

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Do you feel safer now? These people are morons.
 
Crimes are committed by some immigrants. However the US has a right to expel legal immigrants (but not yet citizens) who are convicted of crimes, and illegal immigrants likewise.

Expelling members of illegal Mexican and Latino gangs who commit crimes should be a priority and it is difficult to understand why this would be a problem.

Further, both Europe and the USA can take in people who can fulfil genuine vacancies by way of contract and a subsequent work visa. This allows the authorities more of an opportunity to vet those who enter.
 
whichphilosophy said:
Crimes are committed by some immigrants. However the US has a right to expel legal immigrants (but not yet citizens) who are convicted of crimes, and illegal immigrants likewise.

Expelling members of illegal Mexican and Latino gangs who commit crimes should be a priority and it is difficult to understand why this would be a problem.

Further, both Europe and the USA can take in people who can fulfil genuine vacancies by way of contract and a subsequent work visa. This allows the authorities more of an opportunity to vet those who enter.
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None of this is a problem, which is why Obama was doing it. His administration deported hundreds of thousands illegals targeting those who had been convicted of serious crimes. The problem is that Trump and the Republicans pretended that it wasn't being done and only they could do it. Trump ran his campaign against his own fantasy of the situation. It is past the time that he stops tilting at the imagined windmills of his mind and starts dealing with reality.

I disagree about H1B1 visas. And I probably applied for more of them than anyone here. The program was suppose to be a temporary one, meant to provide skilled workers until we could train native workers. It has turned into a way to suppress the wages of native workers. It is not so much that companies can't find the skilled workers that they need, but that companies can't find the skilled workers that they need at a wage that they want to pay.

The visa holders are in effect indentured servants, bound to the companies who hold the visas. A simple change would all but eliminate the program. Issue the visas to the workers and allow them to apply for and to take other jobs once they are in the country. This shouldn't be hard to do since so many of the supporters of the visa program profess to believe in an open and free marketplace, right?
 
SimpleDon said:
whichphilosophy said:
Crimes are committed by some immigrants. However the US has a right to expel legal immigrants (but not yet citizens) who are convicted of crimes, and illegal immigrants likewise.

Expelling members of illegal Mexican and Latino gangs who commit crimes should be a priority and it is difficult to understand why this would be a problem.

Further, both Europe and the USA can take in people who can fulfil genuine vacancies by way of contract and a subsequent work visa. This allows the authorities more of an opportunity to vet those who enter.
Click to expand...

None of this is a problem, which is why Obama was doing it. His administration deported hundreds of thousands illegals targeting those who had been convicted of serious crimes. The problem is that Trump and the Republicans pretended that it wasn't being done and only they could do it. Trump ran his campaign against his own fantasy of the situation. It is past the time that he stops tilting at the imagined windmills of his mind and starts dealing with reality.

I disagree about H1B1 visas. And I probably applied for more of them than anyone here. The program was suppose to be a temporary one, meant to provide skilled workers until we could train native workers. It has turned into a way to suppress the wages of native workers. It is not so much that companies can't find the skilled workers that they need, but that companies can't find the skilled workers that they need at a wage that they want to pay.

The visa holders are in effect indentured servants, bound to the companies who hold the visas. A simple change would all but eliminate the program. Issue the visas to the workers and allow them to apply for and to take other jobs once they are in the country. This shouldn't be hard to do since so many of the supporters of the visa program profess to believe in an open and free marketplace, right?
Click to expand...

The system in Hong Kong sand the UAE seems to work well. Once the contract is drafted it is sent to the Labour department for review. Immigration and Labour departments process this to make sure there are no security or criminal issues on file or on the databases of country of origin (where it is possible to check). People are hired pretty quickly.
 
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