Look who would be aborted!

[Lion IRC]

BTW, some fellow liberals are likely squeamish about acknowledging the reality that legal abortion is a net benefit to society.

The one thing abortion on demand advocates all have in common
...they've all been born.

See this millennial pro-abortionist Brianna Parkins stumbling headlong into hypocrisy as she complains about Irish pro-choice legislation enacted before she was BORN

#irony

 

[Bomb#20]

BTW, some fellow liberals are likely squeamish about acknowledging the reality that legal abortion is a net benefit to society.
This is in part because it requires acknowledging the greater criminal actions of the poor. But this is only a problem if you presume this is rooted is some inherent nature of the people born into poverty, which I do not. If poverty is an unfortunate circumstance that shapes who people become (an idea quite compatible with a liberal viewpoint), then the net positive impact of legal abortions is just partially a byproduct of these effects of poverty. I say partially because bad circumstances to bring children into are clearly not limited to the poor, just more prevalent. For example, abused middle class women who are free to abort the fetuses of the asshole fathers will also produce a net benefit to society over those fetuses being coercively brought to term.

Another reason I suspect some liberals balk at arguments like my above post is that it sounds to the uncritical ear like some rationale for eugenics. But it is actually the opposite. The benefits to society of selective abortion are precisely tied to that selective choice being made by the parents only, whose decision to do so is impacted by the very same factors that will impact their child (and thus society), if they choose to bring it to term. The only thing anyone but the parents should do is try to make it so that those factors are the one's that the parents consider rather than unrelated coercive pressures related to religious or political coercion or political/economic obstacles created by others to abortions more difficult.

Also, Galileo has explained why the earth rotating on its axis and revolving around the sun don't conflict with Holy Scripture, properly interpreted.

 

[Playball40]

Does it matter to you at all that OUTLAWING abortion does NOT stop it? It simply kills more people that seek it? Why do you want to kill mothers that most likely have other children at home that need them?

BTW, some fellow liberals are likely squeamish about acknowledging the reality that legal abortion is a net benefit to society.

The one thing abortion on demand advocates all have in common
...they've all been born.

See this millennial pro-abortionist Brianna Parkins stumbling headlong into hypocrisy as she complains about Irish pro-choice legislation enacted before she was BORN

#irony

 

[Lion IRC]

How does outlawing murder lead to an increase in the murder rate?

 

[Underseer]

Sorry if I missed it, but did any of the anti-choice people explain why living women should have fewer rights than our society grants to corpses?

This has 3 resolutions:

1. Take away rights from corpses and allow organs to be harvested regardless of what the person wanted when they were alive. Also, it should be possible to force people to give blood whether they want to or not.
2. Give women as much rights as a corpse and let them decide if an abortion should happen.
3. Admit that our society values women less than we value corpses.

And of course, out of the three, I expect anti-choice people to chose to use a special pleading fallacy instead of anything on the above list that would actually resolve the contradiction.

 

[Underseer]

How does outlawing murder lead to an increase in the murder rate?

Outlawing abortion doesn't stop people from getting abortions. It just forces them to get abortions in back alleys instead of at clinics by doctors.

Don't play coy. You know darned well that outlawing abortion increases the number of women who die. Isn't that one of the things that makes the anti-choice position appealing?

 

[bilby]

How does outlawing murder lead to an increase in the murder rate?

If killing isn't murder, then the murder rate is zero. Unless you define 'murder' to include lawful killings, the outlawing of murder is the only way to have a non-zero murder rate, and so can only lead to its increase.

 

[bilby]

Sorry if I missed it, but did any of the anti-choice people explain why living women should have fewer rights than our society grants to corpses?

This has 3 resolutions:

1. Take away rights from corpses and allow organs to be harvested regardless of what the person wanted when they were alive. Also, it should be possible to force people to give blood whether they want to or not.
2. Give women as much rights as a corpse and let them decide if an abortion should happen.
3. Admit that our society values women less than we value corpses.

And of course, out of the three, I expect anti-choice people to chose to use a special pleading fallacy instead of anything on the above list that would actually resolve the contradiction.

Option 1 has more extreme consequences than mere involuntary blood transfusions ; under that option, a healthy person should be killed and their organs harvested so that a number of sick people can live. Your continued life denies survival to one heart transplant patient, between one and three liver transplant patients, two kidney transplant patients and several bone marrow transplant patients; while seriously reducing the quality of life of two people who need new corneas, and a huge number of people who need various grafts, tissues and other organs.

At least a woman who chooses an abortion is only denying life to one other person by her excercise of bodily autonomy.

 

[OLDMAN]

This has probably been mentioned, but the number of women who miscarriage is between 13 to 20 percent. One could say nature is to cause, but if you believe in God and his plan then you have to place the entire blame on him. So it appears God's natural abortion clinics run 24/7 around the clock. Yet Christians line up to argue abortion is murder, when clearly God could intercede and make all pregnancies safe.....if he loves babies.

 

[Underseer]

Sorry if I missed it, but did any of the anti-choice people explain why living women should have fewer rights than our society grants to corpses?

This has 3 resolutions:

1. Take away rights from corpses and allow organs to be harvested regardless of what the person wanted when they were alive. Also, it should be possible to force people to give blood whether they want to or not.
2. Give women as much rights as a corpse and let them decide if an abortion should happen.
3. Admit that our society values women less than we value corpses.

And of course, out of the three, I expect anti-choice people to chose to use a special pleading fallacy instead of anything on the above list that would actually resolve the contradiction.

Option 1 has more extreme consequences than mere involuntary blood transfusions ; under that option, a healthy person should be killed and their organs harvested so that a number of sick people can live. Your continued life denies survival to one heart transplant patient, between one and three liver transplant patients, two kidney transplant patients and several bone marrow transplant patients; while seriously reducing the quality of life of two people who need new corneas, and a huge number of people who need various grafts, tissues and other organs.

At least a woman who chooses an abortion is only denying life to one other person by her excercise of bodily autonomy.

Yes, and have you noticed that in nations where anti-choice forces manage to pass anti-choice laws, exceptions are generally not made to save the life of the woman who is pregnant?

- - - Updated - - -

This has probably been mentioned, but the number of women who miscarriage is between 13 to 20 percent. One could say nature is to cause, but if you believe in God and his plan then you have to place the entire blame on him. So it appears God's natural abortion clinics run 24/7 around the clock. Yet Christians line up to argue abortion is murder, when clearly God could intercede and make all pregnancies safe.....if he loves babies.

You have to remember that under Christian "morality," things are good or bad based on who does them, not based on what is done.

So when God kills "babies," that is morally good, but if you do the same thing, it is morally evil.

You might think you made a "gotcha" for Christians, but every Christian can resolve the above conundrum with the same moral relativism they use every day. It would be trivial for most Christians to ignore your conundrum.

 

[Rhea]

This has probably been mentioned, but the number of women who miscarriage is between 13 to 20 percent. One could say nature is to cause, but if you believe in God and his plan then you have to place the entire blame on him. So it appears God's natural abortion clinics run 24/7 around the clock. Yet Christians line up to argue abortion is murder, when clearly God could intercede and make all pregnancies safe.....if he loves babies.

It is significantly higher than that when studied deliberately by watching women who are trying to get and maintain a pregnancy so as to include the spontaneous abortions (or “god-ordered murders”) that occure before a woman even knows she’s pregnant, or cares about reporting it.

The number is more like 30-50% of all pregnancies result in spontaeous abortion, aka “miscarriage” aka “God-ordered murders”.

 

[OLDMAN]

Wonder what happens to their souls? Do they go to heaven and stay as babies who aren't aware they exist?

 

[Rhea]

Wonder what happens to their souls? Do they go to heaven and stay as babies who aren't aware they exist?

See, here’s my theory: (maybe it would make an interesting thread of its own...)

1. God made heaven to be happy and therefore no range of “maturity” exists, every soul there is “mature”
2. But god can’t make souls in heaven. (And for some reason he desires new souls - perhaps he feeds on them and they need replenishing?)
3. So god created earth as a soul-factory
4. And factory metrics include productivity rates.
5. The aborted souls repesent high productivity. Fast, perfect results.
6. But in order to get those, you need to use some of the imperfect previous product (“parents”) as what factories call “secondary raw materials” or “trim re-use” or “remelt” or “cullet” or “yeast mother” to be re-made into product
7. So aborted fetuses (including the majority god-abortions) represent top shelf product and
8. Other Humans represent flawed-but usable product and
9. Hell-bound represent product rejects.
   
10. Reincarnation explains this trim reuse more as “re-work” through several loops until finally nirvana.

That’s my theory.
And so humans helping along the defect-free product can only be good in god’s eyes. Right?

 

[OLDMAN]

It does become apparent that God needs us to exist and be worshiped by us. Clearly the angels were too fucked up to kneel too him and a revolt began to fester. We really don't need God unless your weak willed and can't fathom what real death entails...not existing. People don't put a lot of thought into living forever in a church atmosphere, that would be awful. Most of them like the idea of a final true justice for all those who got away with things in life....but there is an easy way out of that, especially if you know you've done some really bad shit.

PS: I like your theory too...

 

[Underseer]

This has probably been mentioned, but the number of women who miscarriage is between 13 to 20 percent. One could say nature is to cause, but if you believe in God and his plan then you have to place the entire blame on him. So it appears God's natural abortion clinics run 24/7 around the clock. Yet Christians line up to argue abortion is murder, when clearly God could intercede and make all pregnancies safe.....if he loves babies.

It is significantly higher than that when studied deliberately by watching women who are trying to get and maintain a pregnancy so as to include the spontaneous abortions (or “god-ordered murders”) that occure before a woman even knows she’s pregnant, or cares about reporting it.

The number is more like 30-50% of all pregnancies result in spontaeous abortion, aka “miscarriage” aka “God-ordered murders”.

God is a baby-murderer.

That's funny because all this anti-abortion crap isn't even from the Bible. In fact that there are a variety of passages that lead one to the conclusion that the authors didn't consider fetuses people at all.

So why do American conservatives believe that God wants to protect the fetuses if the Bible says otherwise? Because American evangelical leaders were fishing around for a galvanizing issue for their nascent conservative Christian movement. You see, the thing that originally brought them together was school busing, but they couldn't use that issue at all (even though it was the issue conservative Christians of the time cared about the most) because it made it obvious that they are a bunch of racists. During a phone meeting, someone suggested abortion, and that has been the rallying cry of conservatives ever since.

Abortion is literally nothing more than a non-issue that exists solely to distract people from the fact that the conservative Christian movement is animated and originally galvanized by racism. In America, concern over abortion pretty much indicates "KKK, but without the hood."

 

[fromderinside]

The number is more like 30-50% of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion, aka “miscarriage” aka “God-ordered murders”.

Congratulations Kansas for putting responsibility of religious fervor directly at the bleeding spots of women produced by that supreme being faerie.

I'm certain that it was God's will that my daughter get surgery to remove fibroids so she could take one of two implants to term. /sheesh

 

[OLDMAN]

The number is more like 30-50% of all pregnancies result in spontaneous abortion, aka “miscarriage” aka “God-ordered murders”.

Congratulations Kansas for putting responsibility of religious fervor directly at the bleeding spots of women produced by that supreme being faerie.

I'm certain that it was God's will that my daughter get surgery to remove fibroids so she could take one of two implants to term. /sheesh

God made it all possible...unless your Amish and technology stopped with the wheel.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Alternately:

Look who the world would be missing if she had a headache that night.



Ban headaches!!