Major airlines still have not learned their lesson

[untermensche]

Some people have their head shoved so far up the asses they are kissing of the corporations they can't see anything.

huh? If I am required to buy a ticket for someone and I don't, how is that a problem with the corporation?

If there was any scam it was on a previous flight, not this one.

On this flight people with seats they had paid for were told they could not use one of them.

 

[RavenSky]

Did you even read the article? They actually bought FIVE tickets. Four on this flight plus one on an earlier flight that their teenage son took. They bought and paid for FOUR seats on this airplane, but Delta was trying to force them to carry one of their children on their lap so they could give the seat to a standby passenger.

Ahem. No, the child could not use that seat since it was not booked for it in its own name and the extra addition needed for a so small child to use the seat wasnt available (since it wasnt booked as a small children)

Ahem, if the name was not changed, that is on Delta, too. They should have put the child's name on the ticket when they booked the earlier flight for the teenager.

And as the father said, they went through multiple check-points with two young children and two car seats for the two airplanes seats they paid for.

Delta fucked up again, even before they started threatening these parents with taking away their children.

 

[Juma]

Ahem. No, the child could not use that seat since it was not booked for it in its own name and the extra addition needed for a so small child to use the seat wasnt available (since it wasnt booked as a small children)

Ahem, if the name was not changed, that is on Delta, too. They should have put the child's name on the ticket when they booked the earlier flight for the teenager.

And as the father said, they went through multiple check-points with two young children and two car seats for the two airplanes seats they paid for.

Delta fucked up again, even before they started threatening these parents with taking away their children.

Ahem, ahem. The family bought a new ticket, they didnt change the ticket they already had bought. That is on the family not delta.
And why should security have acted? The child didnt need a separate seat so to them it looks as if the family just had bought an extra seat which is ok.

So: the family had not informed Delta how they was going to use that seat.
BUT: i still think delta could have solved this easily by having the child in a parent lap when starting and lsnding snd then let it move during flight as any passenger can.

 

[Arctish]

Ahem, if the name was not changed, that is on Delta, too. They should have put the child's name on the ticket when they booked the earlier flight for the teenager.

And as the father said, they went through multiple check-points with two young children and two car seats for the two airplanes seats they paid for.

Delta fucked up again, even before they started threatening these parents with taking away their children.

Ahem, ahem. The family bought a new ticket, they didnt change the ticket they already had bought. That is on the family not delta.
And why should security have acted? The child didnt need a separate seat so to them it looks as if the family just had bought an extra seat which is ok.

So: the family had not informed Delta how they was going to use that seat.
BUT: i still think delta could have solved this easily by having the child in a parent lap when starting and lsnding snd then let it move during flight as any passenger can.

I think Delta could have solved the problem by assigning the seat to the child. They were going to put someone else's name into the computer when they gave the seat to a standby passenger, right? So why not just enter the child's name into the system? The seat had been purchased by his family and a two year old is supposed to have their own seat, and it would have avoided a needless ruckus with a paying passenger.

 

[RavenSky]

Ahem Ahem Ahem

Nope. It is on Delta:

The dispute involves several rules:

> Federal law requires each passenger 18 and older to show identification that matches the name on the boarding pass. Children under 18 are not required to show identification to board a flight. (This is where the conflict gets murky. Because the Schear family had bought a ticket for Mason but wanted to use the seat for their 2-year-old son, there was no way for the flight attendant to prove that the child was not Mason.)
>Delta rules say a child younger than 2 may travel on the lap of an adult. If one adult brings two infants, the adult must buy a ticket and put the second child in “an approved safety seat.” Children who are 2 or older must be put in a child safety seat.
>The FAA “strongly urges” parents to put young children in a “child safety restraint system.” The federal agency says, “Your arms aren’t capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.”
>FAA rules also say that an airline cannot keep an adult from using a child seat for their child.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-delta-child-seat-20170504-story.html

Furthermore, when the parents bought the 5th ticket, that would be two tickets in Mason's name for the same day from the same airport to the same destination. That should have sent up red flags with Delta in this day and age of "terrorist" security theater. Delta failed to change the name on the fourth ticket for the later flight, &/or failed to point out to the parents that the younger child could not use the ticket. Further, Delta and/or airport security checked these parents and their two young children with car seats through and boarded them. Delta screwed up and the flight crew was looking for excuses to boot them (with no refund!!) so they could take the seats. That is just straight up theft.

 

[RavenSky]

I think Delta could have solved the problem by assigning the seat to the child. They were going to put someone else's name into the computer when they gave the seat to a standby passenger, right? So why not just enter the child's name into the system? The seat had been purchased by his family and a two year old is supposed to have their own seat, and it would have avoided a needless ruckus with a paying passenger.

Exactly.

Moreover, since minors aren't even required to show ID, the only way the flight crew or the security they called even knew that the two-year old wasn't Mason is because the parents were being completely honest. They weren't in any way trying to scam anyone. They paid for four seats, but Delta tried to steal one back and ultimately stole back all four using threats against the parents' children

 

[coloradoatheist]

Ahem Ahem Ahem

Nope. It is on Delta:

The dispute involves several rules:

> Federal law requires each passenger 18 and older to show identification that matches the name on the boarding pass. Children under 18 are not required to show identification to board a flight. (This is where the conflict gets murky. Because the Schear family had bought a ticket for Mason but wanted to use the seat for their 2-year-old son, there was no way for the flight attendant to prove that the child was not Mason.)
>Delta rules say a child younger than 2 may travel on the lap of an adult. If one adult brings two infants, the adult must buy a ticket and put the second child in “an approved safety seat.” Children who are 2 or older must be put in a child safety seat.
>The FAA “strongly urges” parents to put young children in a “child safety restraint system.” The federal agency says, “Your arms aren’t capable of holding your child securely, especially during unexpected turbulence.”
>FAA rules also say that an airline cannot keep an adult from using a child seat for their child.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-delta-child-seat-20170504-story.html

Furthermore, when the parents bought the 5th ticket, that would be two tickets in Mason's name for the same day from the same airport to the same destination. That should have sent up red flags with Delta in this day and age of "terrorist" security theater. Delta failed to change the name on the fourth ticket for the later, &/or failed to point out to the parents that the younger child could not use the ticket. Further, Delta and/or airport security checked these parents and their two young children with car seats through and boarded them. Delta screwed up and the flight crew was looking for excuses to boot them (with no refund!!) so they could take the seats. That is just straight up theft.

With that I agree, except for the last sentence. It was a mixup and not theft, they thought he had flown out. Though if the second article is true, the first one left out details, then Delta did screw up.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I need to stop staying up late for these, but there is needs to be more detail, because the father was still probably in the wrong since tickets are non-refundable and non-transferable without paying a change fee for the ticket.

 

[TV and credit cards]

So it was Delta's turn. That spreads the disdain around. Takes some of the focus off United. One, maybe two more of these stories (barring anything extra juicy) and they'll hardly be worthy of more than a passing glance with your morning coffee.
Looking long term, this is probably the best financial strategy for the airlines to take. Then they can quietly go back to business as usual squeezing every dime they can out of the business model and we'll stop caring about people getting screwed over/physically removed from aircraft.
I mean, what are y'all gonna do, take the bullet train? I hear you can go from LA to San Francisco in as little as twelve years.

 

[laughing dog]

Let me get this straight. The flight is overbooked. Delta has people with tickets who are not on board. Their solution is to kick off people with tickets in order to replace them with other people with tickets.

Can someone explain to me how this makes sense?

 

[RavenSky]

Let me get this straight. The flight is overbooked. Delta has people with tickets who are not on board. Their solution is to kick off people with tickets in order to replace them with other people with tickets.

Can someone explain to me how this makes sense?

It sounds to me like they tried to strong-arm this family into carrying one or both of their children on their laps to free up one or two seats for those standby passengers in spite of the fact that the parents had paid for all four seats. It also sounds like they tried to use the excuse of the 2-year old not being "Mason" even though Delta had no way of knowing that in advance because they are not allowed to demand ID for a minor. (The parents were upfront and honest about it, clearly not realizing this would be Delta's excuse for stealing the seat the family had paid for)

There is no mention anywhere - by the parents or by Delta - of Delta offering to reimburse the parents for the 4th seat as part of Delta's demand that the parents hold the child on their laps. This is why I say it was a straight up theft.

What is even worse is that even when the parents backed down, and agreed to give up the seat they paid for and hold the child on their laps, the flight crew / security refused AND refused to reimburse the family for four tickets now. So Delta got double-paid for FOUR tickets on that flight, and would have gotten away with it except for the recent bad publicity.

 

[braces_for_impact]

There's an assload of regulations when you fly, and the one with the power is the one that has access to those regulations, understands them, and most importantly, can selectively decide to enforce them based on the company's interests at the time.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Let me get this straight. The flight is overbooked. Delta has people with tickets who are not on board. Their solution is to kick off people with tickets in order to replace them with other people with tickets.

Can someone explain to me how this makes sense?

This is where the confusion is and we need to understand what happened exactly. Even if I buy a ticket for a flight, but I don't go into the airport and check in for the flight at some point the airline is going to put someone else in my spot when I haven't checked in. The 18 year old appears to have never checked in to the flight so they see a no show and at that point they put in a standby passenger.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Let me get this straight. The flight is overbooked. Delta has people with tickets who are not on board. Their solution is to kick off people with tickets in order to replace them with other people with tickets.

Can someone explain to me how this makes sense?

This is where the confusion is and we need to understand what happened exactly. Even if I buy a ticket for a flight, but I don't go into the airport and check in for the flight at some point the airline is going to put someone else in my spot when I haven't checked in. The 18 year old appears to have never checked in to the flight so they see a no show and at that point they put in a standby passenger.

The article is fucking crystal clear. The 2 year old wasn't allowed to fly in a seat that was reserved under the their 18 yr old son's name. This is an absolutely ridiculous adhering to the 'letter of the law' instead of the spirit of the law.

And seriously, fuck whomever threatened to jail the parents and lose the kids, seriously what the fuck is wrong with that person and have they been suspended (or fired) yet? At worst, the family made a clerical error.

If it was me, I would have bluffed and told them to unboard my two year old. That I'd order a ticket for the child once on the ground in California and they could fly back. This could have potentially put Delta on the defensive, telling me that I can't leave the child at the airport. "I'm complying with your instructions that they can't fly."

 

[coloradoatheist]

This is where the confusion is and we need to understand what happened exactly. Even if I buy a ticket for a flight, but I don't go into the airport and check in for the flight at some point the airline is going to put someone else in my spot when I haven't checked in. The 18 year old appears to have never checked in to the flight so they see a no show and at that point they put in a standby passenger.

The article is fucking crystal clear. The 2 year old wasn't allowed to fly in a seat that was reserved under the their 18 yr old son's name. This is an absolutely ridiculous adhering to the 'letter of the law' instead of the spirit of the law.

And seriously, fuck whomever threatened to jail the parents and lose the kids, seriously what the fuck is wrong with that person and have they been suspended (or fired) yet? At worst, the family made a clerical error.

If it was me, I would have bluffed and told them to unboard my two year old. That I'd order a ticket for the child once on the ground in California and they could fly back. This could have potentially put Delta on the defensive, telling me that I can't leave the child at the airport. "I'm complying with your instructions that they can't fly."

I agree with you on the last part and that's why Delta apologized and rembursed them, but yes when he went to book his 18 year old's flight he also needed to pay the change fee to have the name changed on the ticket too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The article is fucking crystal clear. The 2 year old wasn't allowed to fly in a seat that was reserved under the their 18 yr old son's name. This is an absolutely ridiculous adhering to the 'letter of the law' instead of the spirit of the law.

And seriously, fuck whomever threatened to jail the parents and lose the kids, seriously what the fuck is wrong with that person and have they been suspended (or fired) yet? At worst, the family made a clerical error.

If it was me, I would have bluffed and told them to unboard my two year old. That I'd order a ticket for the child once on the ground in California and they could fly back. This could have potentially put Delta on the defensive, telling me that I can't leave the child at the airport. "I'm complying with your instructions that they can't fly."

I agree with you on the last part and that's why Delta apologized and rembursed them, but yes when he went to book his 18 year old's flight he also needed to pay the change fee to have the name changed on the ticket too.

A fucking clerical error. This wasn't some sort of $39 budget airline ticket to fly to Tampa. These were expensive tickets on a very long flight. There was a clerical mistake made in good faith, and the security implications were negligible.

These people aren't just owed a refund for the tickets, they are owed for the gross inconvenience for what they went through.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I agree with you on the last part and that's why Delta apologized and rembursed them, but yes when he went to book his 18 year old's flight he also needed to pay the change fee to have the name changed on the ticket too.

A fucking clerical error. This wasn't some sort of $39 budget airline ticket to fly to Tampa. These were expensive tickets on a very long flight. There was a clerical mistake made in good faith, and the security implications were negligible.

These people aren't just owed a refund for the tickets, they are owed for the gross inconvenience for what they went through.

According to Delta's website her, it's a $200 change fee. It wasn't a clerical error, it was changing passenger names. And Delta might have waived that fee if they had since they were buying a new ticket

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/ticket-changes-refunds/ticket-changes.html

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A fucking clerical error. This wasn't some sort of $39 budget airline ticket to fly to Tampa. These were expensive tickets on a very long flight. There was a clerical mistake made in good faith, and the security implications were negligible.

These people aren't just owed a refund for the tickets, they are owed for the gross inconvenience for what they went through.

According to Delta's website her, it's a $200 change fee. It wasn't a clerical error, it was changing passenger names. And Delta might have waived that fee if they had since they were buying a new ticket

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/ticket-changes-refunds/ticket-changes.html

Funny how none of this crucial stuff came up while they were checking in, going through security, or boarding!

 

[coloradoatheist]

According to Delta's website her, it's a $200 change fee. It wasn't a clerical error, it was changing passenger names. And Delta might have waived that fee if they had since they were buying a new ticket

http://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US/traveling-with-us/ticket-changes-refunds/ticket-changes.html

Funny how none of this crucial stuff came up while they were checking in, going through security, or boarding!

That's what I was trying to understand. there was two options. They checked in with 3 seats and everybody aligns up and the family assumes that buying that ticket was enough. Or your issue with the counter agent actually not checking for the 18 year old's photo id.

 

[laughing dog]

A fucking clerical error. This wasn't some sort of $39 budget airline ticket to fly to Tampa. These were expensive tickets on a very long flight. There was a clerical mistake made in good faith, and the security implications were negligible.

These people aren't just owed a refund for the tickets, they are owed for the gross inconvenience for what they went through.

According to Delta's website her, it's a $200 change fee. It wasn't a clerical error, it was changing passenger names. And Delta might have waived that fee if they had since they were buying a new ticket

That is asinine. There was no change in flight or number of people - the ticket was just being used for a person with a different name.