Manafort Pleads Guilty (was Paul Manafort ready to flip)

[Horatio Parker]

Considering Manafort's behavior thus far, I wouldn't be surprised if he attempts to bamboozle Mueller.

Actually, I'd surprised if he didn't try to bamboozle Mueller.

I don't think Mueller is at risk of getting bamboozled by anyone. He seems to be a hell of a lot more competent than any of the people he's going up against and has amassed a mountain of evidence to back up everything that he's doing.

Manafort may be dumb enough to try and bamboozle him, but it would be a failed attempt where Manafort would quickly be bitch slapped back into line.

Manafort is desperate, not dumb(well, maybe he is dumb, I dunno). He was put in prison as opposed to house arrest behind his witness tampering efforts.

Has he had a true come-to-Jesus moment? Obviously he's not going down with the ship...

 

[phands]

I still think he's banking on a pardon from the orange shitbag.

There's a hearing in half an hour, where the plea deal details should be made public.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I still think he's banking on a pardon from the orange shitbag.

There's a hearing in half an hour, where the plea deal details should be made public.

Why plea if he's getting a pardon? Because he doesn't trust Trump is my guess.

 

[phands]

I still think he's banking on a pardon from the orange shitbag.

There's a hearing in half an hour, where the plea deal details should be made public.

Why plea if he's getting a pardon? Because he doesn't trust Trump is my guess.

That's a great question, and apparently the answer is complex, as explained by a Lawyer on last night's Rachel Maddow show. IANAL, so won't even try to explain.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Ah yes, that ridiculous "pardon" thing, where people get away with crime because the President likes them. I still hang on to hope that someday people will see this as wrong.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Ah yes, that ridiculous "pardon" thing, where people get away with crime because the President likes them. I still hang on to hope that someday people will see this as wrong.

The pardon issue hadn't been much of an issue up until Trump.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ah yes, that ridiculous "pardon" thing, where people get away with crime because the President likes them. I still hang on to hope that someday people will see this as wrong.

I think it was originally meant as part of the system of checks and balances amongst the three branches of government. The executive branch has a tool which can be used to rein in excesses by an out of control judicial branch and the like.

It just didn't work out as intended.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Ah yes, that ridiculous "pardon" thing, where people get away with crime because the President likes them. I still hang on to hope that someday people will see this as wrong.

The pardon issue hadn't been much of an issue up until Trump.

Most presidents seem to save them until right before they leave office, or wait until there's a huge public demand for the action.

Only Trump hands them out like he's walking around a stadium with a t-shirt gun. But, really, of all the powers he's been abusing so far, this is probably the last one I'd seek to limit.

 

[phands]

Apparently, Manafort will plead guilty to one count of conspiracy against the United States and one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice.

That first one is bad....he needs a pardon.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Ah yes, that ridiculous "pardon" thing, where people get away with crime because the President likes them. I still hang on to hope that someday people will see this as wrong.

I think it was originally meant as part of the system of checks and balances amongst the three branches of government. The executive branch has a tool which can be used to rein in excesses by an out of control judicial branch and the like.

It just didn't work out as intended.

Putting any one person above the law is a bad idea. Perhaps the President should have the power to order judicial review or to order a new trial with new evidence, etc. But at the end of the day, people shouldn't be getting away with crime just because El Presidente says so, with no need for any explanation.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Manafort to cooperate with Mueller.

U.S. President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman Paul Manafort will cooperate with Special Counsel Robert Mueller's probe of Russian election meddling as part of a plea deal, prosecutors told a federal court in Washington on Friday.

Before the plea deal, Dumbass Rudy had this to say regarding the potential of a presidential pardon.

It’s not going to hurt him if he pleads guilty. Usually it helps you get a pardon down the road. It shows you’ve admitted your guilt.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Apparently, Manafort will plead guilty to one count of conspiracy against the United States and one count of conspiracy to obstruct justice..

That's a super sweet deal. Either he's giving them someone very big or he's giving them all ostrich jackets.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Before the plea deal, Dumbass Rudy had this to say regarding the potential of a presidential pardon.

It’s not going to hurt him if he pleads guilty. Usually it helps you get a pardon down the road. It shows you’ve admitted your guilt.

Accepting the pardon is also an admission of guilt.
And while pleading guilty won't hurt him, if it's part of a deal, he's going to basically plead that OTHER people are guilty. Gee, I wonder who? And will Trump reward such behavior?

 

[ElectEngr]

From what I've been told, if you accept a pardon, you loose 5th Amendment Rights on the charges and HAVE TO answer questions. So IF Cheetolini does pardon Manafort, he will have to answer Mueller's questions.

But I'm not in practice.

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

From what I've been told, if you accept a pardon, you loose 5th Amendment Rights on the charges and HAVE TO answer questions. So IF Cheetolini does pardon Manafort, he will have to answer Mueller's questions.

But I'm not in practice.

Later,
ElectEngr

No he doesn't, just say nothing, be found in contempt... pardon... repeat.

 

[Gospel]

From what I've been told, if you accept a pardon, you loose 5th Amendment Rights on the charges and HAVE TO answer questions. So IF Cheetolini does pardon Manafort, he will have to answer Mueller's questions.

But I'm not in practice.

Later,
ElectEngr

No he doesn't, just say nothing, be found in contempt... pardon... repeat.

But I thought after getting pardoned and loosing the 5th Amendment Right you can be held in criminal contempt for not answering questions if doing so prevents the courts from seeking justice. And with Criminal contempt you can get tossed behind bars immediately.

Edit: Oh, I see the rinse repeat but that would definitely lead to impeachment at some point and the courts still win.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trausti's gonna feel so silly...

 

[phands]

It looks like they have Manafort by the short and curlies...

His deal includes co-operation with Mueller!
It is based on the fact that there are state level charges pending in Florida, Virginia and New York for which he cannot be pardoned, so he must co-operate. If the shitgibbon pardons, the state charges are back on. If he doesn't cooperate, the state charges go back on.
He is also forfeiting his homes in the Hamptons, Florida and New York. I wonder if that's because they were bought with the proceeds of crimes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

From what I've been told, if you accept a pardon, you loose 5th Amendment Rights on the charges and HAVE TO answer questions. So IF Cheetolini does pardon Manafort, he will have to answer Mueller's questions.

But I'm not in practice.

Later,
ElectEngr

No he doesn't, just say nothing, be found in contempt... pardon... repeat.

Stepping into court to not answer questions for ten minutes probably means his lawyer will charge for one hour of representing him. _MY_ lawyer charges $300 an hour, and I doubt he's in the league Manafort's defense is in... So, what, $1000/hour? $2000?

So, waiting at the prison for the next pardon to be granted, that's at least an hour of billable. Supervising his client's release, making sure he gets his socks, pocket change, shoelaces...an hour. Then 'prepping' the client to go into court and not talk again.

Eventually, the money is going to run out, even with friends of Manafort collecting a defense fund. A very expensive way to get the Feds to buy your meals.

 

[Horatio Parker]

This blogger seems keen on Trump being taken down, so YMMV.

And at this point, the deal is pardon proof. That was part of keeping the detail secret: to prevent a last minute pardon from Trump undercutting it.

Here’s why this deal is pardon proof:

1.Mueller spent the hour and a half delay in arraignment doing … something. It’s possible Manafort even presented the key parts of testimony Mueller needs from him to the grand jury this morning.

2. The forfeiture in this plea is both criminal and civil, meaning DOJ will be able to get Manafort’s $46 million even with a pardon.

3. Some of the dismissed charges are financial ones that can be charged in various states.

https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/14/the-manafort-plea-is-pardon-proof/