Market Drops 500 pts on Trump Tariff announcement

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the Dow Jones dropped 500 points - from 24,900. Two percentage points. Whoopdedoo. Alarmingly, though, it's down 3300 points from exactly a year ago. No, sorry. I mean it's up 3300 points from exactly a year ago.

Congress needs to pass a law that makes it a Federal Crime to have shit on Obama about the economy and ignored the Dow, but then gets erections because of the Dow whenever it goes up.

Just in case you're implying that the Dow Jones gives me an erection at any time, let me assure you that it does not. <y previous post was a jibe at the noises coming from the chook house. A two per cent drop is nothing to get excited about. The comparison to this time last year was meant to widen the perspective aimed at revealing that drop to be a blip.

And if we were stating the economy was doomed because of this, maybe you have a point, but the drop was specifically related to the announcement of tariffs, indicating the market was sold on the benefit of tariffs.

 

[Axulus]

Jebus... where to go, this thread or a Day Without Stupid thread? (First world problems)

When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!

How in the fuck did this guy get so much money... oh wait... inheritance, stock fraud, really awesome accountants and lawyers. It just doesn't occur to this bully that if he is up against someone who can punch back (read, most of our largest trade partners), they can make with the easy too. Isn't anyone explaining this stuff to him with a pie chart? Protectionism drove the first world into a Great Depression.

God damn, I thought it must be parody so I clicked on your link. Unfucking real.

 

[ruby sparks]

I don't know a lot about Economics, and especially not US economics, but I think I know a bluffer when I see one. Even if he's playing poker and holding two three's, it strikes me that Trump would consider betting hard, as a strategy option, hoping that the other players will fall for it. And if they don't, or it doesn't lead to a win, he'll change tack asap. I got the same feeling when he was talking tough to North Korea.

Plus, it sells with his voter base. Promises, promises. And he's probably already done some suitable trades/bets on the stock market himself in advance of his own announcement. Hands up who thinks Trump actually gives a shit about America unless he benefits.

 

[Elixir]

I don't know a lot about Economics, and especially not US economics, but I think I know a bluffer when I see one. Even if he's playing poker and holding two three's, it strikes me that Trump would consider betting hard, as a strategy option, hoping that the other players will fall for it. And if they don't, or it doesn't lead to a win, he'll change tack asap.

As long as it keeps his treasonous conspiracy off the front page, it's working for him. He couldn't care less about hosing the US - or world - economy in the process.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I don't know a lot about Economics, and especially not US economics, but I think I know a bluffer when I see one. Even if he's playing poker and holding two three's, it strikes me that Trump would consider betting hard, as a strategy option, hoping that the other players will fall for it. And if they don't, or it doesn't lead to a win, he'll change tack asap.

The problem with bluffing comes in when the other players already know what's in your hand. More like playing chess, pretending that the other guy doesn't know he's already taken your queen.

As long as it keeps his treasonous conspiracy off the front page, it's working for him. He couldn't care less about hosing the US - or world - economy in the process.

Eh. He'll blame Obamary. "Eight years of poor management and dependency on foreign trade, has finally come around to bite us in the ass..."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jebus... where to go, this thread or a Day Without Stupid thread? (First world problems)

When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!

How in the fuck did this guy get so much money... oh wait... inheritance, stock fraud, really awesome accountants and lawyers. It just doesn't occur to this bully that if he is up against someone who can punch back (read, most of our largest trade partners), they can make with the easy too. Isn't anyone explaining this stuff to him with a pie chart? Protectionism drove the first world into a Great Depression.

God damn, I thought it must be parody so I clicked on your link. Unfucking real.

I have pondered that Andy Kaufman is playing Trump in his most elaborate sketch ever.

 

[ZiprHead]

Trade wars: Tariffs on bourbon, Harleys and blue jeans

"President Donald Trump declared Friday that "trade wars are good, and easy to win.”

But European Union officials are already planning retaliatory actions, targeting products from politically sensitive Republican-run states, including the imposition of tariffs on Harley-Davidsons made in Speaker Paul Ryan’s home state of Wisconsin; duties on bourbon made in Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s home state of Kentucky; and duties on orange juice from Florida, a critical swing state."

Targeting Trump supporting red states.

 

[Speakpigeon]

Trade wars: Tariffs on bourbon, Harleys and blue jeans

"President Donald Trump declared Friday that "trade wars are good, and easy to win.”

But European Union officials are already planning retaliatory actions, targeting products from politically sensitive Republican-run states, including the imposition of tariffs on Harley-Davidsons made in Speaker Paul Ryan’s home state of Wisconsin; duties on bourbon made in Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell’s home state of Kentucky; and duties on orange juice from Florida, a critical swing state."

Targeting Trump supporting red states.

Haven't thought about that! Thanks.

My idea was the EU was bidding its time, going initially for perfunctory retaliation, looking good for public opinion but not much economic bite. So, no, there was more to it.

Still, The retaliation seems reasonably, and carefully, calibrated, targeting only $3.5 billion of U.S goods against Trump's tariffs on the $9.2 billion of E.U steel (from the same link).

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/02/trump-tariffs-world-response-382959
EU officials also said they would roll out the measures quickly without running through a lengthy gauntlet of WTO dispute settlement procedures. Under consideration are 25 percent tariffs on $3.5 billion of goods — one-third steel products, one-third industrial goods and one-third agricultural — to “rebalance” bilateral trade, EU sources said.
<snip>
Of $29.1 billion worth of steel that the United States imported last year, $9.2 billion came from the 28 nations of the Europe Union and neighboring countries

This makes sense. It will give motivation and time for interested Republicans to work the Trump administration. How nasty they could get, we can only guess.
EB

 

[Axulus]

Part of me wants to see a deep and lengthy trade war that triggers a minor global recession and decimates our manufacturing jobs. Trump's base needs to feel some genuine economic misery as a result of this idiot to get it through their thick heads that a populist and anti-free trade is destructive to the interests of the country. It is the only thing that can drop Trump's approval ratings down below the 30% level. They can't be reached intellectually so the only thing left to reach them is direct misery caused by the person they support (which most of us have seen coming).

On another note, can't congress pass a law to invalidate Trump's tariffs? Are they finally going to grow a pair or are they going to continue to be his sycophant?

 

[Speakpigeon]

On another note, can't congress pass a law to invalidate Trump's tariffs? Are they finally going to grow a pair or are they going to continue to be his sycophant?

I think we can take these guys to be real nasty, at least a good chunk of them. The question is whether they're going to hurt because of Trump's tariffs, how much, and eventually if it's going to be worth punching Trump in the nose, just for a start.

The tariffs are very specific, not on such a big scale relative to the overall U.S economy, and the E.U retaliation is proportionate. So, for now at least, only a minority of Republicans may feel so very aggrieved that they will want to hurt Trump.
EB

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Canada is up in arms seeing they have stringent labor and environmental laws. Trump is burning bridges with our allies for Russia. Impeachment is necessary at this point.

 

[Hermit]

The US steel industry produced about 90 million metric tons of steel and employed about 130,000 people to do so. At the same time the USA imported just over 30 million tons of steel. If the proposed tariff gets through Congress and if it basically shuts off all steel imports one could expect an increase of almost 32,000 in that branch of the economy. That's pretty much a best case scenario as far as employment is concerned. To put it into perspective, is represents a 0.02% increase in national employment.

On the downside every consumer of products that contain steel pays for those newly created jobs, for, given the above scenario, the 25% tariff rate means at least 30 million tons of steel used in the US will be 25% more expensive.

The rich don't give a fuck, of course. The modest drops in the DJ and S&P indices make that quite clear.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Trump is now threatening EU car imports.

Which leads me to an obvious question... just how much power does Putin have over Trump. These tariffs benefit very few... and the US the least. Russia is the only nation that benefits from these tariffs as they seem less aimed to deal with economics as they are with allies and groups that the Russians are at odds with.

 

[Elixir]

... leads me to an obvious question... just how much power does Putin have over Trump.

Cheato has given up even trying to hide the puppet strings. Uncle Vlad has ULTIMATE power over him. If there was certainty that it would be proven one way or another, I would eagerly bet the farm that every word of the Steele Dossier is gospel truth.

 

[barbos]

Trump is now threatening EU car imports.

Which leads me to an obvious question... just how much power does Putin have over Trump. These tariffs benefit very few... and the US the least. Russia is the only nation that benefits from these tariffs as they seem less aimed to deal with economics as they are with allies and groups that the Russians are at odds with.

If Putin had actual power, he would have prevented aluminum and steel tariffs. Banning import cars is OK, since Russia does not export any of them to US.

 

[Elixir]

If Putin had actual power, he would have prevented aluminum and steel tariffs. Banning import cars is OK, since Russia does not export any of them to US.

You must be on drugs. Why would Putin do anything to prevent America from degrading its economy, world stature and influence?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

If Putin had actual power, he would have prevented aluminum and steel tariffs. Banning import cars is OK, since Russia does not export any of them to US.

Trump has refused to recognize sanctions on Russia, even tried to give spy HQs back. But he is spitting in the face of the EU and Canada/Mexico. IE Trump is alienating America from our allies. That works in Putin's favor.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Meanwhile stocks are going up upon baseless hopes that the tariffs will be nixed because people everywhere (except in the Kremlin) are saying they are a bad idea.

 

[Malintent]

Part of me wants to see a deep and lengthy trade war that triggers a minor global recession and decimates our manufacturing jobs. Trump's base needs to feel some genuine economic misery as a result of this idiot to get it through their thick heads that a populist and anti-free trade is destructive to the interests of the country. It is the only thing that can drop Trump's approval ratings down below the 30% level. They can't be reached intellectually so the only thing left to reach them is direct misery caused by the person they support (which most of us have seen coming).

On another note, can't congress pass a law to invalidate Trump's tariffs? Are they finally going to grow a pair or are they going to continue to be his sycophant?

suuuure... like how performing a test of the power of prayer reduces religiosity when the results are seen.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Part of me wants to see a deep and lengthy trade war that triggers a minor global recession and decimates our manufacturing jobs. Trump's base needs to feel some genuine economic misery as a result of this idiot to get it through their thick heads that a populist and anti-free trade is destructive to the interests of the country. It is the only thing that can drop Trump's approval ratings down below the 30% level. They can't be reached intellectually so the only thing left to reach them is direct misery caused by the person they support (which most of us have seen coming).

On another note, can't congress pass a law to invalidate Trump's tariffs? Are they finally going to grow a pair or are they going to continue to be his sycophant?

suuuure... like how performing a test of the power of prayer reduces religiosity when the results are seen.

Yeah, we are talking about people that thought the economy was worse in 2016 than it was in 2008. Or cried for Republican leadership after the greatest economic boom is US history under Clinton.