Mierda is about to hit the ventilador

[untermensche]

Your dinosaur ideas are out of date by about 60 years.

You mean Maduro's ideas are "out of date by about 60 years"?
And of course, the effect of his ideas has an even older antecedent; Venezuela is now in full "let them eat cake" mode.

A well stocked bakery, but no bread, because bread is price-controlled and can't be made at the price is has to be sold for. But people have a nice selection of pastries. If they can afford the hyperinflated prices, that is.

Are US ideas out of date because it's economy crashed in 2008 and about a trillion in wealth instantly disappeared?

Nations have troubles.

It doesn't mean you abandon principles.

 

[Derec]

Are US ideas out of date because it's economy crashed in 2008 and about a trillion in wealth instantly disappeared?

I do not recall not being able to buy bread.

Or toilet paper being rationed.

Chavez/Maduro folly in three lines.

Economics 101, that is.

Nations have troubles.
It doesn't mean you abandon principles.

If it's the principles that caused you the troubles, perhaps you should.

 

[untermensche]

I do not recall not being able to buy bread.

I guess your knowledge of US history doesn't extend to the 1930's.

 

[Derec]

I do not recall not being able to buy bread.

I guess your knowledge of US history doesn't extend to the 1930's.

My recollection certainly doesn't extend that far, and besides, you specifically talked about 2008 crisis. That's one helluva goalpost shift!

 

[untermensche]

I guess your knowledge of US history doesn't extend to the 1930's.

My recollection certainly doesn't extend that far, and besides, you specifically talked about 2008 crisis. That's one helluva goalpost shift!

Talking about the many times the US economy has collapsed is not changing the goalposts.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You utterly missed the point.

I was talking about their influence on his ideas.

No you miss the point.

Your dinosaur ideas are out of date by about 60 years.

Tell that to Chavez.

 

[untermensche]

No you miss the point.

Your dinosaur ideas are out of date by about 60 years.

Tell that to Chavez.

Like your ideas, he's dead.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Tell that to Chavez.

Like your ideas, he's dead.

My ideas?? I'm saying that Chavez was listening to Marx and Lenin in formulating the policy that ran Venezuela off the rails.

 

[untermensche]

Like your ideas, he's dead.

My ideas?? I'm saying that Chavez was listening to Marx and Lenin in formulating the policy that ran Venezuela off the rails.

Your anti-Communist insanity is 60 years out of date.

Chavez was a follower of Bolivar, not Marx.

 

[Derec]

Your anti-Communist insanity is 60 years out of date.
Chavez was a follower of Bolivar, not Marx.

Simon Bolivar was a 19th century independence leader whose name Chavez adopted for his "21st century socialism" project but Chavez' economic insanity has nothing otherwise to do with him.

 

[untermensche]

Your anti-Communist insanity is 60 years out of date.
Chavez was a follower of Bolivar, not Marx.

Simon Bolivar was a 19th century independence leader whose name Chavez adopted for his "21st century socialism" project but Chavez' economic insanity has nothing otherwise to do with him.

Is the US system economic insanity?

It has crashed more often and more severely than the current Venezuelan system ever has.

And Chavez took more economic ideas from Bolivar than he took from Marx. To call Chavez a Marxist or Leninist is delusion.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Simon Bolivar was a 19th century independence leader whose name Chavez adopted for his "21st century socialism" project but Chavez' economic insanity has nothing otherwise to do with him.

Is the US system economic insanity?

It has crashed more often and more severely than the current Venezuelan system ever has.

And Chavez took more economic ideas from Bolivar than he took from Marx. To call Chavez a Marxist or Leninist is delusion.

More often only because it's been around much longer.

More severely? No.

 

[untermensche]

Is the US system economic insanity?

It has crashed more often and more severely than the current Venezuelan system ever has.

And Chavez took more economic ideas from Bolivar than he took from Marx. To call Chavez a Marxist or Leninist is delusion.

More often only because it's been around much longer.

More severely? No.

Again, your knowledge doesn't seem to extend to the 1930's.

It took a long time and a world war for the US to get it's economy moving again.

Unfortunately for Venezuela it doesn't have the freedom the US had since it is under constant economic attack from without and within.

So it certainly can't be expected to fix it's economic problems even in the time period it took the US.

 

[ZiprHead]

You guys may remember from the other Venezuela thread that I have a nephew with a Venezuelan girlfriend and they were planning to go there this summer. They just announced they are canceling the trip due to the unrest there.

 

[Jayjay]

More often only because it's been around much longer.

More severely? No.

Again, your knowledge doesn't seem to extend to the 1930's.

It took a long time and a world war for the US to get it's economy moving again.

Unfortunately for Venezuela it doesn't have the freedom the US had since it is under constant economic attack from without and within.

So it certainly can't be expected to fix it's economic problems even in the time period it took the US.

The US got out of recession before it joined the war:

As for being under "economic attack", that's just bullshit. Of course if you start nationalizing industries, foreign investments will be harder to come by. And only one who was attacking the Venezuelan economy from within was Chavez.

 

[untermensche]

Again, your knowledge doesn't seem to extend to the 1930's.

It took a long time and a world war for the US to get it's economy moving again.

Unfortunately for Venezuela it doesn't have the freedom the US had since it is under constant economic attack from without and within.

So it certainly can't be expected to fix it's economic problems even in the time period it took the US.

The US got out of recession before it joined the war:

As for being under "economic attack", that's just bullshit. Of course if you start nationalizing industries, foreign investments will be harder to come by. And only one who was attacking the Venezuelan economy from within was Chavez.

Did the US abandon it's system because it crashed?

Does it ever consider changing it's system every time it crashes?

I see no reason Venezuela should change any of it's principles just because it's economy is struggling.

And if people don't think Venezuela has been under constant economic warfare for years they are simply naïve children that don't know history or the way the US operates in South America. You do what you are told or you are attacked. Time and time again. Cuba, Haiti, Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, Brazil, and Venezuela.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

More often only because it's been around much longer.

More severely? No.

Again, your knowledge doesn't seem to extend to the 1930's.

It took a long time and a world war for the US to get it's economy moving again.

Unfortunately for Venezuela it doesn't have the freedom the US had since it is under constant economic attack from without and within.

So it certainly can't be expected to fix it's economic problems even in the time period it took the US.

What happened to the US in the 30s is nowhere near as bad as what is happening to Venezuela now. The lines you picture from the 30s were people after handouts, not the whole population like it is in Venezuela.

- - - Updated - - -

The US got out of recession before it joined the war:

As for being under "economic attack", that's just bullshit. Of course if you start nationalizing industries, foreign investments will be harder to come by. And only one who was attacking the Venezuelan economy from within was Chavez.

Did the US abandon it's system because it crashed?

Does it ever consider changing it's system every time it crashes?

I see no reason Venezuela should change any of it's principles just because it's economy is struggling.

And if people don't think Venezuela has been under constant economic warfare for years they are simply naïve children that don't know history or the way the US operates in South America. You do what you are told or you are attacked. Time and time again. Cuba, Haiti, Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, Brazil, and Venezuela.

It is known that there will be swings in our system. Those aren't ideal but we haven't found anything that works better.

What's happening in Venezuela is the inevitable result of their policies and the government's actions keep making things worse.

Totally different situations.

 

[untermensche]

It is known that there will be swings in our system. Those aren't ideal but we haven't found anything that works better.

What's happening in Venezuela is the inevitable result of their policies and the government's actions keep making things worse.

Totally different situations.

That's just some massive rationalization to expect Venezuela to act differently than the US acted every time it's system crashed.

 

[Barbarian]

That's just some massive rationalization to expect Venezuela to act differently than the US acted every time it's system crashed.

People flock to the USA, illegally if they need to. Pretty much nobody tries to relocate to socialist shitholes like Venezuela. When I was a kid, people kept dying at the border trying to flee from our socialist, soon to be communist paradise to Yugoslavia because once there they would have been allowed to continue to Italy and finally the USA. That is all that matters when judging the relative merits of the two 'systems'. So yes, Venezuela should change its system, while the USA should merely adjust it here and there.

 

[Derec]

Is the US system economic insanity?

Nope.

It has crashed more often and more severely than the current Venezuelan system ever has.

Nothing ever in the US history even begins to approach what is happening in Venezuela right now.

And Chavez took more economic ideas from Bolivar than he took from Marx.

What ideas of Simon Bolivar did Chavez take? Did Bolivar propose having a three-tiered exchange rate? Or price controls? Or not paying international contractors? Or not investing in oil exploration?

To call Chavez a Marxist or Leninist is delusion.

Perhaps, but he is closer to than than he is to the historical Simon Bolivar (as opposed to Simon Bolivar of Chavista faith).

- - - Updated - - -

That's just some massive rationalization to expect Venezuela to act differently than the US acted every time it's system crashed.

It's comparing a paper cut to getting a limb chopped off.