Mierda is about to hit the ventilador

[Derec]

Did the US abandon it's system because it crashed?
Does it ever consider changing it's system every time it crashes?

We do consider different reforms when there are crashes, sure. Refusing to do so is just stupid.

I see no reason Venezuela should change any of it's principles just because it's economy is struggling.

Problems with Venezuelan economy are much more fundamental than they ever were with US.
Price controls lead to shortages. Currency controls lead to a currency black market. Fighting the private sector leads to it being diminished and economy more dependent on oil. Starving PDVSA of capital leads to production shrinking.

And if people don't think Venezuela has been under constant economic warfare for years they are simply naïve children that don't know history or the way the US operates in South America.

US is by far Venezuela's biggest trading partner. Some "economic warfare"!

 

[Derec]

Talking about the many times the US economy has collapsed is not changing the goalposts.

You are the one who mentioned 2008, and I replied to that. Please try to keep up.

 

[untermensche]

We do consider different reforms when there are crashes, sure. Refusing to do so is just stupid.

So you mean Venezuela is behaving exactly as the US behaves.

I'm glad you understand that.

I see no reason Venezuela should change any of it's principles just because it's economy is struggling.

Problems with Venezuelan economy are much more fundamental than they ever were with US.

The US system is an incredibly unstable system that constantly crashes. One massive crash after another.

The US still hasn't recovered from the last crash. Millions are still out of work and millions own homes that aren't worth what they paid for it.

It is the most incredible arrogance, near insanity, for the US to be criticizing anyone.

And if people don't think Venezuela has been under constant economic warfare for years they are simply naïve children that don't know history or the way the US operates in South America.

US is by far Venezuela's biggest trading partner. Some "economic warfare"!

Which only makes economic warfare easier.

Do you have any knowledge of the economic warfare that took place in Chile because the US didn't like the way it's elected government conducted business? It is very hard to learn what the US does because it does not tell it's citizens.

Every time we are able to find the truth we see massive US malfeasance in the region.

Only naïve children think it has suddenly stopped somehow.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is known that there will be swings in our system. Those aren't ideal but we haven't found anything that works better.

What's happening in Venezuela is the inevitable result of their policies and the government's actions keep making things worse.

Totally different situations.

That's just some massive rationalization to expect Venezuela to act differently than the US acted every time it's system crashed.

We didn't fuck things up like Venezuela has. You also missed the fact that what we are seeing down there is the inevitable consequence of the approach they have taken.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The US system is an incredibly unstable system that constantly crashes. One massive crash after another.

You don't know what a crash is. There is at most two crashes in the last 100 years and neither holds a candle to what has happened to Venezuela.

 

[untermensche]

That's just some massive rationalization to expect Venezuela to act differently than the US acted every time it's system crashed.

We didn't fuck things up like Venezuela has. You also missed the fact that what we are seeing down there is the inevitable consequence of the approach they have taken.

More unsupported rationalizations.

What is inevitable is the US system will crash again soon. And it will be worse than the last time.

 

[arkirk]

Nothing to do with socialism. More to do with relying too much on one thing to keep the country going.

It is clear that relying on oil only has a lot to do with what continues to go wrong in Venezuela. We are beginning to see the edges of an unraveling in Saudi Arabia, which nobody can deny is an abysmal corrupt and brutal dictatorship....kind of everything a country should never be.

 

[Axulus]

We didn't fuck things up like Venezuela has. You also missed the fact that what we are seeing down there is the inevitable consequence of the approach they have taken.

More unsupported rationalizations.

What is inevitable is the US system will crash again soon. And it will be worse than the last time.

You live in a fantasy land if you think recessions wouldn't occur in whatever system you think is best.

You are also deluded to think that what has happened in the US is anywhere near as bad as what is going on in venezuela (hyper inflation, soon to be soverign debt default, empty shelves, 70%+ poverty rate, violent crime more than 10x the rate in US). We are in the midst of what a failed state looks like. You really should get out more and travel to other countries, it just might give you a different perspective.

 

[untermensche]

Nothing to do with socialism. More to do with relying too much on one thing to keep the country going.

It is clear that relying on oil only has a lot to do with what continues to go wrong in Venezuela. We are beginning to see the edges of an unraveling in Saudi Arabia, which nobody can deny is an abysmal corrupt and brutal dictatorship....kind of everything a country should never be.

The fact that Saudi Arabia is a dictatorship is another reason Venezuela is struggling.

They are keeping the price of oil down to harm both Russia and Venezuela.

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More unsupported rationalizations.

What is inevitable is the US system will crash again soon. And it will be worse than the last time.

You live in a fantasy land if you think recessions wouldn't occur in whatever system you think is best.

You are also deluded to think that what has happened in the US is anywhere near as bad as what is going on in venezuela (hyper inflation, soon to be soverign debt default, empty shelves, 70%+ poverty rate, violent crime more than 10x the rate in US). We are in the midst of what a failed state looks like. You really should get out more and travel to other countries, it just might give you a different perspective.

Again, the US isn't under constant economic warfare from within and without.

That is the only difference.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Ya, it really sucks how the problems in Venezuala are the fault of everybody but the Venezualans. If only they were white people, they'd have the intellectual capacity to have moral agency and be able to make their own decisions. But, I guess that burden is on someone else.

 

[untermensche]

Ya, it really sucks how the problems in Venezuala are the fault of everybody but the Venezualans. If only they were white people, they'd have the intellectual capacity to have moral agency and be able to make their own decisions. But, I guess that burden is on someone else.

They are trying to stabilize their economy.

Just like the US tried for years after the Great Depression.

What really sucks is the double standards people apply simply because they are some kind of mindless zombie that follows the US government line and somehow thinks Venezuela is an enemy.

 

[arkirk]

Ya, it really sucks how the problems in Venezuala are the fault of everybody but the Venezualans. If only they were white people, they'd have the intellectual capacity to have moral agency and be able to make their own decisions. But, I guess that burden is on someone else.

They are trying to stabilize their economy.

Just like the US tried for years after the Great Depression.

What really sucks is the double standards people apply simply because they are some kind of mindless zombie that follows the US government line and somehow thinks Venezuela is an enemy.

Their problems also seem to have a strong connection to the "American Interest Section. Once a country is torn up, its resources plundered, its infrastructure allowed to rot, it environment polluted and all opponents of the empire either killed or discredited, it takes a long, long, time to recover from that. The U.S. has lots of diplomatic, clandestine, and economic tools and has applied these toward dominating that country and bringing about regime change. Predatory capital simply cannot let any country with resources run itself.

 

[Axulus]

Good summary on the current state of affairs in Venezuela:

In the last two years Venezuela has experienced the kind of implosion that hardly ever occurs in a middle-income country like it outside of war. Mortality rates are skyrocketing ; one public service after another is collapsing; triple-digit inflation has left more than 70 percent of the population in poverty ; an unmanageable crime wave keeps people locked i ndoors at night ; shoppers have to stand in line for hours to buy food; babies die in large numbers for lack of simple, inexpensive medicines and equipment in hospitals, as do the elderly and those suffering from chronic illnesses.

Check out the whole thing here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/05/venezuela-is-falling-apart/481755/

 

[Axulus]

Ya, it really sucks how the problems in Venezuala are the fault of everybody but the Venezualans. If only they were white people, they'd have the intellectual capacity to have moral agency and be able to make their own decisions. But, I guess that burden is on someone else.

They are trying to stabilize their economy.

Just like the US tried for years after the Great Depression.

What really sucks is the double standards people apply simply because they are some kind of mindless zombie that follows the US government line and somehow thinks Venezuela is an enemy.

What are they doing to try to stabilize the economy? Please be specific.

They shouldn't follow the US government but rather sound academic advice, which has already been provided previously:

Eliminate currency controls
Eliminate price controls
Appeal to the international community for immediate aid
Default on the debt and work on a settlement, to be paid back when things are back on track
Stop attacking business owners and businesses
Stop the printing presses and get inflation under control (or adopt a stable currency like the Yen, dollar, euro, or pound).
Release the political prisoners
Let the democratically elected government (which received almost 2/3 of the seats in the legislature) actually pass some laws.

That would be a brilliant start to stabalize the economy

 

[untermensche]

That article is superficial.

The real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes scarce. Saying the magic words "price controls" isn't any kind of answer.

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They are trying to stabilize their economy.

Just like the US tried for years after the Great Depression.

What really sucks is the double standards people apply simply because they are some kind of mindless zombie that follows the US government line and somehow thinks Venezuela is an enemy.

What are they doing to try to stabilize the economy? Please be specific.

Some of what they are doing is in the article you posted.

I guess you didn't read it.

 

[Axulus]

That article is superficial.

The real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes scarce. Saying the magic words "price controls" isn't any kind of answer.

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What are they doing to try to stabilize the economy? Please be specific.

Some of what they are doing is in the article you posted.

I guess you didn't read it.

You mean like sending in the secret police when someone is accused of "hoarding" certain items like toilet paper? Things like that?

 

[untermensche]

That article is superficial.

The real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes scarce. Saying the magic words "price controls" isn't any kind of answer.

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Some of what they are doing is in the article you posted.

I guess you didn't read it.

You mean like sending in the secret police when someone is accused of "hoarding" certain items like toilet paper? Things like that?

Again, the real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes so scarce.

The government isn't making it.

 

[Axulus]

You mean like sending in the secret police when someone is accused of "hoarding" certain items like toilet paper? Things like that?

Again, the real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes so scarce.

The government isn't making it.

The article explained that, the price controls made it so that making toilet paper or importing toilet paper results in losing money, so no business will supply it.

 

[untermensche]

Again, the real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes so scarce.

The government isn't making it.

The article explained that, the price controls made it so that making toilet paper or importing toilet paper results in losing money, so no business will supply it.

Oh those magic words "price controls". So predictable these lovers of US malfeasance.

You've gotten to the bottom of nothing.

 

[arkirk]

That article is superficial.

The real story is how toilet paper suddenly becomes scarce. Saying the magic words "price controls" isn't any kind of answer.

- - - Updated - - -

What are they doing to try to stabilize the economy? Please be specific.

Some of what they are doing is in the article you posted.

I guess you didn't read it.

Something that always gets ignored by the imperialist critics of upstart leftist countries is that they generally start out with an education deficit because the empire does not want them educated. When they pull away from Axulus's Axis of Capital they simply do not have the educated leadership to keep the country out of trouble...especially if the Axis wants to change the regime. It doen't take a lot of covert activity by our CIA to bring about an uprising and regime change. It is obvious that Chavez was as smart as Castro and could guard against threats Meduro simply possibly does not even comprehend. The U.S, has no interest in ever playing fair with these countries...Iran is a classic example and possibly a template for US tampering in Venezuela.