Military coup underway in Turkey - or is it?

[fromderinside]

Erdogan now couping coupers.

 

[Ford]

It's more likely that Erdogan himself staged it, and I'm not saying that even that is very likely.

It is a possibility, though. The Turkish military has some experience with coups. They've even had a couple of "coups by memorandum" where the coup is not violent - the military just steps in, takes over, and issues a statement. Other times the military has stepped in during times of violent uprising and efficiently removed the government.

This one was odd. There was no widespread violence, the AKP is a popular party, and the government was stable and headed towards a referendum on giving the President more power. Not only that, but Erdogan wasn't even in the country when the "coup" started. If the military were bent on overthrowing the government, they'd do it while the President was available to be very publicly arrested.

If I remember correctly, Ergogan has been on a campaign to consolidate his power for years now...purging unsympathetic leaders from the military, taking state control of the media, cracking down on journalists, etc.

Now, after an oddly timed "coup attempt" with an equally fortuitous triumphant return, Erdogan has more or less free reign to round up anyone he deems a threat, including any remaining dissenters among the officer corps, political rivals, and anyone else opposed to his...I guess it is time to start calling it a regime.

 

[crispy]

Apparently now over 2000(!) judges and prosecutors have been arrested also...

 

[barbos]

Few years ago Turkey was doing really well. What the fuck happened?

 

[DrZoidberg]

Apparently now over 2000(!) judges and prosecutors have been arrested also...

It seems we will lose USA, the UK and Turkey to populists. Dark times indeed.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Rule #1 of coups, make sure you are going to succeed before starting the attempt.

There are always risks but you should try to predict the obstacles that would be in the way. The military didn't include the police, which under the Turkish government has swelled its ranks and is virtually an army in itself.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Rule #1 of coups, make sure you are going to succeed before starting the attempt.

Is that what you would tell Tom Cruise when he tried to kill Hitler and take over Germany?

The first bit would be easy as Hitler is dead,. The the next is more difficult since Herr Merkler is firmly at the helm and Cruise doesn't even have German citizenship or any troops behind him.

 

[Jayjay]

Apparently now over 2000(!) judges and prosecutors have been arrested also...

It seems we will lose USA, the UK and Turkey to populists. Dark times indeed.

The islamists in Turkey are in a completely different league than Trump's or Brexit supporters, by far.

 

[whichphilosophy]

It seems we will lose USA, the UK and Turkey to populists. Dark times indeed.

The islamists in Turkey are in a completely different league than Trump's or Brexit supporters, by far.

Once Britain leaves the EU, Turkey can then apply for the vacant position.

 

[DrZoidberg]

It seems we will lose USA, the UK and Turkey to populists. Dark times indeed.

The islamists in Turkey are in a completely different league than Trump's or Brexit supporters, by far.

ha ha lol. They're practically identical. They might as well have been cloned. "Those over there is the problem. We are perfect. Foreign values corrupting our young and raping our women".

The fact that they are so extremely similar is interesting.

 

[whichphilosophy]

The islamists in Turkey are in a completely different league than Trump's or Brexit supporters, by far.

ha ha lol. They're practically identical. They might as well have been cloned. "Those over there is the problem. We are perfect. Foreign values corrupting our young and raping our women".

The fact that they are so extremely similar is interesting.

Not really Turkey wants to join the EU and the UK voted to leave. The BREXIT argument was that Europe was raping UK industry (giving EU grants to large companies so they could then move to Eastern European countries and maximise their profits while creating unemployment in the UK).

 

[DrZoidberg]

ha ha lol. They're practically identical. They might as well have been cloned. "Those over there is the problem. We are perfect. Foreign values corrupting our young and raping our women".

The fact that they are so extremely similar is interesting.

Not really Turkey wants to join the EU and the UK voted to leave. The BREXIT argument was that Europe was raping UK industry (giving EU grants to large companies so they could then move to Eastern European countries and maximise their profits while creating unemployment in the UK).

Aha... so that proves they are different *sarcasm*

 

[whichphilosophy]

Not really Turkey wants to join the EU and the UK voted to leave. The BREXIT argument was that Europe was raping UK industry (giving EU grants to large companies so they could then move to Eastern European countries and maximise their profits while creating unemployment in the UK).

Aha... so that proves they are different *sarcasm*

I think Turkey may be a preferred base, but for good reasons. I found their engineering very professional (Oil and Gas Industries) GEC Alstom opened up some plants there some years ago while it still operated in the UK. They serve different markets. My only complaint is if I end up staying in a 3 star hotel, soft drinks in the minibar have the old fashioned tops but there are no bottle openers anywhere and the housekeeping had to search for these. The good hotels are value for money.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Aha... so that proves they are different *sarcasm*

I think Turkey may be a preferred base, but for good reasons. I found their engineering very professional (Oil and Gas Industries) GEC Alstom opened up some plants there some years ago while it still operated in the UK. They serve different markets. My only complaint is if I end up staying in a 3 star hotel, soft drinks in the minibar have the old fashioned tops but there are no bottle openers anywhere and the housekeeping had to search for these. The good hotels are value for money.

I think Istanbul is just as fun to party in as Berlin, New York and London. I've had a riot in Beyoglu and Istiklal Cadesi. Plenty of pretty slutty Turkish girls who just want to have some fun. Sucks the penis just as well as western girls. That tells me plenty.

Turks in general are obviously as liberal and relaxed as people in any western country. Or that night life could impossibly be supported. Turks know how to have fun in a way Swedes don't. Istanbul is certainly more of a party city than Stockholm ever has been.

Just the fact that they have openly gay saunas dotted around the city. That's not a country groaning under Islamic oppression.

 

[whichphilosophy]

I think Turkey may be a preferred base, but for good reasons. I found their engineering very professional (Oil and Gas Industries) GEC Alstom opened up some plants there some years ago while it still operated in the UK. They serve different markets. My only complaint is if I end up staying in a 3 star hotel, soft drinks in the minibar have the old fashioned tops but there are no bottle openers anywhere and the housekeeping had to search for these. The good hotels are value for money.

I think Istanbul is just as fun to party in as Berlin, New York and London. I've had a riot in Beyoglu and Istiklal Cadesi. Plenty of pretty slutty Turkish girls who just want to have some fun. Sucks the penis just as well as western girls. That tells me plenty.

Turks in general are obviously as liberal and relaxed as people in any western country. Or that night life could impossibly be supported. Turks know how to have fun in a way Swedes don't. Istanbul is certainly more of a party city than Stockholm ever has been.

Just the fact that they have openly gay saunas dotted around the city. That's not a country groaning under Islamic oppression.

Unfortunately I was on tight schedules and would write reports until very early in the morning so I missed out on the fun. Some places are getting quite modern.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If that quote is true, then NAC should move to oust Turkey from NATO.

These idiots in the Erdogan government are going to start WWIII.

Then America needs to work out how it will get it's nuclear bombs out of Turkey.
There are B61 nuclear bombs stored at Incirlik Air Base. It would be catastrophic if they fell into the hands of radical jihadis

They're easy enough to destroy if need be. It's an airbase, they have plenty of things that go boom. Wire up the storage facilities, if the jihadis are coming in detonate. Leave, let Turkey clean up the mess.

- - - Updated - - -

Few years ago Turkey was doing really well. What the fuck happened?

The same thing as always when you have Islamists in power.

 

[Jayjay]

The islamists in Turkey are in a completely different league than Trump's or Brexit supporters, by far.

ha ha lol. They're practically identical. They might as well have been cloned. "Those over there is the problem. We are perfect. Foreign values corrupting our young and raping our women".

The fact that they are so extremely similar is interesting.

Bullshit. Brexit was just a small change in course and hardly that influential. Likewise Trump's support in US is just usual disdain for the establishment candidates, no more harmful than the Tea Party movement (which was pretty harmful in western terms) or Occupy Wall Street. In Turkey, you had mobs of fanatics on the street charging tanks and armed soldiers when El Presidente gives the order, and over 60,000 police, judges, teachers, and other government employees sacked with snap of the fingers. Erdogan is not a "populist" in the same sense of the word as the bumbling politicians in Europe or America.

I think Turkey may be a preferred base, but for good reasons. I found their engineering very professional (Oil and Gas Industries) GEC Alstom opened up some plants there some years ago while it still operated in the UK. They serve different markets. My only complaint is if I end up staying in a 3 star hotel, soft drinks in the minibar have the old fashioned tops but there are no bottle openers anywhere and the housekeeping had to search for these. The good hotels are value for money.

I think Istanbul is just as fun to party in as Berlin, New York and London. I've had a riot in Beyoglu and Istiklal Cadesi. Plenty of pretty slutty Turkish girls who just want to have some fun. Sucks the penis just as well as western girls. That tells me plenty.

Turks in general are obviously as liberal and relaxed as people in any western country. Or that night life could impossibly be supported. Turks know how to have fun in a way Swedes don't. Istanbul is certainly more of a party city than Stockholm ever has been.

Just the fact that they have openly gay saunas dotted around the city. That's not a country groaning under Islamic oppression.

You are living in a typical liberal bubble, thinking that because you once visited the most liberal part of Turkey for a weekend, that the whole country is the same way. Parts of Iran and Afghanistan were fairly liberal in the 1970s also, but that didn't stop them from getting fucked up by lunatics. The freedom-enjoying westernized Turkish youth doesn't stand a chance because they don't have the will or the skill to actually oppose these asshats... they live in the same bubble as you do, and just keep partying and giving blowjobs to occasional Swedish turists and maybe silently cursing to themselves when they find that their bubbles are getting smaller and smaller. But they will never win against an opponent that not only controls the media, the army, the police, and soon the education system, but also has a mob of a million determined followers who are ready to jump under a tank.

 

[barbos]

Few years ago Turkey was doing really well. What the fuck happened?

The same thing as always when you have Islamists in power.

But he is moderate.

 

[DrZoidberg]

ha ha lol. They're practically identical. They might as well have been cloned. "Those over there is the problem. We are perfect. Foreign values corrupting our young and raping our women".

The fact that they are so extremely similar is interesting.

Bullshit. Brexit was just a small change in course and hardly that influential. Likewise Trump's support in US is just usual disdain for the establishment candidates, no more harmful than the Tea Party movement (which was pretty harmful in western terms) or Occupy Wall Street. In Turkey, you had mobs of fanatics on the street charging tanks and armed soldiers when El Presidente gives the order, and over 60,000 police, judges, teachers, and other government employees sacked with snap of the fingers. Erdogan is not a "populist" in the same sense of the word as the bumbling politicians in Europe or America.

Also... not what I said. I said populists won using lies, and the public bought the lies. That's what they have in common. I'm aware that the situation is way worse in Turkey. Let's just feel happy about Johnson and Farage not winning a general election. If Trump wins the US general election, remember that he's said things like he wants to ban Muslims from entering the country. This is way worse than anything Erdogan ever said.

I stand by my claim that all four of them are fascistoid populists who are willing to throw political freedoms and prosperity under the bus, only so they can grab power.

I think Turkey may be a preferred base, but for good reasons. I found their engineering very professional (Oil and Gas Industries) GEC Alstom opened up some plants there some years ago while it still operated in the UK. They serve different markets. My only complaint is if I end up staying in a 3 star hotel, soft drinks in the minibar have the old fashioned tops but there are no bottle openers anywhere and the housekeeping had to search for these. The good hotels are value for money.

I think Istanbul is just as fun to party in as Berlin, New York and London. I've had a riot in Beyoglu and Istiklal Cadesi. Plenty of pretty slutty Turkish girls who just want to have some fun. Sucks the penis just as well as western girls. That tells me plenty.

Turks in general are obviously as liberal and relaxed as people in any western country. Or that night life could impossibly be supported. Turks know how to have fun in a way Swedes don't. Istanbul is certainly more of a party city than Stockholm ever has been.

Just the fact that they have openly gay saunas dotted around the city. That's not a country groaning under Islamic oppression.

You are living in a typical liberal bubble, thinking that because you once visited the most liberal part of Turkey for a weekend, that the whole country is the same way. Parts of Iran and Afghanistan were fairly liberal in the 1970s also, but that didn't stop them from getting fucked up by lunatics. The freedom-enjoying westernized Turkish youth doesn't stand a chance because they don't have the will or the skill to actually oppose these asshats... they live in the same bubble as you do, and just keep partying and giving blowjobs to occasional Swedish turists and maybe silently cursing to themselves when they find that their bubbles are getting smaller and smaller. But they will never win against an opponent that not only controls the media, the army, the police, and soon the education system, but also has a mob of a million determined followers who are ready to jump under a tank.

I use liberal bubbles as my canary in the mine. Germany is also a mostly, incredibly boring, conservative country. The south is a Catholic wasteland of boredom. But the size of the liberal part of Berlin is a clue as to the health of that country. The conservative Germany tolerates the liberal Berliners shenanigans. USA is pretty similar in that sense. Most of it is boring Bible country. But they tolerate New York, San Fran and the hippies of Oregon.

Same deal with Turkey. Most of it is conservative. But their degree of toleration for the liberal bubbles, tells us how liberal it really is.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Few years ago Turkey was doing really well. What the fuck happened?

There's a wave of rise in populism all over the world. A general lack of faith in authorities, and a reliance on populist bloggers. Ie, overly simplistic solutions to complex problems. Mostly to do with blaming all problems on some minority or something perceived as external. Erdogan is just yet another representative of this trend. But all countries have them. And it's a shame when they win, because they have absolutely nothing to back up all the shit they spew. So just make bad situations worse.

I've heard There's a bunch of theories as to why this trend is. My favourite one is that there's a general shift in consumption patterns and behaviour following the arrival of the Internet. We had something similar in central Europe when industrialisation changed the how those economies worked. It creates insecurity. And when people become insecure they'll panic, and turn to populist leaders who promise stability.

If that is the reason... who the fuck knows when the trend will turn, (if it ever will). Nobody knows how the Internet revolution will end.