missouri passes state law forcing cities to lower their minimum wage

[BH]

Missouri noticed that Kansas was beginning to gain quite a lead in the race to the bottom, and decided to up their game. The "Show Me State" will show everyone that they can't be beat in any race.

The government said to the workers "look, we'll show you this!" And then pulled down its pants and showed its butt. Show me state indeed!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

sure, if it makes you happy to think that, do whatever makes it easier for you.

How else is there to put it? You say that the basis of their values is "fuck you, I've got mine", and you expect people to see that as something other than malicious intent. You state that as a premise, you say "this is where they start from." Since you say you aren't ascribing malicious intent, I challenge you to try to find some way to put a positive spin on it.

Anyone else I'd say "is it possible they come from some other premise" but I'm pretty sure that would be a wasted effort on you.

Republican controlled state Legislatures have been passing rules and laws to prevent Democrat municipalities from passing rules and laws. Minimum wage, where people can go potty, geographic employment rules, etc...

Where have you been?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

How else is there to put it? You say that the basis of their values is "fuck you, I've got mine", and you expect people to see that as something other than malicious intent. You state that as a premise, you say "this is where they start from." Since you say you aren't ascribing malicious intent, I challenge you to try to find some way to put a positive spin on it.

Anyone else I'd say "is it possible they come from some other premise" but I'm pretty sure that would be a wasted effort on you.

Republican controlled state Legislatures have been passing rules and laws to prevent Democrat municipalities from passing rules and laws. Minimum wage, where people can go potty, geographic employment rules, etc...

Where have you been?

I'm here wondering how prideandfall knows their motive. Yes, they have been doing that. Prideandfall knows their motive. I want to know how prideandfall knows their motive.

Prideandfall says their motive is "fuck you, I've got mine". Do you also say that is their motive? If so, aren't you also ascribing malicious intent? Is it possible they act from some other motive?

Yes, you disagree with their actions. I'm not disputing their actions. I'm disputing the omniscience present in this thread that can tell me what the motives are behind the actions.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Republican controlled state Legislatures have been passing rules and laws to prevent Democrat municipalities from passing rules and laws. Minimum wage, where people can go potty, geographic employment rules, etc...

Where have you been?

I'm here wondering how prideandfall knows their motive. Yes, they have been doing that. Prideandfall knows their motive. I want to know how prideandfall knows their motive.

I can't personally speak for prideandfall, but if memory serves, the Republicans don't like ceding control to anyone but Republicans. They have also been pretty vocal about being against minimum wage hikes.

Prideandfall says their motive is "fuck you, I've got mine". Do you also say that is their motive? If so, aren't you also ascribing malicious intent? Is it possible they act from some other motive?

Yes, you disagree with their actions. I'm not disputing their actions. I'm disputing the omniscience present in this threat that can tell me what the motives are behind the actions.

I'm so glad we are discussing what matters most to you, the minor details.

 

[Bronzeage]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...4b0da2c7324d725?2oi&ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009



my two thoughts on this:
firstly while the liberal empathetic side of me recognizes this is pretty shitty for the people living in missouri, the cynical humanity-hating side of me thinks "well that's what you get for living in fucking missouri" and also it's interesting to me on a social experiment level to get to see moments like this where GOP ideology is put into practice and watching the entire thing implode on itself (the way kansas did, for example).

secondly, i'm waiting with bated breath for the resident regressive brigade to show up on this one, because it gives me the chuckles to watch their cognitive dissonance trying to figure out how to reconcile their need to pretend to be holier than thou about how much they hate big government intervention, with the erection it gives them to see government mandates fuck over the poor and minorities.

You think there are people who say "this measure will fuck over the poor, therefore I support it"?

This is actually the motivation behind a lot of the current conservative agenda. It can't be discounted.

 

[coloradoatheist]

You think there are people who say "this measure will fuck over the poor, therefore I support it"?

This is actually the motivation behind a lot of the current conservative agenda. It can't be discounted.

Except the whole argument back and forth about minimum wage is that some workers get helped by it, some get hurt. One side says the people that are helped is ignored while the opposite argument about not caring about the group that gets hurt. So if one side cares about the group that gets hurt, how is that not caring?

 

[ksen]

Republican controlled state Legislatures have been passing rules and laws to prevent Democrat municipalities from passing rules and laws. Minimum wage, where people can go potty, geographic employment rules, etc...

Where have you been?

I'm here wondering how prideandfall knows their motive. Yes, they have been doing that. Prideandfall knows their motive. I want to know how prideandfall knows their motive.

Prideandfall says their motive is "fuck you, I've got mine". Do you also say that is their motive? If so, aren't you also ascribing malicious intent? Is it possible they act from some other motive?

Yes, you disagree with their actions. I'm not disputing their actions. I'm disputing the omniscience present in this threat that can tell me what the motives are behind the actions.

Not really surprised a libertarian is more concerned about how people in power fucking over the poor are having their motives maligned than the fact that people in power are using their power to fuck over the poor.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I'm here wondering how prideandfall knows their motive. Yes, they have been doing that. Prideandfall knows their motive. I want to know how prideandfall knows their motive.

Prideandfall says their motive is "fuck you, I've got mine". Do you also say that is their motive? If so, aren't you also ascribing malicious intent? Is it possible they act from some other motive?

Yes, you disagree with their actions. I'm not disputing their actions. I'm disputing the omniscience present in this threat that can tell me what the motives are behind the actions.

Not really surprised a libertarian is more concerned about how people in power fucking over the poor are having their motives maligned than the fact that people in power are using their power to fuck over the poor.

This may sound silly, but I think saying "you support this because you are a bad person" isn't very likely to convince people to change their minds.

For instance, coloradoatheist gave what might be the motive for some disagreeing with this. Is he lying?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Not really surprised a libertarian is more concerned about how people in power fucking over the poor are having their motives maligned than the fact that people in power are using their power to fuck over the poor.

It matters if you want to understand them or convince them to change their view, and win them to your side for elections etc. It matters if you want to to anything but feel morally superior to them.

It matters because if they are not really doing it as evil cartoon characters twirling mustaches and rubbing their hands together, but for some other misguided reason, you have a chance to make a difference by understanding what that misguided reason is. By dismissing them as evil you give up that opportunity. Ironically, this used to be the liberal approach and branding people evil used to be the territory of the political right.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

 

[coloradoatheist]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

How is keeping people out of a job and earning 0 helping them? Allowing these people to have a job provides some career skills, it also gets rid of some of their idle time in where idle time is made up of bad stuff. So is it better to have people a job or pay for their prison cell?

 

[dismal]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

Consenting adults who would like to offer/accept a job that the government has banned are helped.

 

[Bronzeage]

This is actually the motivation behind a lot of the current conservative agenda. It can't be discounted.

Except the whole argument back and forth about minimum wage is that some workers get helped by it, some get hurt. One side says the people that are helped is ignored while the opposite argument about not caring about the group that gets hurt. So if one side cares about the group that gets hurt, how is that not caring?

That is not the whole argument about minimum wage.

A large part of the argument against minimum wage is that it makes lire easier for poor people and thus encourages them to stay poor. The solution to this problem is always to make being poor more miserable, in some way or another. We see this in minimum wage arguments and from proponents of drug testing for food stamp recipients.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

Consenting adults who would like to offer/accept a job that the government has banned are helped.

dismal's only regret is having not lived in the late 19th century, as a manager of a coal mine or railroad.

 

[dismal]

Except the whole argument back and forth about minimum wage is that some workers get helped by it, some get hurt. One side says the people that are helped is ignored while the opposite argument about not caring about the group that gets hurt. So if one side cares about the group that gets hurt, how is that not caring?

That is not the whole argument about minimum wage.

A large part of the argument against minimum wage is that it makes lire easier for poor people and thus encourages them to stay poor. The solution to this problem is always to make being poor more miserable, in some way or another. We see this in minimum wage arguments and from proponents of drug testing for food stamp recipients.

No, try actually listening to what people say if you want to hear the argument they are making.

The argument against the minimum wage is the same as the argument against a minimum price for anything.

What is the argument against a minimum price of $20 for pineapples?

Well, when the government bans pineapple sales below $20 it hurts people who want to voluntarily a) buy pineapples for less than $20 and b) sell pineapples for less than $20.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

How is keeping people out of a job and earning 0 helping them? Allowing these people to have a job provides some career skills, it also gets rid of some of their idle time in where idle time is made up of bad stuff. So is it better to have people a job or pay for their prison cell?

And you're certain that the prior minimum wage in St. Louis was so onerous as to keep people out of jobs - that the new lower minimum wage is a 'job creator'? Why wouldn't the corporations paying these minimum wage positions just pass the savings onto the ownership? There certainly is more evidence of the latter happening than the former.

aa

 

[Horatio Parker]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

CW is that with no minimum wage, you will have full employment. I doubt that would stand up to much historical scrutiny, but there ya go. Whenever it hasn't worked out that way, it's certainly the Govts fault.

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

What is an altruistic (or even reasonable) argument for lowering the minimum wage? Who is helped? And would you at least agree that the people working there are going to be hurt?

aa

Consenting adults who would like to offer/accept a job that the government has banned are helped.

What job has the government previously banned that are now available? Lowering the minimum wage was a government action. Are these hypothetical new jobs 'government sanctioned'?

aa

 

[Alcoholic Actuary]

The unemployment rate in Missouri is the lowest it's been in the last 5 years (7% in 2013 down to 3.9% today):

https://ycharts.com/indicators/missouri_unemployment_rate

Why try this experiment now?

aa

 

[dismal]

Wow, Missouri needs to set it's minimum wage to $1000 I guess.

Since it wouldn't hurt anyone and super-help the poor.