Morality in Bible stories that you don't understand

[Jimmy Higgins]

God seems to believe in collective punishment. What did the babies and children in those cities do to the Hebrews?

I’m sure “kill everything that breathes” also means to kill all of the animals too…

Killing animals too, unfortunately yes, which was deemed necessary. Life in ancient times had many strange practices that were abominable to God, if you were unaware.

Leviticus 20:15–16 (ESV)
15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Exodus 22:19
19 “Whoever lies with an animal shall be put to death

Leviticus 18:23 - Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion

Deuteronomy 27:21 - Cursed be he that lieth with any manner of beast. And all the people shall say, Amen

People in the promised land, such as the Canaanites, were cursed in a passage from my first post in this thread.
There’s also:
Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

continuing...

Exodus 20:6
but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You see.. God is talking to His own people here, the Israelites, where in Exodus 20:5 which you highlight, are where the commandments' and covenants between God and His people take place.

What God did for the Israelites in Exodus 20:1:

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Oh fuck you! Yahweh, not you. Took them from bondage... over hundreds of years of bandage? Bondage he saw coming and saw fit to do shit about it?!

And God doth finally got off his asseth and went to speak to Moses.

Moses: So let me get this straight. You reward Joseph after his brothers conspired to do evil upon him.
Yahweh: Yup.
Moses: But then let that turn to naught and allow for hundreds of years of bondage of your own people?!
Yahweh: Uh huh.
Moses: So what is so special about now? Why are you finally intervening now? Why n9t another 300 years of this, then you start giving a fuck abiut the chosen people.
Yahweh: Geeah, Abraham wasn't this prissy. He rolled with anything I said.

 

[steve_bank]

I think it is best to keep your distance from Jimmiy, god may not be accurte when he sends a lighning bolt.

 

[DBT]

Yahweh is not pleased.

 

[excreationist]

Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

continuing...

Exodus 20:6
but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Not really - the chosen people got captured by the Babylonians, etc, after a few dozen generations.

 

[Learner]

I’m sure “kill everything that breathes” also means to kill all of the animals too…

Killing animals too, unfortunately yes, which was deemed necessary. Life in ancient times had many strange practices that were abominable to God, if you were unaware.

Leviticus 20:15–16 (ESV)
15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. [...]

People in the promised land, such as the Canaanites, were cursed in a passage from my first post in this thread.
There’s also:
Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

continuing...
Exodus 20:6
but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You see.. God is talking to His own people here, the Israelites, where in Exodus 20:5 which you highlight, are where the commandments' and covenants between God and His people take place.

What God did for the Israelites in Exodus 20:1:

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Oh fuck you! Yahweh, not you. Took them from bondage... over hundreds of years of bandage? Bondage he saw coming and saw fit to do shit about it?!

Fret not Mr.Higgins, fortunately you are in err. Yes the Israelites were in Egypt for several hundred years but... 'they weren't always held hostage' (bondage), it was only during the time of a particular Egyptian rulership, where the ruler/or pharaoh then, was acting on his thoughts through his paranoia.

And God doth finally got off his asseth and went to speak to Moses.

As the story goes... God heard their cries when they were (suddenly) being persecuted, which being a particular moment in their long history of living in Egypt - because it wasn't always that way, since they made their home in Egypt for several hundred years. We can assume this to be likely with some of the verses below:

Exodus 20:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt

Deuteronomy 10:19 (NIV)
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Moses: So let me get this straight. You reward Joseph after his brothers conspired to do evil upon him.
Yahweh: Yup.
Moses: But then let that turn to naught and allow for hundreds of years of bondage of your own people?!
Yahweh: Uh huh.
Moses: So what is so special about now? Why are you finally intervening now? Why n9t another 300 years of this, then you start giving a fuck abiut the chosen people.
Yahweh: Geeah, Abraham wasn't this prissy. He rolled with anything I said.

 

[DBT]

"The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.'' Proverbs 16:4

"Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good? "
(Lamentations 3:38)

''Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos
3:6, KJV)

 

[James Brown]

"Holy" Shit: An Honest Look at the Good Book

Whether you are a believer or an atheist, whether you’ve read the Bible 200 times or never at all, this book is for you. No brow beatings. No selectively warm and fuzzy scriptures. No glossing over the questionable parts. No memorizing a few cherry-picked verses that reinforce a predetermined theological conclusion. Just an honest and humorous look at the Good Book.

The long-entrenched status quo of fearful religious obedience is toppling. We are quickly becoming a society that demands evidence and applies scrutiny, as opposed to one that mechanically accepts previously unquestioned dogma. Religion and The Bible are not and should not be immune to such skepticism. The desire for truth, logic and reason should be at the forefront of every examination and belief.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I’m sure “kill everything that breathes” also means to kill all of the animals too…

Killing animals too, unfortunately yes, which was deemed necessary. Life in ancient times had many strange practices that were abominable to God, if you were unaware.

Leviticus 20:15–16 (ESV)
15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. [...]

People in the promised land, such as the Canaanites, were cursed in a passage from my first post in this thread.
There’s also:
Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

continuing...
Exodus 20:6
but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You see.. God is talking to His own people here, the Israelites, where in Exodus 20:5 which you highlight, are where the commandments' and covenants between God and His people take place.

What God did for the Israelites in Exodus 20:1:

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Oh fuck you! Yahweh, not you. Took them from bondage... over hundreds of years of bandage? Bondage he saw coming and saw fit to do shit about it?!

Fret not Mr.Higgins, fortunately you are in err. Yes the Israelites were in Egypt for several hundred years but... 'they weren't always held hostage' (bondage), it was only during the time of a particular Egyptian rulership, where the ruler/or pharaoh then, was acting on his thoughts through his paranoia.

And God doth finally got off his asseth and went to speak to Moses.

As the story goes... God heard their cries when they were (suddenly) being persecuted, which being a particular moment in their long history of living in Egypt - because it wasn't always that way, since they made their home in Egypt for several hundred years. We can assume this to be likely with some of the verses below:

Exodus 20:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt

Deuteronomy 10:19 (NIV)
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Moses: So let me get this straight. You reward Joseph after his brothers conspired to do evil upon him.
Yahweh: Yup.
Moses: But then let that turn to naught and allow for hundreds of years of bondage of your own people?!
Yahweh: Uh huh.
Moses: So what is so special about now? Why are you finally intervening now? Why n9t another 300 years of this, then you start giving a fuck abiut the chosen people.
Yahweh: Geeah, Abraham wasn't this prissy. He rolled with anything I said.

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying. Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

A: I'll take bullshit deities for $1200 Ken.
B: It might have taken a generation to reach the holy land, but it took hundreds of years of suffering before this deity got off his ass to free his people.

 

[Learner]

.

Leviticus 20:15–16 (ESV)
15 If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal. 16 If a woman approaches any animal and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the animal; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. [...]

People in the promised land, such as the Canaanites, were cursed in a passage from my first post in this thread.
There’s also:
Exodus 20:5

You shall not bow down to them or worship [...] to the third and fourth

continuing...
Exodus 20:6
but showing favor to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

You see.. God is talking to His own people here, the Israelites, where in Exodus 20:5 which you highlight, are where the commandments' and covenants between God and His people take place.

What God did for the Israelites in Exodus 20:1:

I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Oh fuck you! Yahweh, not you. Took them from bondage... over hundreds of years of bandage? Bondage he saw coming and saw fit to do shit about it?!

Fret not Mr.Higgins, fortunately you are in err. Yes the Israelites were in Egypt for several hundred years but... 'they weren't always held hostage' (bondage), [....].

And God doth finally got off his asseth and went to speak to Moses.

As the story goes... God heard their cries when they were (suddenly) being persecuted, which being a particular moment in their long history of living in Egypt - because it wasn't always that way, since they made their home in Egypt for several hundred years. We can assume this to be likely with some of the verses below:

Exodus 20:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt

Deuteronomy 10:19 (NIV)
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

Moses: So let me get this straight. You reward Joseph after his brothers conspired to do evil upon him.
Yahweh: Yup.
Moses: But then let that turn to naught and allow for hundreds of years of bondage of your own people?!
Yahweh: Uh huh.
Moses: So what is so special about now? Why are you finally intervening now? Why n9t another 300 years of this, then you start giving a fuck abiut the chosen people.
Yahweh: Geeah, Abraham wasn't this prissy. He rolled with anything I said.

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying.

You are 'aware of the goings on in Genesis' you say, but are you 'seriously' taking notice?

You bring up Genesis 15:13, and so, I'm curious as to how you've perceive the text . How many people do you think, besides Abram and Lot, existed as part of a group or tribe?

Exodus 15:15 For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. 16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

No nation yet...

Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

There was only 70 people from Jacob by their own will, freely went into Egypt. It took several hundred years for a nation to grow. When Joseph died...only then did affliction came about when a new King came into power. I took the liberty of regurgitating several verses to add emphasis.

Exodus 1:8-10
8 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9 “Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.

A: I'll take bullshit deities for $1200 Ken.
B: It might have taken a generation to reach the holy land, but it took hundreds of years of suffering before this deity got off his ass to free his people.

Ok..sure.
I guess If we're looking at long-wait timescales, say for example, a couple of thousand years for Jesus's promise to return, and your biblical view on the "affliction for 400 years" as stated above - then what's a few hundred years for a promised land in comparison to 2 thousand years plus?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying.

Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

There was only 70 people from Jacob. It took several hundred years for a nation to grow. When Joseph died...only then did affliction came about when a new King came into power. I took the liberty of regurgitating several verses to add emphasis.

I'm not responsible for plot holes. I am citing what is being presented as the actual words of God. If you want to take issue with its accuracy, that is between you and god. I'm not taking anything out of context, I am not being disingenuous with my interpretation. This is what your Holy Book says God said to Abraham. You can't just say, "but...". It is the literal word of God you are arguing against, not me, God. Your God.

Exodus 1:8-10
8 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9 “Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.

A: I'll take bullshit deities for $1200 Ken.
B: It might have taken a generation to reach the holy land, but it took hundreds of years of suffering before this deity got off his ass to free his people.

It sounds like you are noticing a discrepancy between Genesis and Exodus.

And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

The he is Yahweh. Yahweh said that. You are arguing against your own God because you are uncomfortable with the issues you apparently hadn't noticed before. That'd be pragmatism, which is good. But using the Bible to disprove the Bible seems kind of an odd tactic to somehow defend the Bible.

Ok... and If we're looking at long-wait timescales, say for example, a couple of thousand years for Jesus's promise to return, and your biblical view on the "affliction for 400 years" stated above - then what's a few hundred years for a promised land in comparison to 2 thousand years plus?

I was initially responding to Yahweh's bullshit statement in Exodus 20:1, where he says he's come to free them from their bondage. Hundreds of years of bondage. if you seriously want to argue that 400 years of plight is nothing, you have your right to that opinion. But please be forthcoming about it.

 

[Learner]

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying.

Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

There was only 70 people from Jacob. It took several hundred years for a nation to grow. When Joseph died...only then did affliction came about when a new King came into power. I took the liberty of regurgitating several verses to add emphasis.

I'm not responsible for plot holes. I am citing what is being presented as the actual words of God. If you want to take issue with its accuracy, that is between you and god. I'm not taking anything out of context, I am not being disingenuous with my interpretation.

I see where the dispute lies. It seemed to me you implied a context without actually mentioning details of the context. What I mean here is the word "affliction' is open to variable semantic suggestions, we are seeing different things here. Is this the bondage? For example: my context would mean life will be hard even in servitude,
as it was for Jews, who were living under the governing Romans - these were bearable conditions,( a little more harshly for Christians for a time). Israelites were in the same way allowed to live amongst the Egyptians under their rule!

This is what your Holy Book says God said to Abraham. You can't just say, "but...". It is the literal word of God you are arguing against, not me, God. Your God.

Exodus 1:8-10
8 Then a new king, to whom Joseph meant nothing, came to power in Egypt. 9 “Look,” he said to his people, “the Israelites have become far too numerous for us. 10 Come, we must deal shrewdly with them or they will become even more numerous and, if war breaks out, will join our enemies, fight against us and leave the country.

A: I'll take bullshit deities for $1200 Ken.
B: It might have taken a generation to reach the holy land, but it took hundreds of years of suffering before this deity got off his ass to free his people.

It sounds like you are noticing a discrepancy between Genesis and Exodus.

Not sure what it is, here, I've quoted you but you haven't put down the discrepancy.

And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

The he is Yahweh. Yahweh said that. You are arguing against your own God because you are uncomfortable with the issues you apparently hadn't noticed before. That'd be pragmatism, which is good. But using the Bible to disprove the Bible seems kind of an odd tactic to somehow defend the Bible.

Ok... and If we're looking at long-wait timescales, say for example, a couple of thousand years for Jesus's promise to return, and your biblical view on the "affliction for 400 years" stated above - then what's a few hundred years for a promised land in comparison to 2 thousand years plus?

I was initially responding to Yahweh's bullshit statement in Exodus 20:1, where he says he's come to free them from their bondage. Hundreds of years of bondage. if you seriously want to argue that 400 years of plight is nothing, you have your right to that opinion. But please be forthcoming about it.

What kind of bondage is mentioned in Exodus 20:1. ?
If slaves... in what sense, or degree were they slaves for 4 hundred years?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying.

Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

There was only 70 people from Jacob. It took several hundred years for a nation to grow. When Joseph died...only then did affliction came about when a new King came into power. I took the liberty of regurgitating several verses to add emphasis.

I'm not responsible for plot holes. I am citing what is being presented as the actual words of God. If you want to take issue with its accuracy, that is between you and god. I'm not taking anything out of context, I am not being disingenuous with my interpretation.

I see where the dispute lies. It seemed to me you implied a context without actually mentioning details of the context. What I mean here is the word "affliction' is open to variable semantic suggestions, we are seeing different things here. Is this the bondage? For example: my context would mean life will be hard even in servitude,

Affliction, isn't good. Well, I mean, don't let tell you what to think, but Genesis disagrees with your lofty interpretation:

12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.”

400 years, enslaved, mistreated. To the point that Yahweh will "punish the nation they serve as slaves." So bad enough that god must seek vengeance. Seems a tad bit worse that "hard even in servitude."

I was initially responding to Yahweh's bullshit statement in Exodus 20:1, where he says he's come to free them from their bondage. Hundreds of years of bondage. if you seriously want to argue that 400 years of plight is nothing, you have your right to that opinion. But please be forthcoming about it.

What kind of bondage is mentioned in Exodus 20:1. ?
If slaves.. in what sense were they slaves for 4 hundred years?

Again you are desperately trying to Exodus to prove the word of God in Genesis wrong. And again, that was 400 years, enslaved, mistreated... but Yahweh will eventually do something about it and punish the enslavers. This is the word of God, your God. You need to come to terms with it, I'm under no obligation to try and fix what you pragmatically see as broken.

 

[Learner]

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying.

Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

There was only 70 people from Jacob. It took several hundred years for a nation to grow. When Joseph died...only then did affliction came about when a new King came into power. I took the liberty of regurgitating several verses to add emphasis.

I'm not responsible for plot holes. I am citing what is being presented as the actual words of God. If you want to take issue with its accuracy, that is between you and god. I'm not taking anything out of context, I am not being disingenuous with my interpretation.

I see where the dispute lies. It seemed to me you implied a context without actually mentioning details of the context. What I mean here is the word "affliction' is open to variable semantic suggestions, we are seeing different things here. Is this the bondage? For example: my context would mean life will be hard even in servitude,

Affliction, isn't good. Well, I mean, don't let tell you what to think, but Genesis disagrees with your lofty interpretation:

It doesn't "compute" in my lofty brain. Slaves for 4 hundred years?!

Exodus 20:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt

Deuteronomy 10:19 (NIV)
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.”

400 years, enslaved, mistreated. To the point that Yahweh will "punish the nation they serve as slaves." So bad enough that god must seek vengeance. Seems a tad bit worse that "hard even in servitude."

There is a little difference between NIV and KJV versions. The NIV is emphasised strongly on the context to enslavement. It does say descendants will be "enslaved and mistreated there", which could mean any descendant, not every generation.

Genesis 15:12 KJV
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

I was initially responding to Yahweh's bullshit statement in Exodus 20:1, where he says he's come to free them from their bondage. Hundreds of years of bondage. if you seriously want to argue that 400 years of plight is nothing, you have your right to that opinion. But please be forthcoming about it.

What kind of bondage is mentioned in Exodus 20:1. ?
If slaves.. in what sense were they slaves for 4 hundred years?

Again you are desperately trying to Exodus to prove the word of God in Genesis wrong. And again, that was 400 years, enslaved, mistreated... but Yahweh will eventually do something about it and punish the enslavers. This is the word of God, your God. You need to come to terms with it, I'm under no obligation to try and fix what you pragmatically see as broken.

It's not for me, so much about coming to terms with the notion you're implying. As the previous examples above, the 3 verses: Exodus 20:21, Deuteronomy & Leviticus 10:19, doesn't make sense otherwise. Israelites being mistreated, I'd accept and understand those scenarios - but enslavement (harsh version) being forced against their will for 4 hundred years, is conflicting with the Israelites being told by God, to treat strangers coming into their land, as being one born of their own, since they, the Israelites, were strangers too in Egypt etc..

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seriously?

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying.

Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

There was only 70 people from Jacob. It took several hundred years for a nation to grow. When Joseph died...only then did affliction came about when a new King came into power. I took the liberty of regurgitating several verses to add emphasis.

I'm not responsible for plot holes. I am citing what is being presented as the actual words of God. If you want to take issue with its accuracy, that is between you and god. I'm not taking anything out of context, I am not being disingenuous with my interpretation.

I see where the dispute lies. It seemed to me you implied a context without actually mentioning details of the context. What I mean here is the word "affliction' is open to variable semantic suggestions, we are seeing different things here. Is this the bondage? For example: my context would mean life will be hard even in servitude,

Affliction, isn't good. Well, I mean, don't let tell you what to think, but Genesis disagrees with your lofty interpretation:

It doesn't "compute" in my lofty brain. Slaves for 4 hundred years?!

Exodus 20:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt

Deuteronomy 10:19 (NIV)
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

You can ribbit that all you want. Repeating it doesn't negate the issue you seem to be having here.

12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.”

400 years, enslaved, mistreated. To the point that Yahweh will "punish the nation they serve as slaves." So bad enough that god must seek vengeance. Seems a tad bit worse that "hard even in servitude."

There is a difference between versions. NIV is emphasised strongly on the context to enslavement. It does say descendants will be "enslaved and mistreated there", which could mean any descendant, not every generation.

He (God) says the treatment will resulting in punishment. Remember, the whole first born dying thing? Seems kind of a serious punishment for a serious crime.

Genesis 15:12 KJV
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

Again, the judgment was pretty darn harsh.

I was initially responding to Yahweh's bullshit statement in Exodus 20:1, where he says he's come to free them from their bondage. Hundreds of years of bondage. if you seriously want to argue that 400 years of plight is nothing, you have your right to that opinion. But please be forthcoming about it.

What kind of bondage is mentioned in Exodus 20:1. ?
If slaves.. in what sense were they slaves for 4 hundred years?

Again you are desperately trying to Exodus to prove the word of God in Genesis wrong. And again, that was 400 years, enslaved, mistreated... but Yahweh will eventually do something about it and punish the enslavers. This is the word of God, your God. You need to come to terms with it, I'm under no obligation to try and fix what you pragmatically see as broken.

It's not for me, about coming to terms with the notion you're implying.

That is a falsehold. I'm not implying anything. I quoting the Bible straight up.

For example, the 3 verses: Exodus 20:21, Deuteronomy & Leviticus 10:19, doesn't make sense. Israelites being mistreated, Id accept and understand those scenarios - but enslavement (harsh version) being forced against their will for 4 hundred years is conflicting with the Israelites being told by God, to treat strangers coming into their land, as being one born of their own, since they, the Israelites, were strangers in Egypt too etc..

I didn't sell the Bible, less make a warranty for the content within it making sense.

“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord."

How does the mass murder God commits here suss out with your bible quotes? Genesis 15:12-14 and Exodus 12, are quite in line with one another.

 

[Learner]

I'm not responsible for plot holes. I am citing what is being presented as the actual words of God. If you want to take issue with its accuracy, that is between you and god. I'm not taking anything out of context, I am not being disingenuous with my interpretation.

I see where the dispute lies. It seemed to me you implied a context without actually mentioning details of the context. What I mean here is the word "affliction' is open to variable semantic suggestions, we are seeing different things here. Is this the bondage? For example: my context would mean life will be hard even in servitude,

Affliction, isn't good. Well, I mean, don't let tell you what to think, but Genesis disagrees with your lofty interpretation:

It doesn't "compute" in my lofty brain. Slaves for 4 hundred years?!

Exodus 20:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt

Deuteronomy 10:19 (NIV)
And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt

Leviticus 19:33
And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him. 34But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

You can ribbit that all you want. Repeating it doesn't negate the issue you seem to be having here.

I will repeat the bits as you do, for reminding.

12 As the sun was setting, Abram fell into a deep sleep, and a thick and dreadful darkness came over him. 13 Then the Lord said to him, “Know for certain that for four hundred years your descendants will be strangers in a country not their own and that they will be enslaved and mistreated there. 14 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves, and afterward they will come out with great possessions.”

400 years, enslaved, mistreated. To the point that Yahweh will "punish the nation they serve as slaves." So bad enough that god must seek vengeance. Seems a tad bit worse that "hard even in servitude."

There is a difference between versions. NIV is emphasised strongly on the context to enslavement. It does say descendants will be "enslaved and mistreated there", which could mean any descendant, not every generation.

He (God) says the treatment will resulting in punishment. Remember, the whole first born dying thing? Seems kind of a serious punishment for a serious crime.

I think I agree with you here.

Genesis 15:12 KJV
12 And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. 13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

Again, the judgment was pretty darn harsh.

No disputing you here.

I was initially responding to Yahweh's bullshit statement in Exodus 20:1, where he says he's come to free them from their bondage. Hundreds of years of bondage. if you seriously want to argue that 400 years of plight is nothing, you have your right to that opinion. But please be forthcoming about it.

What kind of bondage is mentioned in Exodus 20:1. ?
If slaves.. in what sense were they slaves for 4 hundred years?

Again you are desperately trying to Exodus to prove the word of God in Genesis wrong. And again, that was 400 years, enslaved, mistreated... but Yahweh will eventually do something about it and punish the enslavers. This is the word of God, your God. You need to come to terms with it, I'm under no obligation to try and fix what you pragmatically see as broken.

It's not for me, about coming to terms with the notion you're implying.

That is a falsehold. I'm not implying anything. I quoting the Bible straight up.

I was talking about the "being desperate" bit.

For example, the 3 verses: Exodus 20:21, Deuteronomy & Leviticus 10:19, doesn't make sense. Israelites being [...] strangers in Egypt too etc..

I didn't sell the Bible, less make a warranty for the content within it making sense.

I understand what you're saying, fine, and that's that. Difference of opinion.

“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord."

How does the mass murder God commits here suss out with your bible quotes? Genesis 15:12-14 and Exodus 12, are quite in line with one another.

After a long stubborn negotiation while many of pharaohs people were suffering. It was the last on the list.

(1) Blood (2) Frogs (3) Lice or Gnats (4) Flies (5) Death of Livestock (6) Boils (7) Hail (8) Locusts (9) Darkness (10) Death of Every Firstborn

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

For example, the 3 verses: Exodus 20:21, Deuteronomy & Leviticus 10:19, doesn't make sense. Israelites being [...] strangers in Egypt too etc..

I didn't sell the Bible, less make a warranty for the content within it making sense.

I understand what you're saying, fine, and that's that. Difference of opinion.

Less difference of opinion as it is shoving your fingers in your ears crying out LA LA LA!

“On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the Lord."

How does the mass murder God commits here suss out with your bible quotes? Genesis 15:12-14 and Exodus 12, are quite in line with one another.

After a long stubborn negotiation while many of pharaohs people were suffering. It was the last on the list.

(1) Blood (2) Frogs (3) Lice or Gnats (4) Flies (5) Death of Livestock (6) Boils (7) Hail (8) Locusts (9) Darkness (10) Death of Every Firstborn

Stubborn? Don't even go there, the stubborn Pharaoh has his heart hardened by Yahweh, to make him continue the stubbornness. Because blah blah Yahweh is great and judgement and junk.

 

[excreationist]

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying. Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

A: I'll take bullshit deities for $1200 Ken.
B: It might have taken a generation to reach the holy land, but it took hundreds of years of suffering before this deity got off his ass to free his people.

It is common for God's chosen people to suffer. After being slaves in Egypt they were captured by the Babylonians then in 69 CE the Romans killed lots of Jews and destroyed their temple, etc. Then there is the Holocaust and maybe other things.

 

[James Brown]

I think it's more common for people to suffer, regardless of whether they think they are chosen by God or not.

Telling yourself that God is making you suffer for a very good reason is an effective coping mechanism for dealing with the suffering. It doesn't have to actually be true; it only has to be useful.

 

[excreationist]

I think it's more common for people to suffer, regardless of whether they think they are chosen by God or not.

Telling yourself that God is making you suffer for a very good reason is an effective coping mechanism for dealing with the suffering. It doesn't have to actually be true; it only has to be useful.

The Jews have been persecuted, etc, much more severely than what is normal.... and the interesting thing is that they've maintained much the same culture and traditions and language for thousands of years.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Genesis 15:13. I don't need you to regurgitate biblical quotes. I'm quite aware of the goings on in Genesis. It is really the only book worth studying. Afflict them for 400 years. So this "hearing" bullshit is just that. God says it will happen and he does nothing to intercede for hundreds of years?

A: I'll take bullshit deities for $1200 Ken.
B: It might have taken a generation to reach the holy land, but it took hundreds of years of suffering before this deity got off his ass to free his people.

It is common for God's chosen people to suffer. After being slaves in Egypt they were captured by the Babylonians then in 69 CE the Romans killed lots of Jews and destroyed their temple, etc. Then there is the Holocaust and maybe other things.

'Cept the Babylonian captivity actually happened.