Naked man walks in on naked woman; sues her

[Jolly_Penguin]

http://caldronpool.com/man-walks-in...e9gTPSRODFcKSuNxKcKmS0RNHBw_BQSv8XPVkIQH7aZ0s

In July 2016, the woman was showering in the female only facility when a completely naked man entered. The woman questioned the man thinking he unintentionally walked into the wrong change room. The man claimed he had a right to use the women’s facilities because he legally identified as a woman.

The woman later contacted management who reportedly told her individuals with male genitalia do not have access to female only facilities. The man, however, continued to use the women’s change rooms.

In February 2017, the woman questioned the male again, asking if he had spoken with management about his use of the female showers.

“What the f-ck is your problem?” the man allegedly responded. “This is none of your f-cking business!”
The man then attempted to sue the woman for insinuating that his male genitalia made him less of a woman.

...

In a post on Facebook Swedish journalist Kajsa Ekis Ekman said, “Many commentators have shown sympathy for the man, saying ‘transwomen should not have to shower with men.’ Few realize this is exactly what they are making women do now.”

Thoughts? This is an interesting conflict. On the one hand, trans rights. On the other hand, women want a safe space from men.

 

[ruby sparks]

My thoughts:

1. The (legally) trans woman had not had any surgery. Imo, it's reasonable to suggest, on balance, that she should have to use the men's changing facilities for that reason. I can see an objection to this (some trans people do not want, can't access or can't afford surgery) but I'd still say it*.

2. The non-trans woman is now going to be more aware, if she wasn't already, that accommodating minorities and special groups while laudable in principle can be complicated in practice.

3. A third, unisex cubicle might be a good idea. Though it may be that that would not satisfy a trans person who identifies as one particular gender, and it might not always be feasible or affordable for those who build and manage buildings with public changing rooms in them. It might also be better if it were not called 'unisex' but just 'general'.

* I'm also wondering if the trans woman, while not having had surgery, may nevertheless have altered her appearance and/or dress. In that case, I can see how it might not be comfortable for her to have to use the men's changing rooms.

Also, after the revolution, everyone will get to use a changing room that suits them.

 

[Derec]

It's that woman's fault for assuming xer's gender. Or is it xim's gender?

 

[ruby sparks]

It's that woman's fault for assuming xer's gender. Or is it xim's gender?

I'm not familiar with xer and xim.

In the tribunal report, the legally trans woman (the one with the penis) was called B and the woman without the penis was called A.

A and B had met in the changing rooms more than once, so B's case was that after the first time, A knew that B was legally a woman and so should not have continued to object, that after that it was harassment by A. B lost the case, but only by a majority/minority decision. The management of the gym have clarified that those with male or female bodies should use the male or female changing rooms respectively. Prior to the case there was no official policy.

I'm not sure anyone sued anyone. As far as I can see, the case was taken to arbitration (an anti-discrimination tribunal). B was supported by something called 'Legal Aid For women'.

Maybe that still qualifies as suing though.

 

[laughing dog]

According to the OP - the two people spoke to each other twice. In both cases, the alleged harasser had not stalked or followed the complainant, so I fail to see how this constituted harassment in any sense of the word.

According to ruby sparks, the management of the facility clarified the policy that people should use the rooms based on the bodes not gender identification. If that is true and there is no further legal action(s), the issue seems to be settled in a clear and reasonable fashion.

 

[fast]

Thoughts?

Oh, you betcha.

First of all, there is absolutely no question who the freak is. He (or for fucks sake, she with a dick), knows damn well that his freakness (woman in a males body) will cause an uproar when displayed in such naked fashion. As a so-called self-professed woman, you'd think he'd have a fucking clue before spouting misdirecting nonsense about who there is the one with an actual problem.

Secondly, it is only the transgender rights issue that even opens the door between dileanating between males and men versus females and women. Pre-weirdness, males are men while females are women. Post-fuckedupedness, a male can be either a man or a woman, and a female can be a man or woman.

In pre-weird-as-shit-times, it's perfectly acceptable to fail to be so overly clear about whether a male is a man or whether a female is a woman. People use them interchangeably without care or concern when the difference doesn't matter. Well, now it does!

If I were a female/woman in these strange times, I might be more forgiving and allow women to enter women-only facilities, but I'll be damned if I'd want to enter them myself. It needs to be recognized as a female only facility. If we're gonna be sued, let's not be guilty of gender discrimination, especially when it's their sex we're discriminating against anyway.

 

[ZiprHead]

Anyone can sue anyone. The question is, will this lawsuit be successful. I highly doubt it.

 

[RVonse]

Thoughts? This is an interesting conflict. On the one hand, trans rights. On the other hand, women want a safe space from men.

It is exactly the same conflict between 2nd Amendment rights versus the right of others wanting a safe space from the guns.

And not surprisingly, based on the liberal bias of this board you can already see most posters are taking the "safety" side versus the "liberties " side of this conflict. So in this instance, the liberal view is to abandon the tranny and her rights.

But I would expect most libertarians to take an opposite position.

 

[RVonse]

Anyone can sue anyone. The question is, will this lawsuit be successful. I highly doubt it.

If its a liberal judge the tranny will lose. If its a judge who values liberty, then maybe not.

 

[steve_bank]

We need more bathrooms to cover all bases. One for males who think they are female. But would that be discrimination?

Juicy tabloid story.

What happens if he claims to be female but gets a hard on around naked women in a locker room? Adult women can handle it, but can young inexperienced girls?

 

[blastula]

The person sounds like a fake trans. Would have to see how he/she presents themselves outside the locker room.

 

[ruby sparks]

Anyone can sue anyone. The question is, will this lawsuit be successful. I highly doubt it.

If its a liberal judge the tranny will lose. If its a judge who values liberty, then maybe not.

I don't understand what you mean there, partly because I'm not sure what you mean by 'liberal'.

 

[ruby sparks]

What happens if he claims to be female but gets a hard on around naked women in a locker room? Adult women can handle it, but can young inexperienced girls?

Could that be a transgender female lesbian rather than a fake transgender woman? Is there such a thing as being a gay trans person? There must be, surely? Orientation varies, and is different from either sex or gender. Or, what if she's a transgender woman who is attracted to both men and women? Would that be bisexual, bigender or bioriented?

By the way, I don't actually see a good reason to think this particular transgender woman was a fake. I'm just asking an open/hypotheical question, partly because this sort of thing confuses me endlessly.

 

[RVonse]

What happens if he claims to be female but gets a hard on around naked women in a locker room? Adult women can handle it, but can young inexperienced girls?

Could that be a transgender female lesbian rather than a fake transgender woman? Is there such a thing as being a gay trans person? There must be, surely? Orientation varies, and is different from either sex or gender. Or, what if she's a transgender woman who is attracted to both men and women? Would that be bisexual, bigender or bioriented?

I could be wrong. But it was always my belief that a person that likes both male and females but without any genital changes done, is called bisexual.

 

[ruby sparks]

What happens if he claims to be female but gets a hard on around naked women in a locker room? Adult women can handle it, but can young inexperienced girls?

Could that be a transgender female lesbian rather than a fake transgender woman? Is there such a thing as being a gay trans person? There must be, surely? Orientation varies, and is different from either sex or gender. Or, what if she's a transgender woman who is attracted to both men and women? Would that be bisexual, bigender or bioriented?

I could be wrong. But it was always my belief that a person that likes both male and females but without any genital changes done, is called bisexual.

Yeah. That could be the correct and usual/traditional term. I was just wondering if it was possible there are other variants, in light of transgender being recognised.

 

[DrZoidberg]

http://caldronpool.com/man-walks-in...e9gTPSRODFcKSuNxKcKmS0RNHBw_BQSv8XPVkIQH7aZ0s

In July 2016, the woman was showering in the female only facility when a completely naked man entered. The woman questioned the man thinking he unintentionally walked into the wrong change room. The man claimed he had a right to use the women’s facilities because he legally identified as a woman.

The woman later contacted management who reportedly told her individuals with male genitalia do not have access to female only facilities. The man, however, continued to use the women’s change rooms.

In February 2017, the woman questioned the male again, asking if he had spoken with management about his use of the female showers.

“What the f-ck is your problem?” the man allegedly responded. “This is none of your f-cking business!”
The man then attempted to sue the woman for insinuating that his male genitalia made him less of a woman.

...

In a post on Facebook Swedish journalist Kajsa Ekis Ekman said, “Many commentators have shown sympathy for the man, saying ‘transwomen should not have to shower with men.’ Few realize this is exactly what they are making women do now.”

Thoughts? This is an interesting conflict. On the one hand, trans rights. On the other hand, women want a safe space from men.

This highlights the whole problem with identity politics. I'm fine with whoever identifying as whatever. But the moment they demand other people to respect it, then they've lost my support.

Transexuals is a tiny minority. It's idiotic to adapt the entire world to suit them better. I only support their rights if it has low or zero cost to society in general. There's very practical biologically grounded motivations for having a hard and fast rule about no men in the women's changing room. Regardless what the men('ish) identify as. I have zero sympathy for this guy. Boo fucking hoo.

 

[ruby sparks]

Apparently 0.6% of Americans identify as transgender (I think the person in the OP is transgender not transexual, since they hadn't had surgery, but they may be transexual if they wanted or were awaiting surgery). Apparently 1.1% of Americans are wheelchair users.

I suggest a threshold of 1% of the population before anything is done to cater for minorities.

There. Sorted. Wheelchair toilets and showers but not for trans.

Or, how about, as I said before, 3 options, men's, women's and other? Trans could have the option to use the same facilities as for example the physically disabled, because that would no longer be labelled as 'disabled' but just come under the umbrella heading 'other'. That might be controversial, but It might also be pragmatic and viable. I guess I'm not being entirely serious.

 

[DrZoidberg]

Apparently 0.6% of Americans identify as transgender (I think the person in the OP is transgender not transexual, since they hadn't had surgery, but they may be transexual if they wanted or were awaiting surgery). Apparently 1.1% of Americans are wheelchair users.

I suggest a threshold of 1% of the population before anything is done to cater for minorities.

There. Sorted. Wheelchair toilets and showers but not for trans.

Or, how about, as I said before, 3 options, men's, women's and other? Trans could have the option to use the same facilities as for example the physically disabled. That might be controversial, but It might also be pragmatic and viable.

But there's something more about people in wheelchairs. It suggests some sort of accident or serious misfortune in their lives. I think that mandates the rest of society to be extra nice to people in wheel chairs.

While having a penis is a horrendous tragedy and great cause of alarm, it's not a problem in the magnitude of having half your body useless.

 

[ruby sparks]

But there's something more about people in wheelchairs. It suggests some sort of accident or serious misfortune in their lives. I think that mandates the rest of society to be extra nice to people in wheel chairs.

Yeah, but (and I'm not necessarily being entirely serious here) your point does not cover for example mental illness. Which is worse, not having the use of your legs, or having bipolar depression? In short, things which are invisible are not necessarily a lesser misfortune.

 

[ZiprHead]

Rereading the OP attachment, the woman who was sued won the case, as I suspected above.