Naked man walks in on naked woman; sues her

[DrZoidberg]

But there's something more about people in wheelchairs. It suggests some sort of accident or serious misfortune in their lives. I think that mandates the rest of society to be extra nice to people in wheel chairs.

Yeah, but (and I'm not necessarily being entirely serious here) your point does not cover for example mental illness. Which is worse, not having the use of your legs, or having bipolar depression? In short, things which are invisible are not necessarily lesser.

Don't you think it's because of the human instinct for fairness? Any "condition" we can't easily see it treated with suspicion because it's easy to fake. It's a hard problem to solve.

It's of course worse to have serious bipolar or depression. And we do have psychiatric institutions in play to take care of them. So it's not like we don't care about them at all.

 

[dismal]

My thoughts:

1. The (legally) trans woman had not had any surgery.

I doubt xir identifies as a "(legally) trans woman", probably just as a "woman". Try to keep the bigotry out of this.

 

[dismal]

We need more bathrooms to cover all bases.

Well, the challenge to that would be having separate facilities for each of the 63 genders in one building. And then having to constantly add new facilities as new genders are added to the list.

And, of course, keeping the Androgine Male-Attracted Hermaphromales from sneaking into the Feminine Homosexual Andromale's showers.

 

[ruby sparks]

My thoughts:

1. The (legally) trans woman had not had any surgery.

I doubt xir identifies as a "(legally) trans woman", probably just as a "woman". Try to keep the bigotry out of this.

I'm worried that you're developing an unhealthy obsession about bigotry. If it gets any worse and becomes clinical, let me know, and I'll advocate that after the revolution, you should have separate showering facilities, or the option at least.

 

[dismal]

My thoughts:

1. The (legally) trans woman had not had any surgery.

I doubt xir identifies as a "(legally) trans woman", probably just as a "woman". Try to keep the bigotry out of this.

I'm worried that you're developing an unhealthy obsession about bigotry. If it gets any worse and becomes clinical, let me know, and I'll advocate that after the revolution, you should have separate showering facilities, or the option at least.

tip: if you use offensive language people will be offended and it's not their fault.

 

[thebeave]

http://caldronpool.com/man-walks-in...e9gTPSRODFcKSuNxKcKmS0RNHBw_BQSv8XPVkIQH7aZ0s

In July 2016, the woman was showering in the female only facility when a completely naked man entered. The woman questioned the man thinking he unintentionally walked into the wrong change room. The man claimed he had a right to use the women’s facilities because he legally identified as a woman.

The woman later contacted management who reportedly told her individuals with male genitalia do not have access to female only facilities. The man, however, continued to use the women’s change rooms.

In February 2017, the woman questioned the male again, asking if he had spoken with management about his use of the female showers.

“What the f-ck is your problem?” the man allegedly responded. “This is none of your f-cking business!”
The man then attempted to sue the woman for insinuating that his male genitalia made him less of a woman.

...

In a post on Facebook Swedish journalist Kajsa Ekis Ekman said, “Many commentators have shown sympathy for the man, saying ‘transwomen should not have to shower with men.’ Few realize this is exactly what they are making women do now.”

Thoughts? This is an interesting conflict. On the one hand, trans rights. On the other hand, women want a safe space from men.

This highlights the whole problem with identity politics. I'm fine with whoever identifying as whatever. But the moment they demand other people to respect it, then they've lost my support.

Transexuals is a tiny minority. It's idiotic to adapt the entire world to suit them better. I only support their rights if it has low or zero cost to society in general. There's very practical biologically grounded motivations for having a hard and fast rule about no men in the women's changing room. Regardless what the men('ish) identify as. I have zero sympathy for this guy. Boo fucking hoo.

Yep. As Spock said in Wrath of Khan, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".

One thing I've always wondered about is how did we decide that we have to accommodate the 1% of gender orientation? How about the other people who are in the 1% bracket, but with different issues? Like height, for example. People who are 6'10" tall are constantly bumping their heads on door jambs, light fixtures, etc. Should we redesign buildings so that no super tall person ever bumps their head? And how does that sort of accommodation play against the shortest 1% in height? Should we mandate building codes make kitchen countertops and upper cabinets easily reachable for the shortest 1%? Such a change would make it worse for the tallest 1%. We can't make the world be all things to all people. We should make reasonable accommodations when technically and economically feasible, but let's use common sense and not get ridiculous.

 

[steve_bank]

What happens if he claims to be female but gets a hard on around naked women in a locker room? Adult women can handle it, but can young inexperienced girls?

Could that be a transgender female lesbian rather than a fake transgender woman? Is there such a thing as being a gay trans person? There must be, surely? Orientation varies, and is different from either sex or gender. Or, what if she's a transgender woman who is attracted to both men and women? Would that be bisexual, bigender or bioriented?

By the way, I don't actually see a good reason to think this particular transgender woman was a fake. I'm just asking an open/hypotheical question, partly because this sort of thing confuses me endlessly.

Yes there are social issues to be worked out on sexuality and public bathrooms and locker rooms. That being said there are two sides to the issue. Presuming to arbitrarily mandate a policy by a well meaning few that ignores perhaps the rights of others. A right not to be exposed to unwanted sexuality in a captive space like a locker room.

I am neater conservative, Christian, nor liberal, I look at issues without ideology.

Whiter the person was a fake or not is not the issue. You can not ignore rights of others. And you can not ignore ignore the issue of kids.

Back in the 80s I was in Portland Or. There was a gay male sports club. They refused bisexuals and lesbians. The issue is far more socially complex than simply mandating someone with a penis can get naked in a female locker room.

Your response is

 

[AirPoh]

http://caldronpool.com/man-walks-in...e9gTPSRODFcKSuNxKcKmS0RNHBw_BQSv8XPVkIQH7aZ0s

In July 2016, the woman was showering in the female only facility when a completely naked man entered. The woman questioned the man thinking he unintentionally walked into the wrong change room. The man claimed he had a right to use the women’s facilities because he legally identified as a woman.

The woman later contacted management who reportedly told her individuals with male genitalia do not have access to female only facilities. The man, however, continued to use the women’s change rooms.

In February 2017, the woman questioned the male again, asking if he had spoken with management about his use of the female showers.

“What the f-ck is your problem?” the man allegedly responded. “This is none of your f-cking business!”
The man then attempted to sue the woman for insinuating that his male genitalia made him less of a woman.

...

In a post on Facebook Swedish journalist Kajsa Ekis Ekman said, “Many commentators have shown sympathy for the man, saying ‘transwomen should not have to shower with men.’ Few realize this is exactly what they are making women do now.”

Thoughts? This is an interesting conflict. On the one hand, trans rights. On the other hand, women want a safe space from men.

Always hard to comment on things when we don't know the Full Monty, but based on what is in the OP, seems to me the woman with a penis is just being a dick.

 

[Gun Nut]

...

 

[Rhea]

I am surprised that a person who identifies as a person with no penis is being so aggressively flamboyant about their penis. It's hard to picture this. I would have expected a person with a penis who identifies as a woman to be more subtle with the penis and use a towel in the changing room.

It doesn't feel like this should be impossible to work out. If the person identifying as a women is being truthful, then one would expect understanding of the women's perspective which is usually, no blatant penises in the change room.

I do recall people who used to complain when I took my son into the change room and how stupid I thought (and still think) it is to care about boys who are 3-4-5 in there, because by all that's gendered, my 3yo would NOT have successfully navigated the men's locker alone and I would have had to march in there and get him wjhile terrifying all of the penises about which I honestly could not care less. You've seen two, you've seen em all.

But at any rate, my main point is that I am very surprised that the person with a penis made a point of swaggering around.

 

[Rhea]

As such, my reaction would be to want to verify for my own sake that the person is actually identifying as a woman and is not some self-righteous bigot trying to make a point.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

But at any rate, my main point is that I am very surprised that the person with a penis made a point of swaggering around.

From what is written in the reports, I don't see that (s)he was "swaggering it around". Was (s)he slapping it against things? Was (s)he stroking it? Or was (s)he just letting it hang there uncovered like any other part of his/her body?

 

[AirPoh]

But at any rate, my main point is that I am very surprised that the person with a penis made a point of swaggering around.

From what is written in the reports, I don't see that (s)he was "swaggering it around". Was (s)he slapping it against things? Was (s)he stroking it? Or was (s)he just letting it hang there uncovered like any other part of his/her body?

Letting your dick hang there uncovered in a woman's changing room is swaggering it around.

 

[J842P]

Apparently 0.6% of Americans identify as transgender (I think the person in the OP is transgender not transexual, since they hadn't had surgery, but they may be transexual if they wanted or were awaiting surgery). Apparently 1.1% of Americans are wheelchair users.

I suggest a threshold of 1% of the population before anything is done to cater for minorities.

There. Sorted. Wheelchair toilets and showers but not for trans.

Or, how about, as I said before, 3 options, men's, women's and other? Trans could have the option to use the same facilities as for example the physically disabled, because that would no longer be labelled as 'disabled' but just come under the umbrella heading 'other'. That might be controversial, but It might also be pragmatic and viable. I guess I'm not being entirely serious.

The definitions of transgender/transexual have nothing to do with surgery.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Letting your dick hang there uncovered in a woman's changing room is swaggering it around.

How is a woman to take a shower without exposing her penis? Those things need to be washed too, don't they? Should we engage in body shaming against her?

 

[J842P]

I am surprised that a person who identifies as a person with no penis is being so aggressively flamboyant about their penis. It's hard to picture this. I would have expected a person with a penis who identifies as a woman to be more subtle with the penis and use a towel in the changing room.

It doesn't feel like this should be impossible to work out. If the person identifying as a women is being truthful, then one would expect understanding of the women's perspective which is usually, no blatant penises in the change room.

I do recall people who used to complain when I took my son into the change room and how stupid I thought (and still think) it is to care about boys who are 3-4-5 in there, because by all that's gendered, my 3yo would NOT have successfully navigated the men's locker alone and I would have had to march in there and get him wjhile terrifying all of the penises about which I honestly could not care less. You've seen two, you've seen em all.

But at any rate, my main point is that I am very surprised that the person with a penis made a point of swaggering around.

They don't identify as person's without penises. They identify as *women*.

 

[dismal]

I am surprised that a person who identifies as a person with no penis is being so aggressively flamboyant about their penis. It's hard to picture this. I would have expected a person with a penis who identifies as a woman to be more subtle with the penis and use a towel in the changing room.

It doesn't feel like this should be impossible to work out. If the person identifying as a women is being truthful, then one would expect understanding of the women's perspective which is usually, no blatant penises in the change room.

I do recall people who used to complain when I took my son into the change room and how stupid I thought (and still think) it is to care about boys who are 3-4-5 in there, because by all that's gendered, my 3yo would NOT have successfully navigated the men's locker alone and I would have had to march in there and get him wjhile terrifying all of the penises about which I honestly could not care less. You've seen two, you've seen em all.

But at any rate, my main point is that I am very surprised that the person with a penis made a point of swaggering around.

What's this "person who identifies as a person with no penis" stuff?

Xir identifies as a woman.

 

[ruby sparks]

Apparently 0.6% of Americans identify as transgender (I think the person in the OP is transgender not transexual, since they hadn't had surgery, but they may be transexual if they wanted or were awaiting surgery). Apparently 1.1% of Americans are wheelchair users.

I suggest a threshold of 1% of the population before anything is done to cater for minorities.

There. Sorted. Wheelchair toilets and showers but not for trans.

Or, how about, as I said before, 3 options, men's, women's and other? Trans could have the option to use the same facilities as for example the physically disabled, because that would no longer be labelled as 'disabled' but just come under the umbrella heading 'other'. That might be controversial, but It might also be pragmatic and viable. I guess I'm not being entirely serious.

The definitions of transgender/transexual have nothing to do with surgery.

Not according to the wiki page on transgender:

"Transgender people are sometimes called transsexual if they desire medical assistance to transition from one sex to another."

I personally have no axe to grind. I admit to being slightly confused.

- - - Updated - - -

Letting your dick hang there uncovered in a woman's changing room is swaggering it around.

Eek. I've been swaggering my dick around in male changing rooms my whole life and never realised.

 

[ruby sparks]

As such, my reaction would be to want to verify for my own sake that the person is actually identifying as a woman and is not some self-righteous bigot trying to make a point.

Rhea, would it be very cheeky of me to suggest that we apply the standard of innocent until proven guilty, at least until we establish that the rate of false claims of transgender identity are anything other than very low?

 

[Rhea]

Letting your dick hang there uncovered in a woman's changing room is swaggering it around.

How is a woman to take a shower without exposing her penis? Those things need to be washed too, don't they? Should we engage in body shaming against her?

In women's changing rooms and showers there are usually curtains. Not always, but usually. Even so there is almost always a wall, and a woman with a son in the room would usually direct him to face towards the wall out of politeness. The young boy, of course, also does not identify as a man - he is a child. That's sort of how things are done. And so this story surprises me. That's all.

- - - Updated - - -

But at any rate, my main point is that I am very surprised that the person with a penis made a point of swaggering around.

They don't identify as person's without penises. They identify as *women*.

Indeed, and presumably identifying as a women suggests that she would be more like me than like you in this. And therefore it surprises me when she is not.