NFL 2017

[Tars Tarkus]

Just saw on FB that Chicago fired their kicker. I guess that field goal attempt at the end of the game against the Lions was the last straw.

As a Patriots fan, I can empathize. We had Scott Missin' Scisson. Despite being 5-11, the Patriots had 5 games terribly affected by his missed field goals, as the Pats lost a lot of close games.

Patriots at 5-11?
Hard to believe that actually happened. I've been a die hard Cardinals fan since 1972, and the last time I was confident of a Cards victory over any team was in 1984 against the Pats.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Just saw on FB that Chicago fired their kicker. I guess that field goal attempt at the end of the game against the Lions was the last straw.

As a Patriots fan, I can empathize. We had Scott Missin' Scisson. Despite being 5-11, the Patriots had 5 games terribly affected by his missed field goals, as the Pats lost a lot of close games.

Patriots at 5-11?
Hard to believe that actually happened.

As a Patriots fan... no, it isn't. It seems a long time ago now, but the Patriots were awful, Cleveland Browns awful. Then Robert Kraft happened, Bill Parcels, and Drew Bledsoe, and Willie McGinnest happened. And on a sad note, Terry Glenn (I think the reason Parcels left) also happened and he just died in a car accident.

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Just saw on FB that Chicago fired their kicker. I guess that field goal attempt at the end of the game against the Lions was the last straw.

As a Patriots fan, I can empathize. We had Scott Missin' Scisson. Despite being 5-11, the Patriots had 5 games terribly affected by his missed field goals, as the Pats lost a lot of close games.

Wow. 14/26. Kickers do better that from 50+ now.

I think kickers did better than that from 50+ back then too! The Pats were starting to turn it around, but then the critical field goal attempt would go wide. *sigh*

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So the Patriots are flying at this point and I'm think, with Gronk healthy, they'll be hard to beat. Then he pulls off that ridiculous diving shoulder to the head. WTF?!?! If the NFL is serious about head injuries, that play should get him ax'd for the rest of the season.

 

[blastula]

That was blatantly premeditated by Gronk. That stuff makes me queasy. Tonight, I was hoping to watch my favorite player from another team, Alvin Kamara, but he got taken out on the first drive with a helmet shot to his head. I don't know if this season is worst than most for injuries, but it feels like it.

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Watching Ryan Shazier paralyze himself while tackling, I wondered how many more parents will refuse to let their kids play. I hope he can recover and function normally outside of football.

 

[TSwizzle]

That was blatantly premeditated by Gronk. That stuff makes me queasy. Tonight, I was hoping to watch my favorite player from another team, Alvin Kamara, but he got taken out on the first drive with a helmet shot to his head. I don't know if this season is worst than most for injuries, but it feels like it.

Even if you consider the abundance of caution, there does seem to be more injuries happening. Some of these hits seem to be intentional and I don't understand that attitude. Gronk is a seasoned pro, he let himself down badly with that shit. The league needs to take a stand against this sort of thing and start ejecting players. It's sickening.

 

[ronburgundy]

That was blatantly premeditated by Gronk. That stuff makes me queasy. Tonight, I was hoping to watch my favorite player from another team, Alvin Kamara, but he got taken out on the first drive with a helmet shot to his head. I don't know if this season is worst than most for injuries, but it feels like it.

Even if you consider the abundance of caution, there does seem to be more injuries happening. Some of these hits seem to be intentional and I don't understand that attitude. Gronk is a seasoned pro, he let himself down badly with that shit. The league needs to take a stand against this sort of thing and start ejecting players. It's sickening.

Very clear head targeting (or any hit) well after the play (as in Gronk's case) should get an immediate ejection. Plus, he should be suspended for the rest of the season for what was the dirtiest play in many years (more dirty than anything ever by Burfict or Suh).

However, immediate ejections for in-play hits are highly problematic and will serious damage the quality of the sport. There are many hard hits in games that are perfectly legal but get unjust flags because of "optics". And often any helmet contact is incidental and due to post contact physics of body movement, despite the hitter clearly aiming for and initially hitting well below the head.
Adding "targeting" or similar immediate ejection rules will be guaranteed to lead to many unjust ejections that determine game outcomes, and an unfair game will lose way more fans than hard hits, which most dedicated fans don't mind. Also, immediate ejections make no one safer than would waiting to carefully review the tape and issue fines and suspensions for later games. If anything, a player hit with a 15 yard penalty is less likely to give another such hit in the same game than they are in their future games.

For example Smith-Schuster's hit last Sunday should probably not even have gotten a flag (but his taunting should have), let alone a suspension or ejection. His suspension is really a PR move related to the overall violence of that game, Shazier's injury that had nothing to do with any penalty, and Schuster's infantile taunting. Had Burfict jumped up and not happened to get a concussion, Schuster wouldn't be suspended, even though resulting injuries should play no role in punishments.

It wasn't even an illegal blindside block by the rule. He came at Burfict directly from the direction that Burfict was moving toward (about the smear the runner), and lowered his body to hit Burfict squarely in the chest, which he did. IOW, it was a front-side block.
The fact that Burfict was staring at the runner rather than looking where he was going doesn't make it dirty and shouldn't make it even a penalty. Any minor contact with Burficts' facemask was due to the physics of his momentum being forced backward by the chest hit, and had nothing to do with his concussion. The NFL is still trying to feed fans lies about concussions by pretending that they are all about hits to the head, when few of them are. They are caused by abrupt reversal of bodily momentum that causes the brain to smack the inside of the skull.

Even with a perfectly clean chest hit an zero contact to Burficts facemask, the reversal of his forward momentum when hit plus a second reversal when his head hit the ground are what caused the concussion. No rule other than making it flag football would stop that, which is why the NFL is trying to con fans that this was a dirty hit to the head.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Concussion protocol in serious jeopardy after Houston Texan QB's arms seize after a hit... (articles note his fingers twitching, what I noticed was his inability to move most of his torso for a few seconds) and he's allowed to take back to the field again.

That was blatantly premeditated by Gronk. That stuff makes me queasy. Tonight, I was hoping to watch my favorite player from another team, Alvin Kamara, but he got taken out on the first drive with a helmet shot to his head. I don't know if this season is worst than most for injuries, but it feels like it.

Even if you consider the abundance of caution, there does seem to be more injuries happening. Some of these hits seem to be intentional and I don't understand that attitude. Gronk is a seasoned pro, he let himself down badly with that shit. The league needs to take a stand against this sort of thing and start ejecting players. It's sickening.

It seems like you need to either hit a ref or drop a safe on an opposing player to get ejected in the NFL.

 

[TSwizzle]

For example Smith-Schuster's hit last Sunday should probably not even have gotten a flag (but his taunting should have), let alone a suspension or ejection.

Nah, he was out of line, you could see the intent behind that hit. Maim.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

The NFL would be just as exciting and competitive if it became a flag sport. Get rid of head hits. Get rid of face masks. Get rid of every collision aspect of the sport and penalize collisions. Sure, you'll need to pad up to some degree but it would become more like a combination of soccer and rugby, lots of physicality but a lot less concussion like injury.

I remember my dad talking about his football days when people tackled by grabbing, not colliding. That's the direction the sport should take.

BTW I'm a Steeler fan, live just up the road.

 

[ronburgundy]

For example Smith-Schuster's hit last Sunday should probably not even have gotten a flag (but his taunting should have), let alone a suspension or ejection.

Nah, he was out of line, you could see the intent behind that hit. Maim.

You can "see" identical "intent" in 80% of hits in the NFL. You could see that "intent" in Burfict as he was preparing to maim the Steeler running back, which he would have done if not for Schuster's block. So, unless you are going to suspend most players every week, that has no relevance. All that matters is did he target the head and/or approach Burfict from the rear or side, and the answer is a definitive "no".
Thus, it wasn't even a penalty, and at the very worst nothing more than a flag. No matter what lies the NFL is telling, his suspension was given for the taunting and and attempt at overall PR repair for a game where another player may have been paralyzed from a standard play that they can do nothing about.

 

[TSwizzle]

For example Smith-Schuster's hit last Sunday should probably not even have gotten a flag (but his taunting should have), let alone a suspension or ejection.

Nah, he was out of line, you could see the intent behind that hit. Maim.

You can "see" identical "intent" in 80% of hits in the NFL.

I'm talking about this specific hit. He was out to deliberately injure a fellow professional who couldn't defend himself. It was the action of a coward. I'd like to see that sort of thing eradicated if I am to continue watching the NFL.

 

[Malintent]

You will not see a change. Some sports are more barbarically primitive than others... This is the second worse of them (boxing being the basest). This is some dumb shit that a lot (majority?) of Americans seem to enjoy watching... I'd say go ahead and stop watching it... the Bronze Age is over... enough with the Gladiators in Arenas already.

 

[ronburgundy]

The NFL would be just as exciting and competitive if it became a flag sport. Get rid of head hits. Get rid of face masks. Get rid of every collision aspect of the sport and penalize collisions. Sure, you'll need to pad up to some degree but it would become more like a combination of soccer and rugby, lots of physicality but a lot less concussion like injury.

I remember my dad talking about his football days when people tackled by grabbing, not colliding. That's the direction the sport should take.

BTW I'm a Steeler fan, live just up the road.

If you were right, you could start a flag league today and make billions. But your very wrong, so you wouldn't make a penny. No one would watch it over the NFL, because the NFL became the #1 sport in large part because of its physicality and violence.
The most popular highlight reels over the last half century are always the hardest and most brutal hits.
Also, adult-male flag football would have plenty of concussions, unless all the excitement and speed were taken out of it. You'd still have multiple grown men running at full speed converging on thrown balls and on ball carriers, making collisions common and inevitable. Making contact illegal would make it nothing but 3 hours of flags. The only way to avoid collisions would be to basically make it illegal to run at full speed, block, or try to catch a ball that wasn't intended for you.

Hell, I played frisbee football where there is no benefit to making any contact, but its impossible to avoid. In the 8 weeks we played, there were 3 serious collisions where someone got "their bell rung".


Oh, and pro Rugby has almost as many concussions per game as the NFL, and Soccer is not far behind. And I've seen analysis (can't find them right now) that concussions are worse in Rugby than American football among youth leagues, because avoiding concussions in helmetless Rugby requires more practiced skill. BTW, concussions are 10 times more likely in horse racing than any of these sports.

This is only surprising to people who don't understand that most concussions in the NFL have nothing to do with helmet to helmet contact or other types of illegal hits.

Plus, Rugby is higher in other serious injuries. Every year in the UK, about 5 people are paralyzed playing rugby. The odds of paralysis or death is almost 5 times as high in Rugby than American football.

 

[ronburgundy]

You will not see a change. Some sports are more barbarically primitive than others... This is the second worse of them (boxing being the basest). This is some dumb shit that a lot (majority?) of Americans seem to enjoy watching... I'd say go ahead and stop watching it... the Bronze Age is over... enough with the Gladiators in Arenas already.

Rugby and Soccer have plenty of concussions and other serious injury. So, you are basically attacking the vast majority of the human population for the competitive sport they enjoy. Even many non-contact sports or just recreational activities have plenty of concussions and other equally serious risk that don't get all the hysteria. Most pro skiiers and snowboarders have had several concussions. Life has risks.

 

[TSwizzle]

You will not see a change. Some sports are more barbarically primitive than others... This is the second worse of them (boxing being the basest). This is some dumb shit that a lot (majority?) of Americans seem to enjoy watching... I'd say go ahead and stop watching it... the Bronze Age is over... enough with the Gladiators in Arenas already.

I don't mind a bit of physical rough and tumble. I enjoy boxing too. What I object to is the nasty, cowardly hits on essentially defenseless opponents with the intent to do serious harm.

 

[ronburgundy]

You can "see" identical "intent" in 80% of hits in the NFL.

I'm talking about this specific hit. He was out to deliberately injure a fellow professional who couldn't defend himself. It was the action of a coward. I'd like to see that sort of thing eradicated if I am to continue watching the NFL.

And what you are claiming is no more true of that hit than dozens of hits every single game. And your characterization in nonsense. Burfict could easily have defended himself. He was hit in his chest from directly in front. And part of the "force" of the hit was because he was moving toward to guy who hit him. He didn't look where he was going to see the other player because he was too busy staring at the ball carrier coming up field, planing his own "maiming" hit. Schuster hit him to defend his teammate with the ball, and would have still hit him had Burfict bothered to look and see him, so the "coward" comment is absurd.
A player cannot be expected to determine whether the other guy is consciously aware of him and mentally ready to get hit. Hitting the player from the front is the best you can do, and Schuster did.

 

[TSwizzle]

And what you are claiming is no more true of that hit than dozens of hits every single game.

Bullshit.

 

[bilby]

You will not see a change. Some sports are more barbarically primitive than others... This is the second worse of them (boxing being the basest). This is some dumb shit that a lot (majority?) of Americans seem to enjoy watching... I'd say go ahead and stop watching it... the Bronze Age is over... enough with the Gladiators in Arenas already.

Second worst? Seriously? At least American Football players wear armour.

Rugby players wear no helmets or padding; sometimes players will wind some tape around their heads to prevent their ears from being torn off; and most of them wear gum shields these days to stop their teeth being knocked out, but that's it.

And don't get started on Australian Rules Football, Gaelic Football, or Hurling (all three of which are very similar to one another, with the exception that in Hurling, players are armed with big sticks).

There are plenty of sports more barbaric than American Football.

 

[Malintent]

You will not see a change. Some sports are more barbarically primitive than others... This is the second worse of them (boxing being the basest). This is some dumb shit that a lot (majority?) of Americans seem to enjoy watching... I'd say go ahead and stop watching it... the Bronze Age is over... enough with the Gladiators in Arenas already.

Rugby and Soccer have plenty of concussions and other serious injury. So, you are basically attacking the vast majority of the human population for the competitive sport they enjoy. Even many non-contact sports or just recreational activities have plenty of concussions and other equally serious risk that don't get all the hysteria. Most pro skiiers and snowboarders have had several concussions. Life has risks.

where do you snowboard that people bash each other over the heads with their boards? I suppose you play chess by shoving their Queen up your opponent's ass? and in soccer, how many times do you have to kick someone in the face to score a point, again?

But seriously... you are having a problem with logical composition. You apparently like football, so to defend enjoyment of it you categorize a comment "this sport is bad because of intentional injuries by design" as "all things that can injure the head must be demonized"

What do you call that form of whataboutism? I only know it as "fallacy of composition" and "categorical bias"

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You will not see a change. Some sports are more barbarically primitive than others... This is the second worse of them (boxing being the basest). This is some dumb shit that a lot (majority?) of Americans seem to enjoy watching... I'd say go ahead and stop watching it... the Bronze Age is over... enough with the Gladiators in Arenas already.

I don't mind a bit of physical rough and tumble. I enjoy boxing too. What I object to is the nasty, cowardly hits on essentially defenseless opponents with the intent to do serious harm.

Intentional harm is bad. Don't harm on purpose.