Nuts and Bolts of Nuclear War (split from Ukraine Reaction thread)

[bilby]

During the Cod War there was always a sense of impending doom in the background.

I dunno, I lived through the Cod War, and it was only a real issue if you were a North Atlantic fisherman.

We were never really frightened by the Icelandic threat. I for one welcomed our piscetarean overlords.

 

[Swammerdami]

If he is going to die for his blunder anyway. I don't think he has any qualms about taking the rest of humanity with him. He obviously doesn't have a lot of empathy or sympathy for other human beings.

This is why the present situation is more perilous than the Cold War ever was. The Soviet Union was ruled by a Committee with a Chairman selected for loyalty and competence(!). These leaders were part of a system which thought of itself as rational.

But when the nuclear button is turned over to a psychopath like Kim, Trump or Putin, the psychopath may decide, if he's going down anyway, that taking millions of lives with him is ideal for celebrating his personal narcissism.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But when the nuclear button is turned over to a psychopath like Kim, Trump or Putin, the psychopath may decide, if he's going down anyway, that taking millions of lives with him is ideal for celebrating his personal narcissism.

There's a very good reason the US military has the two-man rule in all dealings with nuclear weapons.

 

[Swammerdami]

But when the nuclear button is turned over to a psychopath like Kim, Trump or Putin, the psychopath may decide, if he's going down anyway, that taking millions of lives with him is ideal for celebrating his personal narcissism.

There's a very good reason the US military has the two-man rule in all dealings with nuclear weapons.

Okay. But let's suppose, for grins, that DJT#45 DID order a nuclear strike and two Air Force officers are charged to activate and launch an ICBM. One might HOPE that an average such pair of Army officers would usually have one who understood that Trump was an insipid psychopath.

I think it's as likely that BOTH American officers would turn their switches, reasoning: "Duuh! Prez Trump is telling us we gotta to do it. He knows what's best."

I think we're seeing that Russian grunts do not trust or value Putin so much. Their system may be immune to drunken Putin. OTOH Devotion to Trump, at least among 45% of white males, resembles devotion to the Korean Kim: We are severely fortunate that Trump was never tested as Biden is being tested now.

 

[steve_bank]

If Trump had ordered a nuclear strike for no reason it would be up to the Joint Chiefs to keep it from happening. Legally the military has the right to refuse an illegitimate order, like starting a nuclear wa or doing what Putin is doing in Ukraine intentionally targeting civilians.

 

[bilby]

If Trump had ordered a nuclear strike for no reason it would be up to the Joint Chiefs to keep it from happening. Legally the military has the right to refuse an illegitimate order, like starting a nuclear wa or doing what Putin is doing in Ukraine intentionally targeting civilians.

Sure. But the PotUS has the authority to use nuclear weapons, so any order to do so would not be an illegitimate order, unless it was established that the President was medically incompetent, or acting under duress.

The Joint Chiefs, the President's non-military advisors, his political staff, his family, and even his astrologer can all attempt to persuade him to change his mind, but ultimately he has the authority and legal right to make the final decision - that's the entire point of having a President at all.

If you want to live in a country where executive decisions are made, not by a single individual elected to make those decisions, but rather by a panel of unelected military officers, then you will need to amend your constitution. Because right now, even a unanimous decision by the Joint Chiefs to disobey a Presidential order would be unconstitutional and treasonous.

It might well happen; And it would be a good thing if it did; But it wouldn't be legal. It would be a military coup.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

But when the nuclear button is turned over to a psychopath like Kim, Trump or Putin, the psychopath may decide, if he's going down anyway, that taking millions of lives with him is ideal for celebrating his personal narcissism.

There's a very good reason the US military has the two-man rule in all dealings with nuclear weapons.

Okay. But let's suppose, for grins, that DJT#45 DID order a nuclear strike and two Air Force officers are charged to activate and launch an ICBM. One might HOPE that an average such pair of Army officers would usually have one who understood that Trump was an insipid psychopath.

I think it's as likely that BOTH American officers would turn their switches, reasoning: "Duuh! Prez Trump is telling us we gotta to do it. He knows what's best."

I think we're seeing that Russian grunts do not trust or value Putin so much. Their system may be immune to drunken Putin. OTOH Devotion to Trump, at least among 45% of white males, resembles devotion to the Korean Kim: We are severely fortunate that Trump was never tested as Biden is being tested now.

It's not the guys in the silos that are relevant in this case--IIRC it's president + one cabinet member to order the strike in the first place. Then it takes both people in the silo turning their keys to actually send the bird.

 

[Angra Mainyu]

I think it's as likely that BOTH American officers would turn their switches, reasoning: "Duuh! Prez Trump is telling us we gotta to do it. He knows what's best."

More likely, I think, would be something like 'a firing order '

But when the nuclear button is turned over to a psychopath like Kim, Trump or Putin, the psychopath may decide, if he's going down anyway, that taking millions of lives with him is ideal for celebrating his personal narcissism.

There's a very good reason the US military has the two-man rule in all dealings with nuclear weapons.

Okay. But let's suppose, for grins, that DJT#45 DID order a nuclear strike and two Air Force officers are charged to activate and launch an ICBM. One might HOPE that an average such pair of Army officers would usually have one who understood that Trump was an insipid psychopath.

I think it's as likely that BOTH American officers would turn their switches, reasoning: "Duuh! Prez Trump is telling us we gotta to do it. He knows what's best."

I think we're seeing that Russian grunts do not trust or value Putin so much. Their system may be immune to drunken Putin. OTOH Devotion to Trump, at least among 45% of white males, resembles devotion to the Korean Kim: We are severely fortunate that Trump was never tested as Biden is being tested now.

It's not the guys in the silos that are relevant in this case--IIRC it's president + one cabinet member to order the strike in the first place. Then it takes both people in the silo turning their keys to actually send the bird.

But whom do the guys in the silos get the order from? Directly from the president + cabinet member, or from a general that is between them and the president in the chain of command?

 

[Jarhyn]

But when the nuclear button is turned over to a psychopath like Kim, Trump or Putin, the psychopath may decide, if he's going down anyway, that taking millions of lives with him is ideal for celebrating his personal narcissism.

There's a very good reason the US military has the two-man rule in all dealings with nuclear weapons.

Okay. But let's suppose, for grins, that DJT#45 DID order a nuclear strike and two Air Force officers are charged to activate and launch an ICBM. One might HOPE that an average such pair of Army officers would usually have one who understood that Trump was an insipid psychopath.

I think it's as likely that BOTH American officers would turn their switches, reasoning: "Duuh! Prez Trump is telling us we gotta to do it. He knows what's best."

I think we're seeing that Russian grunts do not trust or value Putin so much. Their system may be immune to drunken Putin. OTOH Devotion to Trump, at least among 45% of white males, resembles devotion to the Korean Kim: We are severely fortunate that Trump was never tested as Biden is being tested now.

It's not the guys in the silos that are relevant in this case--IIRC it's president + one cabinet member to order the strike in the first place. Then it takes both people in the silo turning their keys to actually send the bird.

... You saw what that guy kept in his cabinet, ya?

 

[TomC]

If Trump had ordered a nuclear strike for no reason it would be up to the Joint Chiefs to keep it from happening. Legally the military has the right to refuse an illegitimate order, like starting a nuclear wa or doing what Putin is doing in Ukraine intentionally targeting civilians.

Well, Bush did manage to get his invasion.

More to the point, imagine if Trump had been president for 20+ years. Would there still be anybody left willing to oppose him and nuclear destruction?
I'm not at all sure there would be.
Tom