Obamacare - Confessions of an MIT Bunko Artist, Jon Gruber

[maxparrish]

Jon Gruber video confessions on Obamacare scamming is becoming so plentiful they ought to schedule it into a season of reality TV. The fellow who was caught twice on video confirming that Obamacare actually was designed to deny tax credits and premium support in States that refused to establish exchanges has been caught on camera again, this time in THREE videos confessing to different audiences that obfuscation, and well placed lies, were necessary to fool the average "stupid" American into supporting the reform.

No sooner than he attempted to repair the damage from discovery of his first video confession of an Obamacare bamboozle, a second and then a third video was discovered...making a plea of temporary insanity or drug overdose less than viable.

GOP Rep. Jim Jordan: Maybe it’s time for House hearings on Jon Gruber’s ObamaCare remarks

A fine idea. Democrats will whine that the new GOP is the same as the old GOP, obsessed as ever with revisiting old ObamaCare business, but that message can and will be countered by sending a few splashy bills to Obama’s desk, starting with Keystone.

Good things happen for conservatives when the subject of O-Care comes up and Jon Gruber’s piehole is anywhere near a microphone. Let’s sit him down in front of one on Capitol Hill, with live coverage on the cable networks, and go over in detail just how stupid the architect of Obama’s giant health-care boondoggle thinks American voters are.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/...se-hearings-on-jon-grubers-obamacare-remarks/

Yep, time to bring in the GOP's grand inquisitor, Trey Gowdy.

 

[bigfield]

So by holding a House hearings on Jon Gruber’s Obamacare remarks, Jordan hopes to embarrass some Democrat members of Congress into supporting some Republican changes to the ACA, plus score some political points for the GOP in Louisiana.

Gruber's comment about the 'stupidity' of American voters is pretty awful, but it reminded me of Rhea dealing with the local conservatives who want to shut down a library because they say it is bad for the community: There is a large number of politically-empowered people in the USA who want some really stupid things.

Lying to the public about a piece of legislation in order to get it passed is a corruption of the democratic process, and is unjustifiable. But let's not pretend that the GOP's reaction to Gruber's statements is anything but an attempt to score some political points, and tell their own lies to American voters about the ACA.

 

[arkirk]

Jon Gruber video confessions on Obamacare scamming is becoming so plentiful they ought to schedule it into a season of reality TV. The fellow who was caught twice on video confirming that Obamacare actually was designed to deny tax credits and premium support in States that refused to establish exchanges has been caught on camera again, this time in THREE videos confessing to different audiences that obfuscation, and well placed lies, were necessary to fool the average "stupid" American into supporting the reform.

No sooner than he attempted to repair the damage from discovery of his first video confession of an Obamacare bamboozle, a second and then a third video was discovered...making a plea of temporary insanity or drug overdose less than viable.

GOP Rep. Jim Jordan: Maybe it’s time for House hearings on Jon Gruber’s ObamaCare remarks

A fine idea. Democrats will whine that the new GOP is the same as the old GOP, obsessed as ever with revisiting old ObamaCare business, but that message can and will be countered by sending a few splashy bills to Obama’s desk, starting with Keystone.

Good things happen for conservatives when the subject of O-Care comes up and Jon Gruber’s piehole is anywhere near a microphone. Let’s sit him down in front of one on Capitol Hill, with live coverage on the cable networks, and go over in detail just how stupid the architect of Obama’s giant health-care boondoggle thinks American voters are.

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/11/...se-hearings-on-jon-grubers-obamacare-remarks/

Yep, time to bring in the GOP's grand inquisitor, Trey Gowdy.

So was Gruber actually pivotal in the passage of Obamacare...or was he just ONE OF A CHORUS OF CHIRPING SALESMEN? Some of us seem to feed on scandal of only one party. It is hard to generate any interest in this story as the Republicans and Insurance Lobbyists and Pharma Lobbyists have made the program a lot less useful to the American people anyway. When 2016 arrives after two years of typical Republican sabotage of pretty much any social program they can reach, that party will have shot virtually all its marbles and the Democrats will probably take over with seats to spare. If you look at the Republican agenda...cutting funding for social programs, education, health, etc. and giving the rich even deeper tax cuts...it will be hard to imagine any young working class person voting for them. Its a shame that our government can only have warts in somebody's view.

Robert Reich seems to think that a heavily democratic House and Senate could clean up and make the healthcare bill a good thing for the American people. The few remaining Republicans will immediately rename the program Hillarycare. Now that's a view lots of people have. Only slightly more than 30% of the electorate voted in the election earlier this month. Their sweeping victory will look like nothing because all they can do is cut the effectiveness of the government. It's a real shame that they can only see Hillary there and not Warren or Sanders...but things will be better even with a corporate shill like Hillary at the wheel. Unfortunately we have to school her in diplomacy. She will not be good for our foreign policy.

 

[untermensche]

Lying to the public about a piece of legislation in order to get it passed is a corruption of the democratic process, and is unjustifiable.

The public didn't vote on the Affordable Care Act.

Politicians beholden to corporate masters did.

That is why the public option was removed. That was not the choice of the public.

 

[dismal]

So by holding a House hearings on Jon Gruber’s Obamacare remarks, Jordan hopes to embarrass some Democrat members of Congress into supporting some Republican changes to the ACA, plus score some political points for the GOP in Louisiana.

Gruber's comment about the 'stupidity' of American voters is pretty awful, but it reminded me of Rhea dealing with the local conservatives who want to shut down a library because they say it is bad for the community: There is a large number of politically-empowered people in the USA who want some really stupid things.

Lying to the public about a piece of legislation in order to get it passed is a corruption of the democratic process, and is unjustifiable. But let's not pretend that the GOP's reaction to Gruber's statements is anything but an attempt to score some political points, and tell their own lies to American voters about the ACA.

I think you miss the point. The left's narrative all along is that the right has been spreading misinformation to cause the unpopularity of Obamacare. The reality is the left tried to cram a bunch of lies down people's throats and got called on it. Gruber really does nothing but confirm things that many people already knew. It should be people on the left having an "aha" moment over this.

Like maybe a "I shouldn't be relentlessly defending the obvious and known flaws in this law for 18 pages on internet forums" kinda moment.

He's calling you* stupid, not me.

*not you bigfield, you mindless obamacare defender.

 

[laughing dog]

It is wrong to lie and to deliberately obsfucate in order to get legislation through Congress. It is wrong to do to pass ACA just as it was wrong to do to pass the expansion of Medicare. However, it is not wrong to point out that a large portion of the US electorate is ignorant and/or stupid.

 

[maxparrish]

Journalist Debra Heine suggests we now have some new words added to the American lexicon:

To "gruber" is to lie to someone because you think they're too dumb to know any different. It is to insult your own base because they have proved so easy to deceive in the past.

"Grubering" is the act of brainstorming for new ways to fool the voters.

A "gruberism" is a lie told by a Democrat politician that is so brazen, so hackish, so unbelievable, it reveals a complete contempt on the part of the politician toward his supporters.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So by holding a House hearings on Jon Gruber’s Obamacare remarks, Jordan hopes to embarrass some Democrat members of Congress into supporting some Republican changes to the ACA, plus score some political points for the GOP in Louisiana.

Gruber's comment about the 'stupidity' of American voters is pretty awful, but it reminded me of Rhea dealing with the local conservatives who want to shut down a library because they say it is bad for the community: There is a large number of politically-empowered people in the USA who want some really stupid things.

Lying to the public about a piece of legislation in order to get it passed is a corruption of the democratic process, and is unjustifiable. But let's not pretend that the GOP's reaction to Gruber's statements is anything but an attempt to score some political points, and tell their own lies to American voters about the ACA.

I think you miss the point. The left's narrative all along is that the right has been spreading misinformation to cause the unpopularity of Obamacare.

Like "death panels"? That no one would be able to keep their doctor?

 

[Keith&Co.]

I think you miss the point. The left's narrative all along is that the right has been spreading misinformation to cause the unpopularity of Obamacare.

Like "death panels"? That no one would be able to keep their doctor?

Clearly you don't understand.
If a liberal has lied on a topic, that means it's a fact that the conservatives were not lying at all on the topic.
The Flying Fickle Finger of Blame can only point in one direction at a time.

 

[dismal]

I think you miss the point. The left's narrative all along is that the right has been spreading misinformation to cause the unpopularity of Obamacare.

Like "death panels"? That no one would be able to keep their doctor?

I'm sure there are examples of idiots on the right saying things that aren't true. This doesn't change the point that virtually everything main selling point used to sell Obamacare was a lie or distortion.

However, I think it is obvious that big government healthcare requires death panels. I would be more afraid of government healthcare without death panels than with.

If the big government healthcare supporters were honest they'd have been like "fuck yeah there are going to be death panels do you know how much money we piss away on healthcare that does not improve outcomes". So, amusingly enough the specific example you picked I would score as an example of dishonesty.

 

[Sabine Grant]

It is wrong to lie and to deliberately obsfucate in order to get legislation through Congress. It is wrong to do to pass ACA just as it was wrong to do to pass the expansion of Medicare. However, it is not wrong to point out that a large portion of the US electorate is ignorant and/or stupid.

A large portion of the US electorate is unfortunately too intellectually lazy to do their homework and discern lies from truths.

Truth: the so called "stupid" category I would belong to experiences now the reality of being able to afford an insurance plan meeting my medical needs. Whereas, the same "stupid" category I would belong to, did not prior to January 1st 2014.

Truth : the same so called "stupid" category I would belong to is well aware that opponents to the AHCA have yet to present a viable alternative which would guarantee that the same "stupid" category I would belong to can have access to affordable and adequate insurance plans meeting their vital medical needs.

Truth : most of the same "stupid" category I would belong to supports further steps towards a single payer system. Same category of "stupid" I would belong to does not consider the AHCA to be an actual reform, rather an improvement from a stagnating status where the same "stupid" category I would belong to were stuck with inadequate plans which did not meet their vital medical needs.

Lies : all the anti ACAH propaganda revolving around so called horror stories of working Americans losing their original plans. A sample of such propaganda being Mitch McConnell victory speech in which he made mention of his "promise" to a working single mother whose" plan was taken away by the government". Propaganda intended to portray working Americans as being victimized by the government.

Then of course as the terms of the AHCA were still in progress before coming to the attention of legislators via Congress, all the lies responding to the mention of a "public option", the "death panels" mantra being one of the most notorious. All the lies regarding the quality and efficacy of single payer and UHC systems in nations like Canada. All those lies intended to portray them as failing to address adequately and efficiently the medical needs of their populations (to note that if Canada and the UK became targets of opportunities, France was somehow spared).

Deceptive wording : the term "affordable" remains ambiguous because if people can now contract an insurance plan without facing the prospect of rejection or being "dumped", except for HMO plans (under the Exchanges), they still face very high deductibles and substantial co pays which will result in accumulated medical debts. However even under such conditions, they will still be able to access VITAL medical care rather than facing non access due to the inability to afford out of pocket astronomical amounts. Truth being that since January 2014, we saved 70.000 dollars representative of what we would have had to shell out of pocket for my access to oncology based treatments/procedures and tests. The total amount of my co pays since January being 6400 dollars. With the guarantee of 100% RX coverage of the monoclonal pharma drug I depend on to restore and further maintain my remission status.

How millions of Americans have been indoctrinated to believe that health care is to be an industry and under a system intended to generate profit IMO is what has made those same millions hesitant to challenge such status quo. So many of them digesting the lies perpetrated by legislators who do not have the best interest and welfare of medically needy Americans at heart.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Like "death panels"? That no one would be able to keep their doctor?

I'm sure there are examples of idiots on the right saying things that aren't true. This doesn't change the point that virtually everything main selling point used to sell Obamacare was a lie or distortion.

However, I think it is obvious that big government healthcare requires death panels. I would be more afraid of government healthcare without death panels than with.

Document how the French health care system "requires death panels". Since you claim that "big government health care requires death panels".

If the big government healthcare supporters were honest they'd have been like "fuck yeah there are going to be death panels do you know how much money we piss away on healthcare that does not improve outcomes". So, amusingly enough the specific example you picked I would score as an example of dishonesty.

Point to where such claims apply to the 19.000 members who support :

http://www.pnhp.org/

Mind you that contrary to you they are health care professionals.

 

[dismal]

I'm sure there are examples of idiots on the right saying things that aren't true. This doesn't change the point that virtually everything main selling point used to sell Obamacare was a lie or distortion.

However, I think it is obvious that big government healthcare requires death panels. I would be more afraid of government healthcare without death panels than with.

Document how the French health care system "requires death panels". Since you claim that "big government health care requires death panels".

There is no government agency that makes decisions about what is covered?

Everyone just goes in and gets whatever they want paid for by the state?

 

[ZiprHead]

Journalist Debra Heine suggests we now have some new words added to the American lexicon:

To "gruber" is to lie to someone because you think they're too dumb to know any different. It is to insult your own base because they have proved so easy to deceive in the past.

"Grubering" is the act of brainstorming for new ways to fool the voters.

A "gruberism" is a lie told by a Democrat politician that is so brazen, so hackish, so unbelievable, it reveals a complete contempt on the part of the politician toward his supporters.

I thought that was called a TEA party organizer.

 

[maxparrish]

Journalist Debra Heine suggests we now have some new words added to the American lexicon:

To "gruber" is to lie to someone because you think they're too dumb to know any different. It is to insult your own base because they have proved so easy to deceive in the past.

"Grubering" is the act of brainstorming for new ways to fool the voters.

A "gruberism" is a lie told by a Democrat politician that is so brazen, so hackish, so unbelievable, it reveals a complete contempt on the part of the politician toward his supporters.

I thought that was called a TEA party organizer.

Whoops, Gruber Video Number 4 turned up. Turns out that a fellow who had his insurance canceled and his rates skyrocket has been so pissed off he is now relentlessly searching every video ever made on Gruber's Obamacare promises. A research stalker...who won't let go.

Interesting.

 

[Sabine Grant]

Document how the French health care system "requires death panels". Since you claim that "big government health care requires death panels".

There is no government agency that makes decisions about what is covered?

You made the claim of "death panels". You are now challenged to support it. FYI, in France despite of my being diagnosed with an incurable type of lymphoma, I still benefit of 100% coverage. Covering all necessary treatments (infusions of a monoclonal and added conventional chemo if it mutates to the high grade or aggressive), covering all imaging tests, all blood panels and weekly CBCs during infusions. In the US, prior to the AHCA, the insurance companies "death panels" would not touch it with a ten foot pole. Got it?

Everyone just goes in and gets whatever they want paid for by the state?

You are ducking from your original claim. I have challenged you to document that the French health care system has "death panels". "death panels" would apply to medically needy persons necessitating vital medical care to where obstructing their access to such care would result in a fatal outcome. I am asking you once more : document how France has "death panels".

Considering all illnesses and conditions under "catastrophic" benefit of 100% coverage( such illnesses fall under the category of ALD or "affections de longue durée") explain how that would be a reflection of a health care system with "death panels".

Under the term "affections de longue durée" are included chronic conditions such as cancer, diabetes, HIV sero positive, MS etc... Added to ALD are grave or severe illnesses which necessitate lengthy and costly treatments. Once the patient has recovered, they also benefit of 100% coverage for para clinical and rehabilitative services.

I have yet to have encountered any person in my own country being affected by any of the above being turned down for 100% coverage. I have had PLENTY of experience with my own relatives unfortunately affected by an ALD.

Our health care system is understood and embraced as a SERVICE, not a profit centered hyper privatized industry. Medically needy persons are patients, not viewed as consumers.The more medically needy, the more access to health care.

So, where are those "death panels", dismal?

 

[bigfield]

So by holding a House hearings on Jon Gruber’s Obamacare remarks, Jordan hopes to embarrass some Democrat members of Congress into supporting some Republican changes to the ACA, plus score some political points for the GOP in Louisiana.

Gruber's comment about the 'stupidity' of American voters is pretty awful, but it reminded me of Rhea dealing with the local conservatives who want to shut down a library because they say it is bad for the community: There is a large number of politically-empowered people in the USA who want some really stupid things.

Lying to the public about a piece of legislation in order to get it passed is a corruption of the democratic process, and is unjustifiable. But let's not pretend that the GOP's reaction to Gruber's statements is anything but an attempt to score some political points, and tell their own lies to American voters about the ACA.

I think you miss the point. The left's narrative all along is that the right has been spreading misinformation to cause the unpopularity of Obamacare. The reality is the left tried to cram a bunch of lies down people's throats and got called on it. Gruber really does nothing but confirm things that many people already knew. It should be people on the left having an "aha" moment over this.

It is true the the right has been spreading misinformation; you can't fault the left for that. Gruber's statements just prove that the the Democrats are hypocrites.

Like maybe a "I shouldn't be relentlessly defending the obvious and known flaws in this law for 18 pages on internet forums" kinda moment.

I can think of one good reason to defend the ACA despite it's massive flaws: the American people will be better off, both economically and in terms of quality of life.

He's calling you* stupid, not me.

*not you bigfield, you mindless obamacare defender.

I've been called worse.

 

[bigfield]

Lying to the public about a piece of legislation in order to get it passed is a corruption of the democratic process, and is unjustifiable.

The public didn't vote on the Affordable Care Act.

Politicians beholden to corporate masters did.

That is why the public option was removed. That was not the choice of the public.

Too cryptic to respond to.

 

[Jarhyn]

I'd much rather have government death panels than corporate death panels. I'd rather have a death panel than a mafioso asshole in a dark room saying "so you wanna live? Whatcha got to pay for it?"

The reality of insurance is that no matter what is done there will be a death panel somewhere. I would far rather have it be egalitarian and unbiased towards social class than driven by the greed of the market.

 

[dismal]

So, where are those "death panels", dismal?

You are conducting this discussion as if it can be assumed everyone is familiar with the medical system in France.

I am asking you questions about it because I am not familiar with it.

Let me try again:

Is there anyone anywhere in the French medical system who will ever deny me any medical care that I want paid for by the state?

If I feel like it can I decide to have a sex change operation and a lobotomy while on my death bed from 6 different kinds of cancer and an open chest wound?