Oberlin student worried she's appropriating her own culture

[Crazy Eddie]

It's a source of never-ending amusement since Aussies call those prawns, not shrimp, and barbeque prawns is actually fairly uncommon. Nevertheless, Yanks love the "shrimp on the barbie" line, and so Fosters must have been getting in on the fun.

Maybe the shrimp on the barbie thing started with Fosters......

Probably did. Beer companies cannot appropriate culture, but cultures can and do appropriate beer.

 

[Metaphor]

Yes, of course, we know that. A single counter-example to a claim, though, can disprove it.

You and I both know what my claim was, and it was obviously not anything like 'you can assault and rape people and you're not harming anybody'. The context of my claim was copying a cultural idea/celebrating a holiday, and doing it the way that appeals to you personally.

Of course, anything that already harms somebody, like assaulting them, still applies.

Therefore you cannot give carte blanche authorization to do whatever you want to express your holiday (religion).

If you take the entire sentence out of context, you might be able to dishonestly imply that that's what I've endorsed.

A single example of something that is okay does not prove a claim.

Our friend Cyrus, and 'cultural appropriation' warriors seem to think that it's not okay to do that. Do you agree with them?

What you're trying to say is that "appropriation doesn't harm anyone ever," but at least in your op you haven't given any convincing argument for that claim.

Actually my claim is a bit different. In the first place, I reject the coherence of cultural appropriation as an idea. But, even if I allow the terms of the debate to be framed by the cultural appropriation hystericals, even working within those terms, yes, I believe that cultural appropriation harms nobody (hurt feelings alone don't count).

But if you simply want to point score and equate 'cultural appropriation harms nobody' with 'cultural appropriation + physical assault harms people', I guess I can't stop you.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

You and I both know what my claim was, and it was obviously not anything like 'you can assault and rape people and you're not harming anybody'. The context of my claim was copying a cultural idea/celebrating a holiday, and doing it the way that appeals to you personally.

Of course, anything that already harms somebody, like assaulting them, still applies.

Therefore you cannot give carte blanche authorization to do whatever you want to express your holiday (religion).

If you take the entire sentence out of context, you might be able to dishonestly imply that that's what I've endorsed.

A single example of something that is okay does not prove a claim.

Our friend Cyrus, and 'cultural appropriation' warriors seem to think that it's not okay to do that. Do you agree with them?

What you're trying to say is that "appropriation doesn't harm anyone ever," but at least in your op you haven't given any convincing argument for that claim.

Actually my claim is a bit different. In the first place, I reject the coherence of cultural appropriation as an idea. But, even if I allow the terms of the debate to be framed by the cultural appropriation hystericals, even working within those terms, yes, I believe that cultural appropriation harms nobody (hurt feelings alone don't count).

But if you simply want to point score and equate 'cultural appropriation harms nobody' with 'cultural appropriation + physical assault harms people', I guess I can't stop you.

In other words, you are not going to produce a rational argument as to why cultural appropriation is never harmful to anyone, you are only going to reassert your claim in various forms while attacking what I wrote in question to your claim.

 

[Metaphor]

In other words, you are not going to produce a rational argument as to why cultural appropriation is never harmful to anyone, you are only going to reassert your claim in various forms while attacking what I wrote in question to your claim.

Cultural appropriation is never harmful, and you pretending 'cultural appropriation' = 'cultural appropriation + assault' does not change my claim.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

In other words, you are not going to produce a rational argument as to why cultural appropriation is never harmful to anyone, you are only going to reassert your claim in various forms while attacking what I wrote in question to your claim.

Cultural appropriation is never harmful, and you pretending 'cultural appropriation' = 'cultural appropriation + assault' does not change my claim.

I am not pretending anything and once again, the burden is on you to demonstrate your thesis:
"Cultural appropriation is never harmful..."

Please actually submit an argument so we can look at it. Maybe you are right. Who knows.

 

[Metaphor]

Cultural appropriation is never harmful, and you pretending 'cultural appropriation' = 'cultural appropriation + assault' does not change my claim.

I am not pretending anything and once again, the burden is on you to demonstrate your thesis:
"Cultural appropriation is never harmful..."

Please actually submit an argument so we can look at it. Maybe you are right. Who knows.

I've made my argument in prior threads a number of times, but in a nutshell, copying an idea does not harm the person you copied it from. In very limited, defined circumstances, there are legal protections for intellectual property, but a culture is not anybody's intellectual property, so those legal protections are not evidence that copying an idea harms people.

 

[Nexus]

Also, how did you so successfully identify the Cologne group of assaulters? Do you have access to information the rest of us do not?

Muslims can do no wrong ergo its wasn't Muslim assailants.

 

[Arctish]

So you think most people in college (and in many if not most cases living out of mommy and daddy's pockets with few if any real world worries) between the ages of 17 and 22 are whiny, see themselves as victims and are outraged over stupid stuff?

Gee I wonder why that is?

Between the ages of 10 and 25, the brain undergoes changes that have important implications for behavior (see Cognitive development below). The brain reaches 90% of its adult size by the time a person is six years of age.[58] Thus, the brain does not grow in size much during adolescence. However, the creases in the brain continue to become more complex until the late teens. The biggest changes in the folds of the brain during this time occur in the parts of the cortex that process cognitive and emotional information​

 Adolescence

I think this gets to the heart of the matter.

The latter teen years and early 20s are prime time for questioning one's identity, values, and beliefs. Most folks here who have shared their deconversion stories talk about how they first started to seriously question their faith when they were in high school or college. The same is true for a lot of gays who have shared their stories of coming out. High school and college are when it appears to happen most frequently.

The author of the article in the OP is talking about determining what is truly important to her, and why. She's talking about her personal and cultural identity. She's talking about publicly expressing her cultural identity and personal beliefs, and having her sincerity challenged. Those are legitimate issues calling for introspection and making choices, and her age is an appropriate time for both to happen.

I think her uncertainty and identity issues are perfectly normal.

Regarding her thoughts on the Dia de los Muertos shrine for a dog: years ago, on a previous incarnation of this board, there was a thread posted in which a US Army veteran was sharing a report that the remains of US servicemen were being cremated at a facility that also cremated dogs and cats. He was pretty upset. A lot of other posters were somewhat baffled by the strength of his reaction since the quoted article made it clear that the pet remains were handled in a different building than the human remains. To him, sending the bodies of soldiers killed in action to that place was treating them like dogs. To others, sending the remains of beloved pets to that facility was treating them like family.

I think the Oberlin college student's reaction to seeing a dog commemorated in a Dia de los Muertos shrine was just like that veteran's reaction. They are both coming from the same place, where dogs ≠ people, and equating them indicates a lack of respect for people you cherish who've died.

 

[Toni]

You might care if you were young, thousands of miles away from home, on your own for the first time and were confronted with the dominant culture attempting to impose whatever cultural stereotypes they had on YOU.

In what way was she imposed on? Is having to see something, 'imposing' it? This reminds me of homophobes saying they're not homophobes but do those nasty gays have to rub it in their face all the time, by, you know, holding hands and being secondary characters on tv shows?

I don't really get that she's claiming that she's imposed upon. She's writing from the perspective of not truly feeling as though she belongs to either the Mexican culture in which she grew up or in the midwest American culture where she attends school. Each place has its own stereotypes that it, intentionally or not, imposes. She's light skinned so not seen as 'Mexican' but she's Hispanic--Mexican/American and is a bit...upset by what her college is claiming is 'Mexican heritage.'

Look, I find it grating when I hear most British actors affect an American accent, especially in British films. It's grating and sometimes a little offensive. Especially when Americans are depicted as loud, boorish, under-educated buffoons. I am sure that the very bad British accents American actors affect are equally grating. Or Australian or French or German or...whatever, just as depicting the British as being cold and uptight, the French as sex obsessed cowards, the Germans as overly organized and rigid with Nazi undertones and the Australians as unsophisticated hardbodies who wrestle crocodiles for their dinner and walk around with Koalas on their shoulders and have a pet kangaroo and would never bother to read..literature are all a bit offensive because they all rely on very broad stereotypes. It's easy to brush off in a film--you can turn it off or laugh at it. When you are surrounded by such stereotypes when far from home and very young, it can be overwhelming.

I just clicked on the second link and would like to say that Antigone's suicide is absolutely essential in that work, but he (this is a trans individual) has a bit of a point about the choice of film by the Spanish prof. Was it necessary or desirable to include a film that depicts rape and suicide if the point of the film was to improve vocabulary and fluency in Spanish. I am rather sick of rape as being a plot point and substituting for character development and/or masquerading as such when it is really there as a cheap thrill for the audience in film and literature. It perpetuates the point of view that women are victims and that women can be victimized and that victimization is legitimate entertainment.

My armchair, very distanced advice would be that a)she should seek some counseling re: her suicidal ideologies and b)she should at the very least suggest that different films would be better suited for the class purposes rather than the film chosen. She probably could suggest any number of alternative films that would be interesting to students and also rich in vocabulary.

But really, I don't see much point in criticizing the opinions of a 20 year old college student at a small liberal arts school in the midwest.

 

[scombrid]

Trigger warning: more unvarnished madness from American academia.

Good Onion title for sure.

But I have some questions.

What is Oberlin College and why should anyone care about it?

I'd never heard about it until people here started posting about it.

Why is it representative of "American academia" as you put here?

I don't see material such as quoted in this opening post coming out of the three state universities that I attended, one of which prides itself on being a liberal arts college.

 

[ideologyhunter]

If you spend an hour in the rarefied air of Oberlin, you'll get it. The long trenchcoat look is still in. These folks take their Outrage Moments as seriously as the Tea Party. It's so politically correct that you could probably offend somebody by your choice of any two or three pronouns in a simple sentence. Some years ago (could've been the 90's), one of the local cafe owners asked a student to vacate one of the outdoor tables because this person had brought his/her own lunch and wanted to sit with friends. Umm .... sort of like you'd be asked to leave any restaurant on the planet, if you BROUGHT YOUR OWN FOOD. This was a minority student -- the episode was built up to a classic racist encounter -- it generated a blizzard of action statements, papers stapled to kiosks and taped to telephone poles, letters to the editor...I lost track of what ultimately happened or how much crow the owner had to eat. Clearly, civilization hung in the balance.
About 5 years ago, a woman who was driving through town late at night claimed she saw someone walking down the sidewalk wearing a Klan hood. You would think the town was under attack -- lots more ink devoted to this -- terror in the student body, thoughts of closing down campus temporarily, police investigation (which turned up no answers.) (It was a strange story as reported in the papers, because her boyfriend was apparently in the car with her, but he was never quoted as a confirming witness. Hard to know what to make of it.)
Interesting town to shop & browse & dine in -- I'm a Democrat, but I wouldn't want to live there.

 

[Metaphor]

What is Oberlin College and why should anyone care about it?

I'd never heard about it until people here started posting about it.

Why is it representative of "American academia" as you put here?

It's not just about Oberlin college; it's merely that I read a few articles from the college's newsletter that I posted. There have been many other incidents at other colleges, many of which are well-known, elite universities (e.g. Yale).

I don't think it is 'representative' of academia, but more that the issues presented appear to be getting increasing prominence in undergraduate life. Oberlin college appears to be one of the more extreme examples. But nothing that I've posted about Oberlin is new -- 'cultural appropriation', trigger warnings, general support for censorship etc, I've come across all too many times before.

 

[Toni]

What is Oberlin College and why should anyone care about it?

I'd never heard about it until people here started posting about it.

Why is it representative of "American academia" as you put here?

It's not just about Oberlin college; it's merely that I read a few articles from the college's newsletter that I posted. There have been many other incidents at other colleges, many of which are well-known, elite universities (e.g. Yale).

I don't think it is 'representative' of academia, but more that the issues presented appear to be getting increasing prominence in undergraduate life. Oberlin college appears to be one of the more extreme examples. But nothing that I've posted about Oberlin is new -- 'cultural appropriation', trigger warnings, general support for censorship etc, I've come across all too many times before.

One of the major forces at work in this and all aspects of university life is finances. The number of potential students--i.e. bodies of individuals 18-22--is shrinking significantly. Universities have begun competing for students and their dollars in some very destructive way. And too often, they are marketing themselves towards over protective parents and kids who are young, not really focused on who/what they want to be as adults (and face it: few are at 18) but who sure do like the idea of (mommy and daddy sponsored) independence from mommy and daddy, complete with all the little luxuries and indulgences of home or at least, popular media. Growing up on a diet of: Those were the best years of my life! and Kids will be kids! (so why not let them binge drink and run amok for 4 years. You're only young once, although these days youth seems to last well into middle age, and at least they aren't doing it at home!

The other, less indulgent thing to keep in mind is that university students are quite often away from home for an extended period of time for the first time. They are no longer surrounded by family and friends from pre-school forward who impose and reinforce a particular identity. Kids have to figure that stuff out for themselves. Given the overwhelming presence and variety of ways to be public in contemplating your naval and your various musings over life, the meaning of life, the meaning of your existence, and so on. Previous generations were lucky: there is no digital permanent record of stupid stuff we said and did when we were young.