Ontario school boards sue Meta, Tik Tok, Snapchat over harms to students

[rousseau]

Four Ontario school boards sue Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok owners over platforms’ alleged harm to students

Toronto and Ottawa area school boards accuse the companies behind Facebook, Instagram, SnapChat and TikTok of using ‘exploitative business practices’ to maximize profits at the expense of students’ mental health and well-being

www.theglobeandmail.com

Four of Canada’s largest school boards are suing the companies behind social-media platforms Facebook, Instagram, SnapChat and TikTok, accusing them of negligently designing products that disrupt learning and rewire student behaviour while leaving educators to manage the fallout.

In four separate statements of claim filed on Wednesday in Ontario’s Superior Court of Justice, the Toronto District School Board, the Toronto Catholic District School Board, the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board and the Peel District School Board accused social-media companies of employing “exploitative business practices” and choosing to “maximize profits” at the expense of the mental health and well-being of students.

The addictive nature of social media means that educators spend more classroom time trying to have students focus on their lessons, the boards say in the statements of claim. They say the compulsive use of social-media platforms has also strained limited school board resources: Schools require additional mental health programs and personnel; staff spend more time addressing aggressive behaviour and incidents of cyberbullying; and information-technology services and cybersecurity costs have increased.

I'm calling it now, social media is the tobacco of the 2000s. The world seriously needs to wake up on this issue.

 

[Toni]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

 

[Jarhyn]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

 

[Toni]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

 

[Jarhyn]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

 

[Toni]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

 

[rousseau]

One of the issues we've found is that technology is literally an extra hand. We have no support from other adults, and they can't roam freely around our property yet, so the only way we can get any type of break is to turn on the TV. We don't have a tablet and don't let them play with our smartphones, they don't watch Youtube, just educational shows on TV.

But imagine the payback a parent gets by giving their kid a tablet? They can play on there for hours and parents don't have to do anything. My wife and I don't over-rely on technology, but it also means that we need to engage our kids from the moment they wake up to the moment they go back to sleep. So you can see why exhausted parents end up just giving their kid a device and calling it a day.

And I agree that it's also an awareness thing. A lot of people take the internet and technology at face value - it's just a thing we do - and they'll learn what they need to in school. They don't realize that they're the primary educator of their kids in all aspects of their lives.

 

[Jarhyn]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

 

[Toni]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

All true but my observation is that kids getting into parents’ liquor cabinets is largely overlooked and even laughed at —until someone dies. CPS is already hugely overburdened and not necessarily who anyone wants involved with people they love. Not always the case but….

I do NOT disagree with you one tiny bit about the necessity! I’m just not certain of how to go about universally limiting screen time for kids.

 

[Jarhyn]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

All true but my observation is that kids getting into parents’ liquor cabinets is largely overlooked and even laughed at —until someone dies. CPS is already hugely overburdened and not necessarily who anyone wants involved with people they love. Not always the case but….

I do NOT disagree with you one tiny bit about the necessity! I’m just not certain of how to go about universally limiting screen time for kids.

Well, to me that starts with properly funding the CPS.

 

[rousseau]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

You might have to think a little more about the logistics of not letting your kids access the internet. It's essentially impossible to do unless you have no devices in your home.

We do plan to limit ours quite extremely, but the dam is going to burst eventually. And this is a best case scenario.

 

[Jarhyn]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

You might have to think a little more about the logistics of not letting your kids access the internet. It's essentially impossible to do unless you have no devices in your home.

We do plan to limit ours quite extremely, but the dam is going to burst eventually. And this is a best case scenario.

It's actually pretty easy. You put a strong password on your computer. You log out when you're done using it.

You keep track of your phone.

Eventually, you're right: kids will get onto the internet.

I would hope by that point I'm time there have been many supervised uses of the internet, discussions about how to stay safe, how to identify addictive but fruitless behaviors, some educational dabblings in addictive but useless behaviors, and so on. I would like to see a whole class put together for 14 or 15 year olds on the internet as much as I would like to see a class for 8-11 year olds that discusses puberty.

It's an important part about our growing world and a lot of that class on the internet needs to be about learning to discern scams and manipulation and propaganda.

 

[ZiprHead]

Four Ontario school boards sue Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok owners over platforms’ alleged harm to students

Toronto and Ottawa area school boards accuse the companies behind Facebook, Instagram, SnapChat and TikTok of using ‘exploitative business practices’ to maximize profits at the expense of students’ mental health and well-being

www.theglobeandmail.com

Four of Canada’s largest school boards are suing the companies behind social-media platforms Facebook, Instagram, SnapChat and TikTok, accusing them of negligently designing products that disrupt learning and rewire student behaviour while leaving educators to manage the fallout.

In four separate statements of claim filed on Wednesday in Ontario’s Superior Court of Justice, the Toronto District School Board, the Toronto Catholic District School Board, the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board and the Peel District School Board accused social-media companies of employing “exploitative business practices” and choosing to “maximize profits” at the expense of the mental health and well-being of students.

The addictive nature of social media means that educators spend more classroom time trying to have students focus on their lessons, the boards say in the statements of claim. They say the compulsive use of social-media platforms has also strained limited school board resources: Schools require additional mental health programs and personnel; staff spend more time addressing aggressive behaviour and incidents of cyberbullying; and information-technology services and cybersecurity costs have increased.

I'm calling it now, social media is the tobacco of the 2000s. The world seriously needs to wake up on this issue.

What is the legal criteria being used for the lawsuit? Do they even have standing?

 

[rousseau]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

You might have to think a little more about the logistics of not letting your kids access the internet. It's essentially impossible to do unless you have no devices in your home.

We do plan to limit ours quite extremely, but the dam is going to burst eventually. And this is a best case scenario.

It's actually pretty easy. You put a strong password on your computer. You log out when you're done using it.

You keep track of your phone.

Eventually, you're right: kids will get onto the internet.

I would hope by that point I'm time there have been many supervised uses of the internet, discussions about how to stay safe, how to identify addictive but fruitless behaviors, some educational dabblings in addictive but useless behaviors, and so on. I would like to see a whole class put together for 14 or 15 year olds on the internet as much as I would like to see a class for 8-11 year olds that discusses puberty.

It's an important part about our growing world and a lot of that class on the internet needs to be about learning to discern scams and manipulation and propaganda.

It's a tough issue. Right now both of my boys are under four and have no concept of the internet, so limiting them is quite easy. Eldest has messed around a few times in Microsoft Word, but that's about it.

The debate my wife and I are having now is about how and when to introduce them to a computer, and if we go a blunt no on internet access or whitelist a few educational sites. Then there's the problem of what they get exposed to once they start school. We simply can't control what they become aware of, or what they see my wife and I do in our home.

It sounds great in theory to just say no outright, but kids aren't that simple. We do hope to hold the water at bay for as long as possible, but once the dam breaks my thought is to make use of some tools to limit what they can access. And social media accounts will be a hard no for as long as possible.

But you can see how this issue would get quite complicated for those who aren't tech savvy, or particularly well informed about the issue. And when a kid really wants to do something they are relentless.

 

[Toni]

And for parents who are either just too busy with jobs and kids and whatever else life throws at them —and their own Internet issues—that they will happily grab a few minutes of quiet that a screen gives them. I have tons of sympathy.

 

[Jarhyn]

I read about that! It’s beginning to be taken more seriously in my area as well.

I predict ( in the US) a huge culture war as FL/DeSatan is proposing not allowing anyone under 14 or 18 on any social media. Although how that would be enforced is beyond me…

I mean, this is pretty doomed to failure as a regressive action.

We SHOULD have a requirement that social media companies do due diligence to prevent kids on adult platforms, and limiting scope of and access to youth platforms to prevent, locate, and prosecute predators.

We need a "social media education" course, and I can see needing an ID to buy an Internet account, but the fact is that it's like a liquor cabinet, with all of the social ramifications and structures about that also-dubious fountain of self-enjoyment still present.

I just think that the best thing for all this would be a social campaign equating internet access to liquor cabinet access, or cigarette access, or strip club access.

I agree but the genie is out of the bottle. I have no idea how on earth we could enforce no social media before (insert age). It would be great to wake more adults up to the dangers to young kids and to young minds of screen time but.....

Well, an adult awareness campaign about the dangers of letting young kids into social media would help.

It's not even "screen time" so much as "being publicly observable and observed on a platform where information is 'forever'".

I do not disagree. Many thoughtful parents either don’t allow screens or heavily limit and monitor any screen use. But a lot—too many! Parents are too stressed, overworked —and also too glued to their screens. I’m sitting here right now ‘watching’ a movie I’ve seen before ( but not for years) while typing at you and waiting for the rain to let up so I can get the dog out for her walk and keep checking the weather app on my phone and responding to texts re: a seriously ill family member whom I was supposed to be visiting but am not because I have a nasty head cold and that’s the last thing they need: another infection!. Fortunately, no actual children under my supervision.

Mind you: I’m retired.

No: I did NOT allow my kids much access to screens but there were very few screens available when I was raising my kids. We still have exactly one television that I think is enormous but really is extremely modest. And…..elderly.

I DO think the burden lies with the parents and I DO think that educational courses aimed at parents are needed but rather like a finger in the dike.

I DO have a lot of hope for (some) younger parents being more aware and more vigilant re: dangers of screens.

Well, fines, consequences, possibly even some sort of audit for parents whose children have been flagged as accessing the internet?

What do we do when it's discovered that a kid's been getting into their parents' liquor cabinet?

Isn't there a whole Child Protective Services infrastructure?

You might have to think a little more about the logistics of not letting your kids access the internet. It's essentially impossible to do unless you have no devices in your home.

We do plan to limit ours quite extremely, but the dam is going to burst eventually. And this is a best case scenario.

It's actually pretty easy. You put a strong password on your computer. You log out when you're done using it.

You keep track of your phone.

Eventually, you're right: kids will get onto the internet.

I would hope by that point I'm time there have been many supervised uses of the internet, discussions about how to stay safe, how to identify addictive but fruitless behaviors, some educational dabblings in addictive but useless behaviors, and so on. I would like to see a whole class put together for 14 or 15 year olds on the internet as much as I would like to see a class for 8-11 year olds that discusses puberty.

It's an important part about our growing world and a lot of that class on the internet needs to be about learning to discern scams and manipulation and propaganda.

It's a tough issue. Right now both of my boys are under four and have no concept of the internet, so limiting them is quite easy. Eldest has messed around a few times in Microsoft Word, but that's about it.

The debate my wife and I are having now is about how and when to introduce them to a computer, and if we go a blunt no on internet access or whitelist a few educational sites. Then there's the problem of what they get exposed to once they start school. We simply can't control what they become aware of, or what they see my wife and I do in our home.

It sounds great in theory to just say no outright, but kids aren't that simple. We do hope to hold the water at bay for as long as possible, but once the dam breaks my thought is to make use of some tools to limit what they can access. And social media accounts will be a hard no for as long as possible.

But you can see how this issue would get quite complicated for those who aren't tech savvy, or particularly well informed about the issue. And when a kid really wants to do something they are relentless.

You can't control what they ultimately get access to over time, and what they get access to at a friend's house either.

This is how a lot of kids start drinking, smoking, and I assume using the internet.

It can definitely help delay onset.of.a behavior by not taking an opposed view against it, but an informative one that demystifies and otherwise delays the behavior.

I would encourage every elementary school to have a 5th or 6th grade education plan for the internet, and parents to be active around that kind of curricula.

I understand it can be hard as an unsavy user. There should be good adult education classes for parents offered fairly regularly to help be aware of best practices to keep internet access out of hands of kids.

 

[rousseau]

And for parents who are either just too busy with jobs and kids and whatever else life throws at them —and their own Internet issues—that they will happily grab a few minutes of quiet that a screen gives them. I have tons of sympathy.

Yea. I remember how happy and idealistic I was before our first was born. Now most days it's .. dear lord just let me sit down in peace for 15 minutes.

Long ago when people weren't living in homes full of breakable things, and outside of the home didn't risk certain death via motor vehicle, I suspect parenting was less energy intensive. Now it feels like we spend most of our days making sure they don't draw on the couch with marker or break / make a mess of everything like little tornados.

TV? Yes please.

 

[Toni]

And for parents who are either just too busy with jobs and kids and whatever else life throws at them —and their own Internet issues—that they will happily grab a few minutes of quiet that a screen gives them. I have tons of sympathy.

Yea. I remember how happy and idealistic I was before our first was born. Now most days it's .. dear lord just let me sit down in peace for 15 minutes.

Long ago when people weren't living in homes full of breakable things, and outside of the home didn't risk certain death via motor vehicle, I suspect parenting was less energy intensive. Now it feels like we spend most of our days making sure they don't draw on the couch with marker or break / make a mess of everything like little tornados.

TV? Yes please.

Well, kids did all sorts of dangerous things and were exposed to all sorts of dangerous things as well and as a consequence, did not necessarily have the same survival rate as we expect today.

But yeah: I will never forget my oldest, who was a chatterbox X 10, was playing in the room with me and kept asking me questions while I was just trying to read for a few minutes. So I asked him if he could just be quiet for a few minutes so I could finish my chapter. He cheerfully said "Can I just whisper then?" Too cute to be upset with but uninterrupted time was....a very rare luxury.

 

[rousseau]

I came across a discussion in the Ontario Teachers group on Reddit, and apparently a few think that the problem is actually parents. Admin and teachers both know that something needs to be done, but a lot of parents aren't supportive, and admin are afraid to implement a full ban.