Pew - Continuing Decline Of Christianity In America

[Cheerful Charlie]

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

The latest study of American Religion in America.

...
The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade. Meanwhile, the religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular,” now stands at 26%, up from 17% in 2009.
...

The detailed tables (PDF)
https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/10/Detailed-Tables-v1-FOR-WEB.pdf

General population - Atheist 4%, Agnostic 5% Nothing in Particular 17%
Men - 5% Atheist, 6% Agnostic 19% Nothing In Particular
Millennials - 8% Atheist, 9% Agnostic 24% Nothing In Particular
Republicans - 1% Atheist, 2% Agnostic 12% Nothing In Particular
Democrats - 7% Atheist, 7% Agnostic 20% Nothing In Particular

Oddly enough, there is nothing here about Generation Z. By other studies, it seems they are even more likely to have abandoned religion. Older cohorts of course, are more religious. As are cohorts with less education. Numbers of atheists and agnostics seem to be about in line with recent results from Gallup and other surveys.

Such studies seem to be getting harder to do as more people move to cell phones and do not respond to survey requests.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Such studies seem to be getting harder to do as more people move to cell phones and do not respond to survey requests.

They should just have God do the surveys for them. If someone answers him, they're religious. If they just stand there obstinately pretending that they don't hear anybody talking to them, they're an atheist.

 

[Worldtraveller]

It would be hard for xianity to decline anymore (at least in the US).

Oh, you mean their numbers are declining.

Well, that's good news.

 

[Politesse]

That's not a decline, just a reckoning. I never liked the megachurches in the first place, it's okay to be small.

If anything, I would be more alarmed by the decline of other traditions. I don't see religious uniformity as healthy for society; there should be more than two options of "things to be" if we desire to avoid intellectual stagnation.

 

[Sarpedon]

Small is NOT better when it comes to religion. The most abusive cults are small. Megachurch owners trade individual control for lucre and social standing. The cult leaders who want small want it because it allows them to rule their followers absolutely.

 

[Politesse]

Small is NOT better when it comes to religion. The most abusive cults are small. Megachurch owners trade individual control for lucre and social standing. The cult leaders who want small want it because it allows them to rule their followers absolutely.

I didn't say small groups were necessarily better than big ones. I just don't see small as inherently bad. Majority opinion is a dubious measure of virtue or social health.

I also think looking at Jim Jones as proof that "small groups are always evil" makes about as much sense as using spousal abuse as proof that "heterosexual marriage is always evil". Obviously if a small group is being led by a blinking psychopath, things might well go badly, but that has more to do with the psychopath than the size of the group.

 

[Lion IRC]

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/

The latest study of American Religion in America.

...
The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade. Meanwhile, the religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular,” now stands at 26%, up from 17% in 2009.
...

The detailed tables (PDF)
https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/10/Detailed-Tables-v1-FOR-WEB.pdf

General population - Atheist 4%, Agnostic 5% Nothing in Particular 17%
Men - 5% Atheist, 6% Agnostic 19% Nothing In Particular
Millennials - 8% Atheist, 9% Agnostic 24% Nothing In Particular
Republicans - 1% Atheist, 2% Agnostic 12% Nothing In Particular
Democrats - 7% Atheist, 7% Agnostic 20% Nothing In Particular

Oddly enough, there is nothing here about Generation Z. By other studies, it seems they are even more likely to have abandoned religion. Older cohorts of course, are more religious. As are cohorts with less education. Numbers of atheists and agnostics seem to be about in line with recent results from Gallup and other surveys.

Such studies seem to be getting harder to do as more people move to cell phones and do not respond to survey requests.

Atheism is a really easy product to market.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Atheism is a really easy product to market.

Anything is easy to market. Marketing something successfully is the important thing.

Atheism markets itself, no need for salesmen, just people who make good observations, then conclusions. Religion is the opposite.

 

[skepticalbip]

Clear, meaningful, obvious, and straight forward understanding of the world sells itself. It takes ingenious and devious marketing to sell tall tales and empty promises. The most devious marketing technique being instilling fear... (believe this or you will suffer eternal torture and torment)

 

[Rhea]

Atheism is a really easy product to market.

In what way?

And can you include in your answer how that relates to its place in recent human history? I mean, are we saying "easy to market, such that it totally undid the evils of the inquisition in a short time, " or, "easy to market such that it makes rabid religionists who like to punish atheists reliably re-think their choices when shown atheism's marketing?"

 

[southernhybrid]

I would like to know the regional differences. For those of us who live in the Bible Belt, it doesn't appear as if Christianity is on the decline. My small city has at least 50 or 60 curches, representing almost every denomination from Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, JW, and nondenominational, which are usually the most fundy. We have one small RC church, and many other sects that I haven't mentioned. Most churches are racially segregated, other than one that I know which advertises racial harmony. That one is probably due to the high number of mixed marriages and relationships that we have in my town. The huge Methodist church on the corner of my street has three morning services. We also have a few mega churches on the outskirts of town. And, we have on tiny. Hispanic church, and so many store front churches, that I couldn't count them all. Just yesterday I saw a new one pop up. We lack a UU fellowship. I'd check it out if we had one, since I've known many UU atheists and UUs are more about charity and social justice than beliefs. Having said all that, I know many believers who don't attend church regularly, so apparently church communities don't meet the social needs of all Christians.

So, is Christianity on he decline in certain regions, but not so much in other regions? I will say this. I have known many Christians who I would describe as cultural Christians. Those are the best kind, imo. They are tolerant and they don't judge me for being an atheist. I've also met two atheist Christians. They belong to churches for community. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many atheists or agnostics sitting in church pews on Sundays.

And, yes. We do have more atheists here than one might think. I've met many of them, but we are still a very small minority in a sea of Christianity.

 

[Politesse]

I would like to know the regional differences. For those of us who live in the Bible Belt, it doesn't appear as if Christianity is on the decline. My small city has at least 50 or 60 curches, representing almost every denomination from Baptist, Methodist, Mormon, JW, and nondenominational, which are usually the most fundy. We have one small RC church, and many other sects that I haven't mentioned. Most churches are racially segregated, other than one that I know which advertises racial harmony. That one is probably due to the high number of mixed marriages and relationships that we have in my town. The huge Methodist church on the corner of my street has three morning services. We also have a few mega churches on the outskirts of town. And, we have on tiny. Hispanic church, and so many store front churches, that I couldn't count them all. Just yesterday I saw a new one pop up. We lack a UU fellowship. I'd check it out if we had one, since I've known many UU atheists and UUs are more about charity and social justice than beliefs. Having said all that, I know many believers who don't attend church regularly, so apparently church communities don't meet the social needs of all Christians.

So, is Christianity on he decline in certain regions, but not so much in other regions? I will say this. I have known many Christians who I would describe as cultural Christians. Those are the best kind, imo. They are tolerant and they don't judge me for being an atheist. I've also met two atheist Christians. They belong to churches for community. I wouldn't be surprised if there are many atheists or agnostics sitting in church pews on Sundays.

And, yes. We do have more atheists here than one might think. I've met many of them, but we are still a very small minority in a sea of Christianity.

Absolutely, Sohy, we see some vast differences by state and region. State by state for instance, we range from Utah with nearly 792 in a 1000 people regularly participating in a religious tradition, to 276 in a 1000 in Maine. http://www.thearda.com/mapsReports/maps/Ardamap.asp?map1=3&alpha=.

There are also considerable differences within those states. So if we look at individual counties in Georgia, for instance, even more extreme variations in religious participation appear. And not always in the way people would assume; cities aren't necessarily less religious than rural areas, rather there are steep variations between different urban areas. So Fulton County (Atlanta) is on the high side of religious participation, where Richmond County (Augusta) is almost exactly middle-of-the-road. Some of the most isolated counties are also some of the least religious, despite the considerable role churches themselves often play in the society of said areas.

 

[southernhybrid]

Thank. you for that chart, Politesse. My county ranks in the highest range for religious participation. I'll have to take a look at some of the other counties near by. But, I know lots of Christians who never or rarely attend church. The good thing is that most of the larger churches here do a huge amount of charity work here in town. The one on my corner has many social activities open to the public. I call that church, "the party church".

We once had a very liberal Baptist pastor here, when the board was IIDB. His church was in Midtown Atlanta, and more than half of his congregation consisted of gay men. Midtown is saturated with gay men. In fact, they have their own liaison with the police department. People often don't realize that fact about Atlanta.

I have no problem with Christianity as long as its the more liberal, respectful versions. If all religion were to become more liberal and more involved with doing charity and less time criticizing those with different beliefs, that would be a positive thing. I understand the attraction to mythology. It's when the mythology is taken too literally, I see a problem. As you know, some of the atheists here strongly disagree with that. To each their own.

 

[southernhybrid]

Looking at the Georgia map again. Fulton and Dekalb county are urban with a very high percentage of black folks. Most black folks in Georgia are Christians who attend church, so that is probably why they have such high numbers of people who participate in churches.

We met up with the Black nonbelievers of Atlanta last week at the Atlanta Freethought Society. The leader of the group spoke about the difficulty of being a black or person of color who is an atheist. This is especially true for black females. We only had one black male member when we used to have a Humanist group in Atlanta. I don't think the AFS had any minority members, although these days, my husband, who is the grandchild of two Arabic immigrants is now considered a "person of color". His mother would be rolling over in her grave if she knew that. She considered her family white and held some of her own racist ideas. I wish we could all consider ourselves members of the human race.

 

[Politesse]

Thank. you for that chart, Politesse. My county ranks in the highest range for religious participation. I'll have to take a look at some of the other counties near by. But, I know lots of Christians who never or rarely attend church. The good thing is that most of the larger churches here do a huge amount of charity work here in town. The one on my corner has many social activities open to the public. I call that church, "the party church".

We once had a very liberal Baptist pastor here, when the board was IIDB. His church was in Midtown Atlanta, and more than half of his congregation consisted of gay men. Midtown is saturated with gay men. In fact, they have their own liaison with the police department. People often don't realize that fact about Atlanta.

Actually, Atlanta has that reputation, at least in LGBTQ circles, of being one of the safer places to be in that part of the country.

I used to attend a similar congregation when I lived in the much more conservative town of Modesto CA; here in the Bay Area, most churches are vaguely liberal so the need for an explicitly gay-friendly church is not as necessary. Though, the rector of our local Anglican outpost is gay himself so I suppose there's that. The old ladies who make up the bulk of the congregation have been, if anything, slightly overdoing the welcome-mat-laying for Adam and I but I am not really complaining! It's good how things have changed. I never would have imagined, even when I was a kid, that the situation would change so much so quickly even within the auspices of the so-named liberal church. Gay rights were very controversial when I was young (and closeted) in the relatively liberal ELCA Lutheran Branch; gay marriage in particular was not embraced fully until after my seminary years, and I know things were similar for the Episcopalians. I knew Jeff, the rector in question, when we were both in pastor school, and I don't recall either of us being especially loud about our private lives despite the ostensible policy of tolerance in place at that time.

Personally, I think the "culture wars" aspect of American Christian political identity has been a major drive of the demographic shift away from religious participation. Even a young person who on some level has religious or spiritual beliefs is going to lose more than they gain in the esteem of their peers, should they become known as participating in Christianity. Even in Modesto (where I still work, and many of my students live) the church population is aging rapidly and not being replaced by a younger generation. Crucially, you see few young families dragging their kids to church, especially younger white families (the Hispanic population is more generally religious).

Especially in the era of Trump. Conservative Christians were always faithless hypocrites to the supposed central values of our shared textual tradition (love?), but it has never been so plainly obvious as now. Trump isn't just an insult to liberal social values, he's pretty dismissive of conservative values like fidelity to family and temperance of profanity, greed, and drink, as well. So the phenomenon of the Evangelical wing siding openly with him is not painting a very cheery portrait of the church to the "woke" generation that is now reaching adulthood and deciding how to raise their young.

 

[Lion IRC]

Atheism is a really easy product to market.

Anything is easy to market.

COMPULSORY EUTHANASIA FOR 80 YEAR OLDS?
MAKING WHALE MEAT A FAMILY FAVOURITE?
GUN CONTROL IN AMERICA ?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=I9aYT-GrG0s

Marketing something successfully is the important thing.

Atheism markets itself, no need for salesmen...

Is there an echo in here?

Atheism is a really easy product to market.

 

[lpetrich]

Who’s in Decline, Christianity or Atheism? | Adam Lee
noting
In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace | Pew Research Center

From 2009 to 2018-9,

• Christian: 77% - 65%
• Unaffiliated: 16% - 26%
• Protestant: 51% - 43%
• Catholic: 23% - 20%
• None: 12% - 17%
• Agnostic: 3% - 5%
• Atheist: 2% - 4%
• Church - monthly or more: 52% - 45%
• Church - a few times a year or less: 47% - 54%

Xian decline and unaffiliated decrease or increase over that time (%):

• Men: -12, +10
• Women: -11, +10
• Silent Gen. (1928-45): -2, +1
• Baby Boomers (1946-64): -6, +4
• Generation X (1965-80): -8, +6
• Millennials (1981-96): -16, +13
• White, non-Hispanic: -12, +10
• Black, non-Hispanic: -11, +7
• Hispanic: -10, +8
• Less than college: -11, +8
• College graduate: -13, +12
• Northeast: -15, +12
• Midwest: -10, +7
• South: -12, +10
• West: -9, +11
• Republican / lean Rep: -7, +6
• Democratic / lean Dem: -17, +14

 

[Politesse]

Giddy, huh?

Naive.

Enjoy being in the majority, seeing what happens when your ideology is the most valuable entity for the wealthy and powerful to pervert.

 

[Rhea]

Giddy, huh?

Naive.

Enjoy being in the majority, seeing what happens when your ideology is the most valuable entity for the wealthy and powerful to pervert.

Is atheism an ideology?

 

[Politesse]

Giddy, huh?

Naive.

Enjoy being in the majority, seeing what happens when your ideology is the most valuable entity for the wealthy and powerful to pervert.

Is atheism an ideology?

Not really, no. If the history of already existing authoritarian atheist states is any guide, they're going have to hunt for something proximate. ("Theism" is not an ideology either.)

If you're thinking, but wait, Maoism doesn't represent my ideas as I now understand them... welcome to the club. What empires do to philosophical schools is an ugly, hypocritical, self-contradicting, and usually bloody affair.