Pogroms and blaming the Jews

[Loren Pechtel]

Amsterdam police arrest more than 60 people after attacks on Israeli football fans

Plane carrying fans home lands in Israel as Amsterdam mayor condemns ‘hit and run’ attacks on visiting supporters

www.theguardian.com

Blaming the Jews for it:

Amsterdam’s police chief, Peter Holla, said there had been “incidents on both sides”, starting on Wednesday night when Maccabi fans tore down a Palestinian flag from the facade of a building in the city centre and shouted “fuck you Palestine”.

Starting???

Israel Warned Dutch Police about the Amsterdam Pogrom but Was Ignored

Aמ Israeli who complained to the police about being attacked was assaulted brutally with nightsticks by the cops and is now unable to walk.

www.jewishpress.com

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start. The police apparently ignored the warnings.

 

[steve_bank]

In the Israeli narrative any criticism of Israel is from antisemitism with no basis for a prejudice.\

The reactions to Israel are based on what Israel has been and is doing to the Palestinian people, stang with foundngof Israel and azure of Arab land,

A few Israelis in Amsterdam are assaulted and apologies are made and it is global news.

When over decades Palestinians in occupied West Bank are pushed off their land and reproducer by Israelis hardly a peep over here.

Historical bias and the Jewish experience in WWII are irrelevant to the issue. It is about what the collective state of Israel is doing.

If anything it is the Palestinians who have been reduced to a stereotype. Te result of a long proganda campi9gn over here to paint Palestinians as terrorist without justification and Israel as an innocent victim. Hetanyahu playedto American conserve Christians. He is the protector of the Holy Land.

From the founding Arabs who were in Israel when the borders were declared were subjected to a form of Jim Crow racism, admitted by Israel in the late 90s. Less than equal treatment, unequal access to services.

The oppressed becomes the oppressor.

Forget Israel is Jewish and look at the history.


As to European soccer violence., other tan it being Jews it does not seem out of the ordinary....

 

[laughing dog]

Amsterdam police arrest more than 60 people after attacks on Israeli football fans

Plane carrying fans home lands in Israel as Amsterdam mayor condemns ‘hit and run’ attacks on visiting supporters

www.theguardian.com

Blaming the Jews for it:

Amsterdam’s police chief, Peter Holla, said there had been “incidents on both sides”, starting on Wednesday night when Maccabi fans tore down a Palestinian flag from the facade of a building in the city centre and shouted “fuck you Palestine”.

Starting???

Israel Warned Dutch Police about the Amsterdam Pogrom but Was Ignored

Aמ Israeli who complained to the police about being attacked was assaulted brutally with nightsticks by the cops and is now unable to walk.

www.jewishpress.com

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start. The police apparently ignored the warnings.

In Europe, it is not unusual for the supporters of the visiting teams to be abused or attacked, especially if they draw attention to themselves as supporters of the visiting team. It is hard for US citizens to understand the violence that soccer can evoke. I’ve heard many stories from Europeans about their r experience ad traveling soccer supporters. Franklin Foer’s How Soccer Explains The World has numerous chilling stories about soccer hooliganism.

I am not surprised that there are some “low land Nazis” ( my Jewish Polish grandfather’s term) nor that there are Dutch soccer hooligans, I am sure the two groups are not mutually exclusive. Nor am I surprised that some Maccabi supporters are racist assholes. That doesn’t condone attacks on them. That should never happen to anyone, but violence that should never happen to civilians minding their business does happen way too frequently in all settings all over the globe.

I wonder if the IDF actually knew about the attacks (as opposed to being unsurprised by them) if they warned Maccabi supporters to avoid flaunting their identity before and after the match as a preventative measure. It is something many travelling supporters in Europe are advised. I wonder if the Amsterdam police provided safe corridors to and from the event.

But to compare this outrage to a pogrom is over-the-top hyperbole. It is no more a pogrom than the Gaza war is genocide.

 

[bilby]

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start.

...or there is a long history of violence involving football hooligans, many of whom travel to away matches for the sole purpose of fighting with fans of other teams.

There has always been a subset of the population who actively seek out violence, who enjoy fighting. They will pick fights over nothing, particularly if intoxicated, or inspired by other conflicts (past or present) that they identify with*; And some of these people prefer to fight in gangs or "teams". Football, particularly in Europe, has replaced military service as the preferred home for such people, as militaries have become more disciplined and professional.

There hasn't been an international football match in my lifetime that hasn't attracted such people; The Authorities have had varying success in preventing their violence, but any authority that failed to anticipate it would be derelict in their duty to the public.

Israel didn't need a time machine to know that violence was very likely to occur.







* English football hooligans travelling to Germany use the slogan "1918, 1945, and 1966", the latter being the year England beat Germany in the World Cup Final. The Germans are mostly bemused by this, as they don't consider 1966 to be particularly important; Nor do they share the English sentiment about the Germany-England rivalry as culturally paramount. English hooligans have Germany as their "big bad", but German hooligans are more interested in rivalry with the Netherlands. None of it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Bomb#20]

In the Israeli narrative any criticism of Israel is from antisemitism with no basis for a prejudice.\

And? Do you think there is basis for a prejudice? Lack of basis is kind of what makes a prejudice a prejudice. And in case you're implying prejudice against Israelis doesn't count as bigotry the way prejudice against Jews does, that isn't really how it works.

The reactions to Israel are based on what Israel has been and is doing to the Palestinian people, stang with foundngof Israel and azure of Arab land,

A few Israelis in Amsterdam are assaulted and apologies are made and it is global news.

When over decades Palestinians in occupied West Bank are pushed off their land and reproducer by Israelis hardly a peep over here.

Historical bias and the Jewish experience in WWII are irrelevant to the issue. It is about what the collective state of Israel is doing.

You mean Israelis are collectively guilty for what the collective state of Israel is doing? Does that work both ways? Are Gazans also collectively guilty for what the collective society of Gaza is doing?

If anything it is the Palestinians who have been reduced to a stereotype. Te result of a long proganda campi9gn over here to paint Palestinians as terrorist without justification and Israel as an innocent victim.

... says the guy reducing Israelis to a stereotype and joining in the long propaganda campaign to paint Israelis as land thieves.

 

[ZiprHead]

And? Do you think there is basis for a prejudice? Lack of basis is kind of what makes a prejudice a prejudice. And in case you're implying prejudice against Israelis doesn't count as bigotry the way prejudice against Jews does, that isn't really how it works.

I have never understood the bigotry against Jews. Most of the time I don't think I could tell a person is Jewish. The surname helps but doesn't make it any more understandable to me.

I can understand it against black people due to the skin color difference but I still can't reason it.

 

[Bomb#20]

And? Do you think there is basis for a prejudice? Lack of basis is kind of what makes a prejudice a prejudice. And in case you're implying prejudice against Israelis doesn't count as bigotry the way prejudice against Jews does, that isn't really how it works.

I have never understood the bigotry against Jews. Most of the time I don't think I could tell a person is Jewish. The surname helps but doesn't make it any more understandable to me.

I can understand it against black people due to the skin color difference but I still can't reason it.

Tribalism will use visual cues opportunistically if they're available, but it doesn't need them. I think bigots being able to tell by looking is more the exception than the rule. Who can tell a Protestant from a Catholic or a straight from a gay by looking? Heck, time was when Jews themselves were the grandmasters at bigotry against Jews, and they couldn't tell by looking...

And the Gileadites took the passages of Jordan before the Ephraimites: and it was so, that when those Ephraimites which were escaped said, Let me go over; that the men of Gilead said unto him, Art thou an Ephraimite? If he said, Nay; Then said they unto him, Say now Shibboleth: and he said Sibboleth: for he could not frame to pronounce it right. Then they took him, and slew him at the passages of Jordan: and there fell at that time of the Ephraimites forty and two thousand.

- Judges 12:5–6​

 

[Swammerdami]

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start. The police apparently ignored the warnings.

Turning a usual anti-Palestinian argument on its head, is it not probable that Netanyahu is delighted when a few Israelis are victimized in Europe? Zionists and their sympathizers have a strong motive to advertise (or even foment?) violence against Israelis or Jews.

 

[Tigers!]

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start. The police apparently ignored the warnings.

Turning a usual anti-Palestinian argument on its head, is it not probable that Netanyahu is delighted when a few Israelis are victimized in Europe? Zionists and their sympathizers have a strong motive to advertise (or even foment?) violence against Israelis or Jews.

We know that Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. would never, ever advertise or forment violence against Israelis and Jews.

 

[laughing dog]

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start. The police apparently ignored the warnings.

Turning a usual anti-Palestinian argument on its head, is it not probable that Netanyahu is delighted when a few Israelis are victimized in Europe? Zionists and their sympathizers have a strong motive to advertise (or even foment?) violence against Israelis or Jews.

We know that Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. would never, ever advertise or forment violence against Israelis and Jews.

That’s why Netanahyu helped Hamas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I wonder if the IDF actually knew about the attacks (as opposed to being unsurprised by them) if they warned Maccabi supporters to avoid flaunting their identity before and after the match as a preventative measure. It is something many travelling supporters in Europe are advised. I wonder if the Amsterdam police provided safe corridors to and from the event.

But to compare this outrage to a pogrom is over-the-top hyperbole. It is no more a pogrom than the Gaza war is genocide.

Pay more attention. Israel warned the Amsterdam police. About the attacks in general and threats to a specific person.

That's not just a general caution about what sometimes happens after a football match.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And? Do you think there is basis for a prejudice? Lack of basis is kind of what makes a prejudice a prejudice. And in case you're implying prejudice against Israelis doesn't count as bigotry the way prejudice against Jews does, that isn't really how it works.

I have never understood the bigotry against Jews. Most of the time I don't think I could tell a person is Jewish. The surname helps but doesn't make it any more understandable to me.

I can understand it against black people due to the skin color difference but I still can't reason it.

The Catholic church prohibited "usury". The result was if you wanted to borrow money you had to go to a Jew. People have never been happy with repaying the bankers.

 

[laughing dog]

I wonder if the IDF actually knew about the attacks (as opposed to being unsurprised by them) if they warned Maccabi supporters to avoid flaunting their identity before and after the match as a preventative measure. It is something many travelling supporters in Europe are advised. I wonder if the Amsterdam police provided safe corridors to and from the event.

But to compare this outrage to a pogrom is over-the-top hyperbole. It is no more a pogrom than the Gaza war is genocide.

Pay more attention. Israel warned the Amsterdam police. About the attacks in general and threats to a specific person.

That's not just a general caution about what sometimes happens after a football match.

Your response did not address anything in my post.

There is no report of the specific fan injured.

 

[Swammerdami]

The Catholic church prohibited "usury". The result was if you wanted to borrow money you had to go to a Jew. People have never been happy with repaying the bankers.

From the historical trivia desk:
The wealthiest man in 12th century England was Aaron the Jew, aka Aaron of Lincoln. Upon his death in 1186 his assets, including debts owed to him, were confiscated by Henry II, the King.

He made a speciality of money lending for the purpose of building abbeys and monasteries ... at Aaron's death [12 abbeys] remained indebted to him in no less a sum than 6,400 marks. [1 mark = 13 shillings and 4 pence] ... the abbot of Meaux took over from Aaron lands pledged to the latter in the sum of 1,800 marks; Aaron at the same time promising to commute the debt for a new one of only 1,260 marks, which was paid off by the abbey. After Aaron's death the original deed for 1,800 marks was brought to light, and the king's treasury demanded from the abbey the missing 540 marks. ... his death brought the abbeys into the king's power.

...Upon his death Henry II seized his property as the escheat of a Jewish usurer, and the English crown thus became universal heir to his estate. The actual cash treasure accumulated by Aaron was sent over to France to assist Henry in his war with Philip Augustus, but the vessel containing it went down on the voyage between Shoreham and Dieppe. However, the indebtedness of the smaller barons and knights remained, and fell into the hands of the king to the amount of £15,000, owed by some 430 persons distributed over the English counties.
... on the death of Aaron, the payment of interest ceased automatically, since the king, as a Christian, could not accept usury.

 

[Jarhyn]

Israel knew there would be attacks well before the supposed "start". Either they have a time machine or the supposed start isn't the start.

...or there is a long history of violence involving football hooligans, many of whom travel to away matches for the sole purpose of fighting with fans of other teams.

There has always been a subset of the population who actively seek out violence, who enjoy fighting. They will pick fights over nothing, particularly if intoxicated, or inspired by other conflicts (past or present) that they identify with*; And some of these people prefer to fight in gangs or "teams". Football, particularly in Europe, has replaced military service as the preferred home for such people, as militaries have become more disciplined and professional.

There hasn't been an international football match in my lifetime that hasn't attracted such people; The Authorities have had varying success in preventing their violence, but any authority that failed to anticipate it would be derelict in their duty to the public.

Israel didn't need a time machine to know that violence was very likely to occur.







* English football hooligans travelling to Germany use the slogan "1918, 1945, and 1966", the latter being the year England beat Germany in the World Cup Final. The Germans are mostly bemused by this, as they don't consider 1966 to be particularly important; Nor do they share the English sentiment about the Germany-England rivalry as culturally paramount. English hooligans have Germany as their "big bad", but German hooligans are more interested in rivalry with the Netherlands. None of it makes a lot of sense.

So, I've been in the Netherlands for a minute, and was in Amsterdam yesterday.

A cop at Centraal (and there were a lot of them) actually bothered me about my stick, because they were in paranoia mode, though his partner thought he was being silly; my stick is clearly a weapon only in the same way as the Pope's staff!

That said, this prompted my husband to look up the incident and found video of the Israelis doing exactly as you describe over curiosity about the incident, as we have been staying in Haaften, a rural village a fair bit south of Utrecht and didn't know how serious the riots were, and this confirmed my (and your) suspicion after "soccer fans" were implicated: the Israeli folks were blasting Palestine, glorifying the abuses, and shoving folks into canals.

The Israeli that got shoved into the canal (at least in the videos) was in response to their doing that. Then after the shitheel apologized, the dutch folks who threw the asshole in the drink themselves actually pulled the jackass back out of the canal, too.

And the canals in Amsterdam are fucking disgusting btw.

This whole incident seems to be yet another incident of Israeli Zionists crybullying in the vein of "you can't call us out, if you do that's antisemitism".

The real headline is "genocide supporting Zionist soccer hooligans spark riot in Amsterdam".

 

[Derec]

A cop at Centraal (and there were a lot of them) actually bothered me about my stick, because they were in paranoia mode, though his partner thought he was being silly; my stick is clearly a weapon only in the same way as the Pope's staff!

The real headline is "genocide supporting Zionist soccer hooligans spark riot in Amsterdam".

You will always blame Jews for everything.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I wonder if the IDF actually knew about the attacks (as opposed to being unsurprised by them) if they warned Maccabi supporters to avoid flaunting their identity before and after the match as a preventative measure. It is something many travelling supporters in Europe are advised. I wonder if the Amsterdam police provided safe corridors to and from the event.

But to compare this outrage to a pogrom is over-the-top hyperbole. It is no more a pogrom than the Gaza war is genocide.

Pay more attention. Israel warned the Amsterdam police. About the attacks in general and threats to a specific person.

That's not just a general caution about what sometimes happens after a football match.

I imagine this is expressed among Police staff before most Champions League games. The article I saw indicated that people were prowling around looking for fans of the football club, not simply people who were Jewish.

The attacks are abhorrent. Hooliganism is a very ugly thing, has nothing to do with the sport and is just a bunch of thugs looking to be thugs.

 

[Jarhyn]

A cop at Centraal (and there were a lot of them) actually bothered me about my stick, because they were in paranoia mode, though his partner thought he was being silly; my stick is clearly a weapon only in the same way as the Pope's staff!

The real headline is "genocide supporting Zionist soccer hooligans spark riot in Amsterdam".

You will always blame Jews for everything.

It's good that you finally recognize that I have a thing or two in common with some rather fine wizards, albeit fictional.

Granted, I don't have strange powers, and my stick is not something worth swinging around. It is soft wood, not suited to such violent use.


I will blame people who throw folks in canals for ending up getting thrown in canals in turn. The reality is that Israeli zionist soccer hooligans were causing trouble and the crybullying about it.

 

[Swammerdami]

A cop at Centraal (and there were a lot of them) actually bothered me about my stick, because they were in paranoia mode, though his partner thought he was being silly; my stick is clearly a weapon only in the same way as the Pope's staff!

You are a wizard, right? In The Lord of the Rings the wizard Gandalf the White was permitted to carry his staff into the presence of the ruler (because it appeared to be just an old man's walking stick). Gandalf then used the magic stick to take control.