Portrait of a 47% moocher

[coloradoatheist]

I grew up middle class. My mother never 'worked' till we kids were pretty much grown, and then it was not out of necessity.

People don't remember how it used to be.
In the post war years jobs were fairly plentiful, and most people with a high school education could buy a house, raise a family, take an annual vacation and put the kids through school on a single, 40h/week job.
Today you generally need college and two incomes, or >40h/week to pull this off, and you can't even get into college without taking out a loan.

I wonder how the 'number of jobs' to 'number of adults' ratio compares then and now.

Here is a old article on it. In 1950 women made up of less than 30% of the workforce for where it's now about half.http://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2002/05/art2full.pdf

 

[ksen]

Oh, so then half the workers don't have to leave the workforce.

 

[Derec]

Where does it say that Greene has no federal income tax liability? Because that's what would put him in the infamous "47%" category.
It seems to me that he and his wife would comfortably make enough to have to pay taxes, even with all the provisions for children.

 

[ksen]

Green's story does illustrate that the line "if you work hard you'll be financially rewarded" is a myth.

 

[RVonse]

So we need to tell women that they should get back in the kitchen and enjoy raising their kids?

Yep.

Or at least until it becomes a proper time to de-populate the earth from having too many people on it.

 

[dismal]

Green's story does illustrate that the line "if you work hard you'll be financially rewarded" is a myth.

It illustrates the "if you work hard collecting trash you'll be financially rewarded at $12 bucks an hour" reality.

I don't recall ever having been told the path to great prosperity was dropping out of high school and collecting trash.

 

[ksen]

Why do you sneer at trash collecting?

eta: who dropped out of high school in this story?

 

[Valjean]

I grew up middle class. My mother never 'worked' till we kids were pretty much grown, and then it was not out of necessity.

People don't remember how it used to be.
In the post war years jobs were fairly plentiful, and most people with a high school education could buy a house, raise a family, take an annual vacation and put the kids through school on a single, 40h/week job.
Today you generally need college and two incomes, or >40h/week to pull this off, and you can't even get into college without taking out a loan.

So at this time everything was just peaches and cream? Everybody was happy and didn't want change? The women were happy to be house bound and be relegated to the jobs of the time?

Don't be silly. There were all sorts of problems and inequities, but job availability and a living wage weren't among them.

I wonder how the 'number of jobs' to 'number of adults' ratio compares then and now.

I'm reminded of that early '60s TV show "Route 66," (now in late night reruns), where two guys traveled the country on an endless road trip, always finding interesting new jobs at each stop and having adventures. Apparently the concept seemed plausible, at the time.

 

[dismal]

Why do you sneer at trash collecting?

eta: who dropped out of high school in this story?

I don't sneer at it, I just point out there is no myth that if you work hard collecting trash you will have great prosperity.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Yep. Until the media convinced mom raising children and making a home was somehow demeaning. Raising children successfully is one of the most important jobs there is.




I remember how it used to be. Mom started working when the kids were old enough and the eldest kid was responsible enough. Family vacations. Dad always had the weekend off. Picnics. Going out to eat was a special occasion not a necessity. No need for overtime. Everytthing worked until it didn't.

So we need to tell women that they should get back in the kitchen and enjoy raising their kids?

Nope. I'll do it. I'd bet many other men would too. The shit I'd deal with raising children is nothing compared to the shit many people deal with from their employer.

 

[ksen]

Why do you sneer at trash collecting?

eta: who dropped out of high school in this story?

I don't sneer at it, I just point out there is no myth that if you work hard collecting trash you will have great prosperity.

Ah, I misinterpreted your italics.

So the "just work harder" trope is actually the "just work harder in certain industries" trope?

Which industries?

 

[dismal]

I don't sneer at it, I just point out there is no myth that if you work hard collecting trash you will have great prosperity.

Ah, I misinterpreted your italics.

So the "just work harder" trope is actually the "just work harder in certain industries" trope?

Which industries?

I would say part of the working hard needs to be aimed at getting skills that are in demand in the market.

I'm sure you can google "high paying careers" as well as I can.

 

[Ford]

I grew up middle class. My mother never 'worked' till we kids were pretty much grown, and then it was not out of necessity.

People don't remember how it used to be.
In the post war years jobs were fairly plentiful, and most people with a high school education could buy a house, raise a family, take an annual vacation and put the kids through school on a single, 40h/week job.
Today you generally need college and two incomes, or >40h/week to pull this off, and you can't even get into college without taking out a loan.

So at this time everything was just peaches and cream? Everybody was happy and didn't want change? The women were happy to be house bound and be relegated to the jobs of the time?

You seem to be deliberately missing the point here.

A middle class family used to be able to get by just fine on one income. I know...I grew up in just such a family. My father never went to college, but wound up in a management position that allowed us to afford a nice house on the water with a boat. Mom went to college but didn't need to work, so she stayed home until us kids were old enough, and then (after a few classes to get back up to speed) went back to work in health care. All three kids went to college, and nobody graduated with student loan debt.


Fast forward until today, and it would be difficult to replicate that sort of life with one income no matter which spouse was working.


Nowadays a middle class family does not have the luxury of discussing which spouse will be the breadwinner of the family, because wages have stagnated to the point where two incomes are necessary in most cases.

And if you're not middle class? Good luck! I know a family that is just barely making ends meet on three incomes. He works a full time job during the day, works part time a few nights a week, his wife works, and he's been picking up extra shifts at his second job so they'll have a little extra money for the holidays.


What's next? A family of four will have to have four jobs to get by?

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Back in the 1950's and 60's most married women did not work.

Families were supported by one worker working 40 hours a week.

Practically no businesses were open on Sundays.

This is when the rich paid much more taxes. They paid more income taxes and they paid more capital gains taxes.

Ronald Reagan comes in and starts to massively reduce the taxes on the rich.

It has been down hill for most ever since.

Correlation, causation, it's all the same.

 

[NobleSavage]

Back in the 1950's and 60's most married women did not work.

Families were supported by one worker working 40 hours a week.

Practically no businesses were open on Sundays.

This is when the rich paid much more taxes. They paid more income taxes and they paid more capital gains taxes.

Ronald Reagan comes in and starts to massively reduce the taxes on the rich.

It has been down hill for most ever since.

Bullshit. The wife worked her ass off at home. Now she is just working some place else.

 

[Derec]

Industrialization has created a great devaluation of domestic work. .

A big reason was that industrialization made domestic work objectively less valuable.
It simply takes time and effort to use a washer and drier than it does to wash clothes by hand and hang them on a clothesline. An electric or gas stove simply needs turning on rather than having to mess with wood. Picking up chicken, vegetables etc. at a supermarket is much easier than killing, plucking and cleaning a chicken and picking up the vegetables after having tended to them for weeks. Indoor plumbing is also a tremendous time saver.
Since homemaking is no longer a full time job, why shouldn't women work outside the home?

 

[ZiprHead]

This whole derail about women in the workplace is bullshit.

 

[Ford]

This whole derail about women in the workplace is bullshit.

Sure, but what is the purpose of the bullshit?


Anyone remember the Equal Rights Amendment?


Back about the time the "Moral Majority" was on the rise and the Republican Party fell in love with the Christian Right and Trickle-down economics, there was a movement on the other side of the political fence to grant our women-folk equal rights under the Constitution. Integrating women into the work force. Giving them equal pay and equal opportunity.


The Amendment ultimately failed, but on some level I can't help but think that some right wingers imagine the two-income household as a bit of payback for women demanding equal rights.

 

[Underseer]

Back in the 1950's and 60's most married women did not work.

Families were supported by one worker working 40 hours a week.

Practically no businesses were open on Sundays.

This is when the rich paid much more taxes. They paid more income taxes and they paid more capital gains taxes.

Ronald Reagan comes in and starts to massively reduce the taxes on the rich.

It has been down hill for most ever since.

If you hate capitalism so much, why don't you move to North Korea with all the other communists?

Why do you hate our freedom? [/conservolibertarian]

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Back in the 1950's and 60's most married women did not work.

Families were supported by one worker working 40 hours a week.

Practically no businesses were open on Sundays.

This is when the rich paid much more taxes. They paid more income taxes and they paid more capital gains taxes.

Ronald Reagan comes in and starts to massively reduce the taxes on the rich.

It has been down hill for most ever since.

Reality:

The really poor were off the radar then. They were either black or outside the US.