President Biden's Infrastructure Plans

[Derec]

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Ironically I was supposed to visit Minnesota tomorrow to visit movement leaders fighting the #Line3 pipeline & urging the Biden admin to stop building fossil fuel infrastructure - which is leading to the same catastrophic climate events harming our country and city right now." / Twitter
Too much of a disaster at home, however.

This is just stupid opposition to actual infrastructure based on nothing but ideology. Even under best case scenarios, we will need fossil fuels for several decades yet. And therefore we will continue to need fossil fuel infrastructure and we need to maintain it.

Dr. Lucky Tran on Twitter: "I never want to hear anyone say that a Green New Deal is too expensive ever again (vid link)" / Twitter
Showing some video of some water pouring into a subway-train station over a train.

Most of the AOC's GND price tag is due to parts that have nothing to do with climate or the environment. Instead, just like infrastructure, it is used as a vehicle to pass a smörgåsbord of leftist spending priorities.

 

[Derec]

Manchin Wants to Invest More Taxpayer Money in Propping Up Fossil Fuel Industry

Truthout is very far left and this headline and article are highly misleading.

Instead of phasing out fossil fuels and investing heavily in cleaner energy sources such as wind and solar, Manchin and his allies in the Senate are pushing a plan to invest billions of federal tax dollars into nuclear energy and controversial technologies such as “carbon capture” that would allow industrial polluters to continue extracting and burning fossil fuels for years to come.

First of all, nuclear energy is not a fossil fuel. In fact, it is very low carbon, lower than solar or wind.


Second, no matter what we do, we will need to continue to use and extract fossil fuels for decades to come, not just years. Solar and wind puritanism is not doing the climate any favors as it is highly unrealistic.

I'm of mixed minds about carbon capture. It is good for making synfuels and chemical feedstocks, but not when it enabled continued fossil-fuel consumption.

What does carbon capture have to do specifically with synfuels? Do you have a link?

 

[lpetrich]

• Extract CO2 from our air, use it to create synthetic fuels - Energy Post
• CO2 from direct air capture as carbon feedstock for Fischer-Tropsch chemicals and fuels: Energy and economic analysis - ScienceDirect
• FIRST COMMERCIAL PLANT FOR THE PRODUCTION OF BLUE CRUDE PLANNED IN NORWAY - Sunfire
• Nordic Electrofuel – Clean at scale
•  Fischer–Tropsch process

It's a two-step process.

Electrolyze water:
2H2O -> 2H2 + O2
Combine it with CO2 extracted from the air:
x*CO2 + (2x+y)*H2 -> C(x)H(2y) + (2x)*H2O

One can also make oxyhydrocarbons like methanol:
x*CO2 + (2x+y-z)*H2 -> C(x)H(2y)O(z) + (2x-z)*H2O


More on the aftermath of Hurricane Ida in NYC:
Jimmy Van Bramer on Instagram: “This afternoon I joined our Congresswoman @aoc and colleagues @sengianaris, @juliewon2021 & @sunnysideshines to check in on residents and small business owners impacted by Ida. The losses are staggering & the pain very real. We must be do all we can for them all.”

 

[lpetrich]

Ilhan Omar on Instagram: “We are here because nearly all of Minnesota is in a state of drought.
We are here because wildfires are burning in Northern Minnesota.
We are here because the Twin Cities just had their hottest summer on record. ”
and
Ilhan Omar on Instagram: “Sisterhood is powerful. Thankful to have my sisters in service in this fight to stop the Line 3 pipeline.”
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, and Cori Bush

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "We leave more resolved than ever to fight against corporate greed, for our planet and for indigenous women.
Thank you to my sisters for joining and @MaryKunesh9 for co-leading. (pic link)" / Twitter
then
Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "And to our sis @AOC who was going to be here but is dealing with climate-fueled hurricane damage in her district as we speak.
The climate crisis does not know borders. Whether in North Minneapolis, Columbia Heights, Queens, or Bemidji, our destinies are tied. " / Twitter

Joe Manchin opposes $3.5 trillion Biden Democratic spending bill

• Joe Manchin called for Democrats to “pause” their consideration of a $3.5 trillion spending bill, though he did not rule out voting for a smaller package.
• Democrats are trying to pass both a $1 trillion infrastructure plan and a larger proposal to invest in climate policy and social programs.
• Some in the party have called the bills even more necessary as parts of the country are ravaged by wildfires or affected by flooding.

Sen. Joe Manchin just made it clear Democrats have work to do to win his vote for their sprawling economic plan — and prevent President Joe Biden’s agenda from collapsing.

 

[lpetrich]

Some people on the Left have this conspiracy theory about the likes of Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema:
Urban Dictionary: rotating villain

In American democracy, when the majority party has enough votes to pass populist legislation, party leaders designate a scapegoat who will refuse to vote with the party thereby killing the legislation. The opposition is otherwise inexplicable and typically comes from someone who is safe or not up for re-election. This allows for maximum diffusion of responsibility.

WTF??? Senator Lieberman now opposes the same health care compromise he himself suggested. Just when everyone thought Democrats had enough votes to get this done. Guess they made Lieberman the rotating villain...

by brmull March 19, 2011

The Democratic Party's deceitful game | Salon.com - datelined 2010 Feb 23 - "They are willing to bravely support any progressive bill as long as there's no chance it can pass" - by Glenn Greenwald

The primary tactic in this game is Villain Rotation. They always have a handful of Democratic Senators announce that they will be the ones to deviate this time from the ostensible party position and impede success, but the designated Villain constantly shifts, so the Party itself can claim it supports these measures while an always-changing handful of their members invariably prevent it. One minute, it's Jay Rockefeller as the Prime Villain leading the way in protecting Bush surveillance programs and demanding telecom immunity; the next minute, it's Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer joining hands and "breaking with their party" to ensure Michael Mukasey's confirmation as Attorney General; then it's Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion; then it's Blanche Lincoln and Jim Webb joining with Lindsey Graham to support the de-funding of civilian trials for Terrorists; and now that they can't blame Lieberman or Ben Nelson any longer on health care (since they don't need 60 votes), Jay Rockefeller voluntarily returns to the Villain Role, stepping up to put an end to the pretend-movement among Senate Democrats to enact the public option via reconciliation.

Glenn Greenwald on Twitter: "So thrilled that my Rotating Villain theory from 2010 explaining this dynamic has finally ascended to the heights of the Urban Dictionary: a great honor. (links)" / Twitter

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

A bunch of talk about the flooding, but not hearing much about LA’s power spine breaking with the collapse of a high tension power structure.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Some people on the Left have this conspiracy theory about the likes of Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema:
Urban Dictionary: rotating villain

In American democracy, when the majority party has enough votes to pass populist legislation, party leaders designate a scapegoat who will refuse to vote with the party thereby killing the legislation. The opposition is otherwise inexplicable and typically comes from someone who is safe or not up for re-election. This allows for maximum diffusion of responsibility.

WTF??? Senator Lieberman now opposes the same health care compromise he himself suggested. Just when everyone thought Democrats had enough votes to get this done. Guess they made Lieberman the rotating villain...

by brmull March 19, 2011

The Democratic Party's deceitful game | Salon.com - datelined 2010 Feb 23 - "They are willing to bravely support any progressive bill as long as there's no chance it can pass" - by Glenn Greenwald

The primary tactic in this game is Villain Rotation. They always have a handful of Democratic Senators announce that they will be the ones to deviate this time from the ostensible party position and impede success, but the designated Villain constantly shifts, so the Party itself can claim it supports these measures while an always-changing handful of their members invariably prevent it. One minute, it's Jay Rockefeller as the Prime Villain leading the way in protecting Bush surveillance programs and demanding telecom immunity; the next minute, it's Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer joining hands and "breaking with their party" to ensure Michael Mukasey's confirmation as Attorney General; then it's Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion; then it's Blanche Lincoln and Jim Webb joining with Lindsey Graham to support the de-funding of civilian trials for Terrorists; and now that they can't blame Lieberman or Ben Nelson any longer on health care (since they don't need 60 votes), Jay Rockefeller voluntarily returns to the Villain Role, stepping up to put an end to the pretend-movement among Senate Democrats to enact the public option via reconciliation.

Glenn Greenwald on Twitter: "So thrilled that my Rotating Villain theory from 2010 explaining this dynamic has finally ascended to the heights of the Urban Dictionary: a great honor. (links)" / Twitter

ENOUGH!

Manchin and Sinema are conservative moderates. Why are people shocked that these conservative moderates out of deep red WV and reddish purple AZ are acting like conservative moderates? You see how much WV went for Trump?!

We need to compromise on the second infrastructure deal, $3.5 trillion is a wet dream. Cut it down to $2 to $2.5 trillion, Manchin and Sinema look conservative enough to win re-election and we get expansion in aid to Americans. We need to step these programs up in a way that keeps gaining seats. And make the child tax credit monthly payout become permanent. That costs the nation nothing and helps a lot of families stay in the black instead of waiting for spring to get just above the surface.

The Dems are fucked without either one of these two. Accept the political landscape. We are almost out of time with our elections never bloody end cycle about to kick back in full force.

 

[Derec]

• Extract CO2 from our air, use it to create synthetic fuels - Energy Post
• CO2 from direct air capture as carbon feedstock for Fischer-Tropsch chemicals and fuels: Energy and economic analysis - ScienceDirect
• FIRST COMMERCIAL PLANT FOR THE PRODUCTION OF BLUE CRUDE PLANNED IN NORWAY - Sunfire
• Nordic Electrofuel – Clean at scale
•  Fischer–Tropsch process

It's a two-step process.

Ah, ok. Now I know what you mean. That is different than what is talked about there, which is about sequestering carbon dioxide underground.

 

[Derec]

Manchin and Sinema are conservative moderates. Why are people shocked that these conservative moderates out of deep red WV and reddish purple AZ are acting like conservative moderates? You see how much WV went for Trump?!

I would call them liberal moderates, but the rest is spot on. They are not so-called "progressives" and the $3.5T bill is decidedly "progressive".

We need to compromise on the second infrastructure deal, $3.5 trillion is a wet dream. Cut it down to $2 to $2.5 trillion, Manchin and Sinema look conservative enough to win re-election and we get expansion in aid to Americans. We need to step these programs up in a way that keeps gaining seats.

As long as the good parts are kept and the bad parts cut out and not the other way around.
For example, if the $1.6T expanded child tax credit is kept, there is not room for much else if the spending bill is whittled down to $2T.

The Dems are fucked without either one of these two. Accept the political landscape. We are almost out of time with our elections never bloody end cycle about to kick back in full force.

True that.

 

[Derec]

Ilhan Omar on Instagram: “We are here because nearly all of Minnesota is in a state of drought.
We are here because wildfires are burning in Northern Minnesota.
We are here because the Twin Cities just had their hottest summer on record. ”

And not fixing an aging pipeline is going to help exactly how?

Recently, Biden called on OPEC to increase its production.
U.S. calls on OPEC and its allies to pump more oil

But at the same time, Dems (including Biden) oppose domestic oil/gas production and transport infrastructure.

Ilhan Omar on Instagram: “Sisterhood is powerful. Thankful to have my sisters in service in this fight to stop the Line 3 pipeline.”
Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, and Cori Bush

Powerful to do what? Oppose actual energy infrastructure?

Sen. Joe Manchin just made it clear Democrats have work to do to win his vote for their sprawling economic plan — and prevent President Joe Biden’s agenda from collapsing.

I do not think it is really Biden's agenda. It is really the progressive/Squad agenda but Biden is too old and too suggestible to resist it.
A moderate that Biden was supposed to be (and what he ran and was elected as) would have never proposed such a bill.

 

[fromderinside]

Republican egg-chicken egg-omelet analogy.

Right. Clearly no analogy there.

But hole seeking Republicans insist noting above disparity is not fair. Quick economic recovery from pandemic with current assets must be treated the same as long term plans to defeat global warming. After all energy is mentioned in both.

Of course they do.

In the same vein hey also insist the teen epidemic of poverty ensuring unwanted children need to be treated the same way the unwanted degrading sexual insults by male bosses on young female employees by punishing and shaming the women involved.

Gotta love those money grabbing "I did it myself" claiming elitists propped up by centuries of advantage granting policies. They are out there pushing down all attempts to normalize economics. Fat Cats seeing sties while ignoring motes and cancers in the system decrying all moves to balance economic and power among peoples in democratic systems.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Pramila Jayapal has some cutesy tweets about what she wants Medicare to include:
Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "
👁 Vision
Dental
Hearing
Medicare should cover ALL health care." / Twitter
and
Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "
Hearing
Dental
Vision
They’re all part of our health, right? So why aren’t they covered by Medicare?
Expanding Medicare is a no-brainer." / Twitter


This is how bad it is in NYC:
President Joseph R. Biden, Jr. Approves New York Emergency Declaration | The White House

Deanne Criswell on Twitter: "On behalf of @POTUS, our thoughts go out to everyone impacted by the tragic flooding events. Thank you @SenSchumer @AOC @NYCMayor for joining me today so I could see the damage and destruction first hand. Individuals should call 1-800-621-FEMA for federal assistance. (pix link)" / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Thank you FEMA Administrator Criswell for visiting Woodside and working with us to expedite individual assistance after Ida.
NYC: President Biden & FEMA have officially authorized individual assistance programs w/ disaster grants up to $34k.
Apply here: (link)" / Twitter

Home | disasterassistance.gov
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Instagram: “NYC Ida Assistance Update …”

It's so bad that AOC skipped that Line 3 event to survey the damage in her district.

Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley on Twitter: "Today we met with Indigenous Water Protectors fighting the Line 3 pipeline.
They've protested peacefully & faced brutality by police paid for by Enbridge.
Their treaty rights have been violated & their livelihoods are at risk. There must be accountability & we must #StopLine3. (pix link)" / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Ilhan Omar on Twitter: "Then start with stopping Line 3. (link)" / Twitter
linking to:

Last April, Biden wants the world to trust America on climate change - Vox - "It’s going to be a tough sell."

President Joe Biden’s administration has quite the pitch to 40 nations at this week’s global climate summit: Yes, America hasn’t truly led on climate change recently, but we will now and into the future. Trust us.

An official then gave three reasons.

First, this official said that climate change is a global problem that other nations must, and therefore will, address. ...

Second, countries shouldn’t read too much into the last four years of President Donald Trump, who abruptly pulled the US out of the Paris climate accord and appointed fossil fuel lobbyists to run America’s environmental agencies. ...

Third, America will lead by example, and other countries should follow it — and feel free to critique the US if it fails to live up to its promises. ...

Rather optimistic.

America’s political swings make meaningful progress difficult

The biggest issue with the Biden administration’s argument that it’s back to being a world leader on climate could be the next midterm election.

The US gets these drastic policy swings because its two major parties have become too polarized over the issue.

Currently, the US could do a lot, but it's in the $3.5T budget reconciliation bill. Things like a Civilian Climate Corps, modeled on the original New Deal's Civilian Conservation Corps. But Congress has only recently returned from its recent recess, so it has a lot of work ahead.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "The transformative Build Back Better package is full of popular policies that would help MILLIONS of families.

Time to invest in:
Paid leave
Child care
Education
Health care
Affordable housing
🏞Clean air, safe drinking water, and public lands (link)" / Twitter

From Cradle to Grave, Democrats Move to Expand Social Safety Net - The New York Times - "The $3.5 trillion social policy bill that lawmakers begin drafting this week would touch virtually every American, at every point in life, from conception to old age."

Passage of the bill, which could spend as much as $3.5 trillion over the next decade, is anything but certain. President Biden, who has staked much of his domestic legacy on the measure’s enactment, will need the vote of every single Democrat in the Senate, and virtually every one in the House, to secure it. And with two Democratic senators, Joe Manchin III of West Virginia and Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona, saying they would not accept such a costly plan, it will challenge Democratic unity like nothing has since the Affordable Care Act.

I have this picture of Joe Biden twisting Joe Manchin's arms and Kamala Harris twisting Kyrsten Sinema's arms.

That is largely because the proposed legislation would be so transformative — a cradle-to-grave reweaving of a social safety net frayed by decades of expanding income inequality, stagnating wealth and depleted governmental resources, capped by the worst public health crisis in a century.

Republicans call it socialism, of course, and excessively European.

In a mechanical sense, the legislation is not as much of a sea change as the creation of Medicare and Medicaid in the 1960s, or Social Security in the 1930s. Even the Affordable Care Act of 2010 created an entirely new government infrastructure, a federally operated or regulated exchange where Americans could buy private health insurance that has to conform to government strictures on coverage and cost, noted Michael R. Strain, an economist at the conservative American Enterprise Institute.

In contrast, the new legislation would largely augment existing programs. Childcare support would come through the Community Development Block Grant to states, cities and counties. Universal pre-K would be secured through block grants and expanded funding to Head Start. Two years of higher education are supposed to become accessible through more generous Pell grants and other existing financial aid programs.

But if it passes, Mr. Strain said the legislation could fundamentally change the relationship between the state and its citizens: “Its ambition is in its size.”

I think that the Democrats ought to package this legislation as "national defense", part of having strong soldiers. Right-wingers are eager to rubber-stamp anything with that label.

After noting the child tax credit of $300/month/child,

And the federal government, not private employers, would pay most of the salaries of people qualifying for family and medical leave.

“If we get this passed, a decade from now, people are going to see many more touch points of government supporting them and their families,” Ms. Boushey said.

But it avoids a certain Tragedy of the Commons problem that comes from employers doing it.

 

[lpetrich]

Scoop: Behind Manchin's $1.5 trillion reconciliation limit - Axios

Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.V.) has privately warned the White House and congressional leaders that he has specific policy concerns with President Biden's $3.5 trillion social spending dream — and he'll support as little as $1 trillion of it.

At most, he's open to supporting $1.5 trillion, sources familiar with the discussions say.

...
Manchin has voiced concerns about Biden’s plan to spend $400 billion for home caregivers.

He's also talking about means testing on other key proposals, including extending the enhanced Child Tax Credit, which provides up to an additional $300 per child per month, free community college, universal preschool and child care tax credits.

...
What we're hearing: The White House still appears optimistic that a deal can be reached.

Manchin was careful in his WSJ piece not to close the door to future negotiations.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "The transformative Build Back Better package is full of popular policies that would help MILLIONS of families.
Time to invest in:
Paid leave
Child care
Education
Health care
Affordable housing
🏞Clean air, safe drinking water, and public lands (link)" / Twitter
To the NYTimes article.

 

[lpetrich]

Sahil Kapur on Twitter: "Rep. AOC is a NO on infrastructure without reconciliation.

"Nothing would give me more pleasure than to tank a billionaire, dark money, fossil fuel, Exxon lobbyist-drafted 'energy' infrastructure bill if they come after our child care and climate priorities."

Video via source: (vid link)" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Instagram: “This past week…”

This past week has been a very difficult one for our community. The torrential downpours from Ida devastated thousands our community - from family homes in Throggs Neck to the hundreds (if not thousands) of inundated children’s books at our beloved LeFrak Public Library. We lost over a dozen people in the floods in our district alone — with the vast majority of these tragedies connected to safety hazards in off-the-books basement dwellings that people have turned to in the city’s cost of living / housing crisis.
.
I have spent the last week canvassing the community, working with FEMA and the President, Governor, State & local officials, block associations and community members to cut through red tape and try to get relief out as swiftly as possible. Here’s the good news: help is here. We’ve worked to make this one of the fastest EVER FEMA approvals for disaster relief. Folks can apply NOW at DisasterAssistance.gov for individual assistance up to $34k. Document EVERYTHING. Take photos of all your belongings. (Protip: snap photos of the bar codes / model stickers on your major appliances, electronics, high ticket items, etc).
.
The hard news: climate change is here. Relief can only go so far. Without examining our systems of power and wealth, (why are rents so high that we must resort to dangerous living conditions when 1/2 the luxury apartments in Manhattan are vacant? Why are insurance companies allowed to deny people flood insurance,& then when a storm hits they deny people’s claims - putting the cost of climate change on everyday people? Why do our officials allocate trillions for war but not enough to rebuild our 100+ year old sewer systems? Why are fossil fuel companies getting away with lying to the public about climate change for decades?) we will find ourselves in this position again and again. People deserve better and we ALL become safer when we challenge the systems that harm the many for the benefit of the few, and dare to try new policies and systems that will prepare us for what is to come. I believe in a better future for all of us - we just need the faith that we can do it and the will to fight for someone we don’t know.
.
Love and solidarity,
AOC

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Instagram: “NYC Ida Assistance Update…”
She said toward the end that this is why we need infrastructure investment. She concedes that she will then go onto a political soapbox, and she asked why the military budget goes up year after year and year and not FEMA's to the same degree. Why not fund climate mitigation to the same degree? She said that climate change should be treated as a national-security threat.

She says that people consider a Green New Deal too expensive but for some reason, but she stopped short after describing what she considered a grotesque waste of taxpayers' money. I am guessing that it is spending over $2 trillion in Afghanistan is OK, even if we never got much out of it.

 

[lpetrich]

Joe Manchin’s Dirty Empire - "The West Virginia Senator Reaps Big Financial Rewards From a Network of Coal Companies With Grim Records of Pollution, Safety Violations, and Death"

"Manchin’s claim that climate pollution would be worsened by the elimination of fossil fuels — or by the resolution’s actual, more incremental climate provisions — is highly dubious, if not outright false. What would unquestionably be impacted, however, is Manchin’s own personal wealth."

Opinion | Joe Manchin’s demands are getting clearer, and they aren’t pretty - The Washington Post

To be honest, I liked Joe Manchin III better when he didn’t believe in much of anything.

That’s an exaggeration, of course — the West Virginia Democrat has always believed in some things even if he’s the classic kind of “centrist” who knows where he stands only once he has a right and left to position himself between. But as Democrats try to negotiate a budget reconciliation bill, Manchin has gone from general expressions of concern and demands for appeasement to a more specific brand of threats and demands. And it isn’t pretty.

Then noting Manchin lays out long list of demands as key Senate chairs move to win his vote - CNNPolitics

• A smaller child tax credit
• Limits on pre-K
• Limits on free community college
• Less money for home care
• Lower tax rates for corporations

 

[lpetrich]

Mehdi Hasan on Twitter: "On the @MehdiHasanShow, we found a clip of @Sen_JoeManchin back in January calling for up to **$4 trillion** in new infrastructure spending.

So what changed Senator? What changed?

Watch/share: (vid link)" / Twitter
Beats me. Could it be that there was not enough for his big donors?

Trying to get more nuts-and-bolts infrastructure into the reconciliation bill:
Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley on Twitter: "The Senate infrastructure bill does little to address climate change & invest in transportation.

That's why @RepChuyGarcia, @RepHankJohnson & I want an additional $30B for public transit in the reconciliation bill.

Public transit is a public good & we must invest in it as such. (link)" / Twitter

On the other side from Joe Manchin is AOC:
Chris Sommerfeldt on Twitter: ".@AOC's campaign says their volunteers have helped 173,000+ constituents with applying for federal and state storm recovery programs since Ida hit. Is the city/state doing any type of similar outreach, and how do the numbers compare if so? cc: @BNeidhardt, @BryanLesswing" / Twitter

A Republican Rep from western NY State:
Claudia Tenney on Twitter: ".@AOC's district is one of the most affected by Hurricane Ida and rather than focusing on relief money she's spent the week musing about men menstruating and calling people who are pro-life proponents of "rape culture".

This is the lady Nancy Pelosi takes orders from." / Twitter
Nancy Pelosi takes orders from AOC???

Then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "This week alone I worked w/ FEMA, Gov & @POTUS to make this one of the fastest FEMA responses in history, organized to connect 173k of my constituents to disaster grants, toured small businesses to assess damage, AND fought for LGBT+ justice.

Don’t be mad if you can’t keep up " / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "I know Republicans’ idea of “disaster relief” is flying to Cancun while the power’s still out, but unlike that approach I actually give a damn " / Twitter

 

[lpetrich]

Consider Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor on 1941 Dec 7. Would JM have voted against declaring war on Japan unless he got a comprehensive plan for paying for the war effort?

The Japanese attack on US was an existential threat. It is hardly comparable to a humongous spending bill, almost half of which is a new subsidy for having children.

That still does not address my point. If massive government spending is economically debilitating, then is economically debilitating no matter what the money is spent on. By not having a comprehensive plan of pay-fors, according to this argument, the US would be headed to economic ruin, and whatever victories it might have over the Axis powers will turn out to be Pyrrhic ones, ones that leave the US ruined by government spending.

According to what deficit hawks claim to believe, a massive, all-out effort against the Axis powers without proper financing of it would leave the US so ruined that it will become easy pickings for those powers. Nazi Germany would conquer the eastern half and Imperial Japan the western half.

 

[Derec]

That still does not address my point. If massive government spending is economically debilitating, then is economically debilitating no matter what the money is spent on.

That's nonsense. Of course it matters a great deal what the spending is for.
As to WWII specifically, that was such a shock to the entire world economy that it can not be applied to regular peacetime spending. Europe and much of the rest of the world lay in ruins and US and its industrial base was largely unscathed and was thus able to capitalize on rebuilding the world.