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President Biden's Infrastructure Plans

Derec

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The poll Omar is referring to seems to be the same poll by a left-wing think tank that ZiprHead was quoting. How about a poll by an unbiased polling outfit?
Also, how much do people know about what is in the bill. For example, how many West Virginians itemize their deductions, and out of those, how many pay more than $10k in state and local taxes? And what about West Virginians who do not have children? Because between the SALT deduction expansion (aka a "tax cut for some rich") and subsidies for people with children, that's almost the entire B3 dollar amount! If you are not in one or the other group, B3 is not really benefitting you much, unlike BIF.

Shahid Buttar is running against Nancy Pelosi in CA-12 -- he did so in 2018 and 2020. Back when BIF was passed:
Shahid Buttar for Congress on Twitter: "We are witnessing capital assault democracy yet again.
A legislature democratically passing a bill is an assault on democracy? What has this Butter person been smoking?
Well, then it's a good thing he did not win.
 

Derec

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Impact of your “NO”:

- no more child tax credit payments
There will still be a child tax credit, just not quite as generous as under B3. There is also EITC which is mostly benefitting those with children as well.
- no immigration protections
Wasn't possible under reconciliation rules anyway.
- no public transit investments
There are public transit investments
- no $ for making flood insurance more affordable
Don't keep rebuilding in floodplains. I do not see why federal government should subsidize flood insurance for people rebuilding their house for the 3rd time in 15 years or something.
Another impact of Manchin's "NO":
- no tax cuts for the rich (aka SALT deduction cap increase to $80k).
 

Trausti

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Hee hee.

FG_fBsDXEAs2hNa
 

Derec

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The iniquities of the daughters shall be visited upon the fathers? Also, what about Hunter Biden?
Unfortunately, Joe Biden isn't LBJ, because bringing up things like that is what LBJ would likely have done.

AOC really isn't that smart, is she? If you can get 10 Republicans for a piece of the bill (e.g. insulin), then you do not need reconciliation and the vote is not subject to the "two per year" limit.

Exactly. AOC misunderstood Senate rules.

That's a reasonable point, but where are we going to find those 10 Republicans?
You'd have to find them in the Senate. A tall order for sure, but one or two of the pieces of B3 could find a 60 vote majority in the Senate next year.
 

Derec

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A sensible decision. Illegals are not a budgetary issue and thus reconciliation is not appropriate.

Which would set a very bad precedent.

Disaster is in the eye of the beholder. And here is Manchin's statement:
Joe Manchin said:
“My Democratic colleagues in Washington are determined to dramatically reshape our society in a way that leaves our country even more vulnerable to the threats we face. I cannot take that risk with a staggering debt of more than $29 trillion and inflation taxes that are real and harmful to every hard-working American at the gasoline pumps, grocery stores and utility bills with no end in sight.

“The American people deserve transparency on the true cost of the Build Back Better Act. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office determined the cost is upwards of $4.5 trillion which is more than double what the bill’s ardent supporters have claimed. They continue to camouflage the real cost of the intent behind this bill.
Main point seems to be dishonest pricing of the bill.

When a handful of us in the House warned this would happen if Dem leaders gave Manchin everything he wanted 1st by moving BIF before BBB instead of passing together, many ridiculed our position.

Maybe they’ll believe us next time. Or maybe people will just keep calling us naïve.
This obstructionist tactic risked BIF as well. It was a game of chicken and the fauxgressives swerved first.

Our entire democracy is on the line. So we need to get back in there & get this sh*t done. Period
No AOC, our entire democracy in not on the line just because a bad bill might not pass. That's quite a silly thing to say!
 

Derec

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Derec

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[emphasis mine]
I know fauxgressives believe math is racist, but "nearly 50 senators" means less than 50 senators, which is a minority. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.


Manchin has every right to support or oppose any legislation at his own discretion. Just like Cori Bush. Just like any other lawmaker.

Rep. Cori Bush Wednesday lamented delays in Senate negotiations on Democrats' massive reconciliation spending bill, including the fact that Sen. Joe Manchin essentially has veto power over the legislation because the Senate is split 50-50.
"We must not undermine our power as a government nor the power of the people by placing the fate of Build Back Better at the feet of one senator: Joe Manchin," Bush, D-Mo., said.
But every senator has the same power - any Democrat could withold his support from B3, and likewise any Republican could announce his support, rendering Manchin moot.

"Today’s reporting that the Build Back Better Act may be put on the shelf for the foreseeable future is alarming," Bush added. "To my community, I promise you that I am doing everything in my power to ensure that this decision does not become permanent."
What power exactly does Cori Bush believe a congresswoman form Missouri should be able to exercise over a senator from West Virginia?
 

Derec

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That’s not what Derec thinks. He said that states like Florida and Georgia are subsidizing Californians’ high state and local tax rates.
More accurately, individual taxpayers in those states are subsidizing high state and local taxes in states like CA and NY.
 

TV and credit cards

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Impact of your “NO”:

- no more child tax credit payments
There will still be a child tax credit, just not quite as generous as under B3. There is also EITC which is mostly benefitting those with children as well.
For people living paycheck to paycheck, the credit should be monthly, not once a year as part of a tax return.
 

Shadowy Man

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That’s not what Derec thinks. He said that states like Florida and Georgia are subsidizing Californians’ high state and local tax rates.
More accurately, individual taxpayers in those states are subsidizing high state and local taxes in states like CA and NY.
That doesn’t change my point. Tax payers in California are subsidizing those states more. If we took away the ability for states’ taxpayers to subsidize each other those in Florida and Georgia would be worse off than those in California so it seems an odd complaint to make.
 

Jimmy Higgins

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Impact of your “NO”:

- no more child tax credit payments
There will still be a child tax credit, just not quite as generous as under B3. There is also EITC which is mostly benefitting those with children as well.
For people living paycheck to paycheck, the credit should be monthly, not once a year as part of a tax return.
Yes. Applying this monthly allows these families to spend the money as they need it, instead of getting out of the red every March.

And I can't wait until the GOP argues Biden is responsible for lower tax refunds (due to the prepaid Child Tax Credit).
 

blastula

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VOTERS SUPPORT THE BUILD BACK BETER PLAN We tested support for the Build Back Better plan, the $3.5 trillion budget proposal Democrats in Congress are now considering. We find that likely voters in the state support this proposed investment plan by a margin of +43 points. Democrats, Independents, and Republicans support the plan by margins of +86 points, +33 points, and +22 points.
Yeah, how about a poll that is not from  Data for Progress, a "left-wing think tank"?

As opposed to the prestigious MBE Research poll? Both polls could be called push polls, though at least the MBE one was more recent.
 

ZiprHead

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Disaster is in the eye of the beholder. And here is Manchin's statement:
Joe Manchin said:
“My Democratic colleagues in Washington are determined to dramatically reshape our society in a way that leaves our country even more vulnerable to the threats we face. I cannot take that risk with a staggering debt of more than $29 trillion and inflation taxes that are real and harmful to every hard-working American at the gasoline pumps, grocery stores and utility bills with no end in sight.

“The American people deserve transparency on the true cost of the Build Back Better Act. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office determined the cost is upwards of $4.5 trillion which is more than double what the bill’s ardent supporters have claimed. They continue to camouflage the real cost of the intent behind this bill.
Main point seems to be dishonest pricing of the bill.
Manchin is using a Republican talking point. The bill sent to the CBO for scoring was not the bill in question. It was a figment of Lindsey Graham's imagination.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Impact of your “NO”:

- no more child tax credit payments
There will still be a child tax credit, just not quite as generous as under B3. There is also EITC which is mostly benefitting those with children as well.
For people living paycheck to paycheck, the credit should be monthly, not once a year as part of a tax return.

Adjust your withholding. You get it in every paycheck unless you're below the point where you pay any income tax.
 

Derec

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For people living paycheck to paycheck, the credit should be monthly, not once a year as part of a tax return.
Tax credits are usually applied at tax-time though. And what about people who live paycheck to paycheck but have no children?
And mind you, the increased CTC does not even begin to phase out until $150k (for married people) and does not fully phase out until $400k.

So basically a childless person making $20k is getting less from B3 than somebody with children making 10 times as much.
 

Derec

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That doesn’t change my point. Tax payers in California are subsidizing those states more.
They are not "subsidizing states". It's taxpayers paying for federal programs that can be spent in other states. That's normal for federal spending.
That is very different than taxpayers in state A effectively paying for state and local programs in state B. Especially when it is less well off people who subsidize state and local taxes of people making much more because SALT deductions are a very regressive tax break.
 

Derec

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As opposed to the prestigious MBE Research poll? Both polls could be called push polls, though at least the MBE one was more recent.
I am not familiar with MBE, and thus can't opine on it, but my point is that DfP was founded specifically to support left wing and "progressive" causes and policies.
 

Derec

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Manchin is using a Republican talking point. The bill sent to the CBO for scoring was not the bill in question. It was a figment of Lindsey Graham's imagination.
It is true though. When Manchin wanted the B3 whittled down to $1.75T from $3.5T the House Dems thought they were slick and did not cut any programs, but used accounting gimmicks to make the bill appear to cost half. The most expensive portion, the increased CTC, was only funded for one year, even though obviously Dems do not intend for it to expire in 2023.

Manchin wanted real cuts in programs, but it seems that the White House did not want to change the bill passed by the House too much.
Vox has an interesting take on this.
Two ways to read Manchin’s “no” on Build Back Better

Vox said:
All year, Manchin has criticized these plans’ overall cost, and urged Democrats to bring the amount of the bill down to $1.75 trillion over 10 years. The White House met this demand in a creative way — they kept almost all of the new programs in the bill, but set many to expire after a few years, which made the bill’s 10-year cost look cheaper.
Since early November, Manchin has made clear he was not a fan of this approach, saying it entailed “shell games” and “budget gimmicks.” He demanded the bill do fewer things, and fully fund those things over 10 years. But Democratic leaders resisted, not wanting to upset progressives or any constituencies by cutting their favored priorities.
[...]
Again, Manchin has been saying this since early November, so it hardly comes as a surprise. And if Manchin really did make an offer to the White House this week, as Psaki claims, that suggests he has an idea of what he’d accept. What’s odder is that there’s been no known effort from the White House or top Democrats to revise the bill in that way, even though he was long known to be the crucial swing vote. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi briefly seemed inclined toward a bill that would do “fewer things better,” but she reversed course after House progressives disagreed, instead crafting a House bill that exemplified the “keep everything in, but set it to expire soon” approach.

So there is a chance that a version of the bill may pass yet, if the Dem leadership (esp. Biden, Schumer and Pelosi) grow some balls/ovaries and resist the fauxgressives' maximalist demands.

Edited to add another, very short, article about an offer made by Manchin to the White House.

Manchin Made Private Offer to White House

It says Manchin offered a $1.8T bill, fully funded for 10 years, but it would not include increased CTC.
 

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Impact of your “NO”:

- no more child tax credit payments
There will still be a child tax credit, just not quite as generous as under B3. There is also EITC which is mostly benefitting those with children as well.
For people living paycheck to paycheck, the credit should be monthly, not once a year as part of a tax return.

Adjust your withholding. You get it in every paycheck unless you're below the point where you pay any income tax.
I mention this because I used to do VITA (Voluntary Income Tax Assistance) for my shipmates. I told them and told them and told them about adjusting their withholding. Almost to a person, they preferred that one fat check once a year. I told them they are giving the government an interest free loan. Doesn't matter. These were mostly enlisted personnel in the lower paygrades. Not poor but definitely living paycheck to paycheck.
It may be the same monetarily but one fat check once a year is a source of happiness for them. There is not the financial discipline to actually save it month over month to come to the same ends. They mostly said they were going to pay off their credit card(s) with it which I took with a grain of salt.

But for folks so poor they cannot make it paycheck to paycheck, those monthly checks are a big help for the necessities.

Were it me, I'd make "Exemptions" true and difficult to change. Make sure folks are close to even-steven come tax time without owing. This way they do have more of their own money to spend month over month before having to rely on the food locker.
 

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For people living paycheck to paycheck, the credit should be monthly, not once a year as part of a tax return.
Tax credits are usually applied at tax-time though. And what about people who live paycheck to paycheck but have no children?
And mind you, the increased CTC does not even begin to phase out until $150k (for married people) and does not fully phase out until $400k.

So basically a childless person making $20k is getting less from B3 than somebody with children making 10 times as much.
Yeah, it's a problem. There's no love for the single person most anywhere in the tax tables.
I know. I've been in that boat for many years. In my most recently employed years I've had to claim S0 + withhold even more just to avoid a sizable tax bill. The government hates single people. I know. But on the whole, if I had to choose between being a single guy having to take the standard deduction, getting raked over the tax code and being married with many children, I think I'd just as soon let Uncle Sam have his way with me. It's almost like he knows how happy I am and is penalizing me for it.
 

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VOTERS SUPPORT THE BUILD BACK BETER PLAN We tested support for the Build Back Better plan, the $3.5 trillion budget proposal Democrats in Congress are now considering. We find that likely voters in the state support this proposed investment plan by a margin of +43 points. Democrats, Independents, and Republicans support the plan by margins of +86 points, +33 points, and +22 points.
Yeah, how about a poll that is not from  Data for Progress, a "left-wing think tank"?
if you have a more palatable poll, you're welcome to post it.
 

Loren Pechtel

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Were it me, I'd make "Exemptions" true and difficult to change. Make sure folks are close to even-steven come tax time without owing. This way they do have more of their own money to spend month over month before having to rely on the food locker.
Exemptions work pretty well for single-earner households.

They seriously do not work well if there are multiple jobs, whether from one person taking more than one job, or from two jobholders in the household. Two jobs with variable income? The current system simply can't handle it.

At this point we are dual-earner, both self-employed, both substantially variable income. Some years back I threw in the towel on the idea of being even steven on Apr 15, I use the safe harbor rules, each of the 4 estimated payments is 1/4 of the total tax bill from the previous year and I let the chips fall where they may. Come Apr 15 there's probably a 4-figure payment involved, but it could be in either direction. It's typically smaller than when I tried to actually figure it out, though.
 

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Well, it's not over. I think that Joe is trying to get more (maybe more cuts) or some kind of compromise. I think that BBB will be back. But if you want some perspective, check out his opponent that he beat by 20,000 votes: Patrick Morrisey. This guy joined several other states in announcing a federal lawsuit to nullify the 2020 election results from 16 democratic states:


I've got some issues with Joe. But he's a 1,000 times better than Morrisey, a borderline traitor.
 

lpetrich

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Final Child Tax Credit Payments Go Out Amid Doubt Over Program’s Future | HuffPost Latest News - Dec 16
Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) told HuffPost it's "bulls**t" to ask his position on continuing the payments.

...
Sen Joe Manchin (D-W.Va) has refused to say he would support the bill, which would also expand access to prekindergarten, subsidize child care and create a host of green energy tax incentives.

The child tax credit itself has always been a point of contention, with Manchin demanding a “work requirement” that would exclude the poorest families, and a lower cutoff to exclude people with higher incomes. Democrats had refused Manchin’s demands and omitted the provisions from their drafts of the legislation, and several senators have told HuffPost they thought they had an agreement to extend the enhanced credit for one year.

But Manchin declined to say Wednesday whether he supported continuing the $300 monthly payments in their current form as part of Build Back Better.

“I’ve always been for child tax credits,” Manchin told HuffPost.

Manchin's child tax credit stance draws criticism back home | AP News - Dec 16
In West Virginia, one of the country’s poorest states, the effect was immediate, advocates say.

“There is no state that’s more impacted by the CTC,” said Kelly Allen, executive director of the West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy. “West Virginia, frankly, wasn’t doing great before the pandemic. So this is absolutely needed now and in the long term.”

On Dec. 15, CTC payments went out to 181,000 West Virginia families, according to Treasury Department figures. The payments averaged $446 and reached 305,000 children. Those payments could end this month, if the Biden package doesn’t pass in the next few days.
Which shows how out of touch he is with his constituents.
 

lpetrich

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Goldman cuts GDP forecast after Sen. Manchin says he won't support Biden's 'Build Back Better' plan
The apparent failure of President Joe Biden’s “Build Back Better” plan means that economic growth could be weaker than expected next year, according to Goldman Sachs.

The plan hit a significant road block on Sunday when West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin said he would not support the legislation, meaning that the bill does not have enough votes to pass the Senate.

Goldman Sachs Chief Economist Jan Hatzius said in a note to clients on Sunday that the failure of the bill — which includes significant spending on climate infrastructure and social programs — would slow economic growth in 2022.

...
Goldman slightly lowered its real GDP growth forecast for each of the first three quarters in 2022. The firm now projects 2% growth in the first quarter, followed by 3% and 2.75% in the following two periods. Goldman previously expected growth of 3%, 3.5% and 3%.
Differences of -1%, -0.5%, and -0.25%.

Joe Manchin Privately Told Colleagues Parents Use Child Tax Credit Money On Drugs | HuffPost Latest News - "The West Virginia senator just killed Democrats' agenda. In private negotiations, he questioned whether the poorest Americans would spend financial aid wisely."
Publicly, his biggest gripes are about the cost of the bill. But privately, Manchin has told his colleagues that he essentially doesn’t trust low-income people to spend government money wisely.

In recent months, Manchin has told several of his fellow Democrats that he thought parents would waste monthly child tax credit payments on drugs instead of providing for their children, according to two sources familiar with the senator’s comments.
It was a policy that cut childhood poverty by 30%.
Manchin’s private comments shocked several senators, who saw it as an unfair assault on his own constituents and those struggling to raise children in poverty.

Manchin has also told colleagues he believes that Americans would fraudulently use the proposed paid sick leave policy, specifically saying people would feign being sick and go on hunting trips, a source familiar with his comments told HuffPost.
I've seen right-wingers say things like that for decades. Ronald Reagan made a big issue out of the "Chicago Welfare Queen", an exaggeration of a real fraud case.
Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio), a top proponent of the child payments, said he had heard of Manchin’s remarks about the money going toward drugs but wasn’t paying any mind to it.

“The stories I hear the most, if you put it in categories, are child care, school supplies, college fund, phone bills,” Brown told HuffPost last week. “My focus is getting this program — which is the best thing Congress has done in 25 years — making sure it continues.”

The concern that some parents would use the benefit for drugs echoes years of conservative talking points on welfare. During Barack Obama’s presidency, Republicans in Congress and state legislatures around the country sought to add drug testing to requirements to nutrition assistance, unemployment benefits and the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) program, which provides monthly cash benefits to poor parents.

More than a dozen states enacted drug testing policies from 2011 through 2017, resulting in less than 1% of applicants actually testing positive for drugs. States lawmakers have generally lost interest in the policy in recent years.
A lot of effort with very little gain, it seems.
 

lpetrich

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Jen Psaki Slams Joe Manchin's Build Back Better Opposition
notes
Statement from Press Secretary Jen Psaki | The White House
Senator Manchin’s comments this morning on FOX are at odds with his discussions this week with the President, with White House staff, and with his own public utterances. Weeks ago, Senator Manchin committed to the President, at his home in Wilmington, to support the Build Back Better framework that the President then subsequently announced. Senator Manchin pledged repeatedly to negotiate on finalizing that framework “in good faith.”

On Tuesday of this week, Senator Manchin came to the White House and submitted—to the President, in person, directly—a written outline for a Build Back Better bill that was the same size and scope as the President’s framework, and covered many of the same priorities. While that framework was missing key priorities, we believed it could lead to a compromise acceptable to all. Senator Manchin promised to continue conversations in the days ahead, and to work with us to reach that common ground. If his comments on FOX and written statement indicate an end to that effort, they represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position, and a breach of his commitments to the President and the Senator’s colleagues in the House and Senate.
Then defending various aspects of the bill, like saying that it won't cause inflation.
Just as Senator Manchin reversed his position on Build Back Better this morning, we will continue to press him to see if he will reverse his position yet again, to honor his prior commitments and be true to his word.

In the meantime, Senator Manchin will have to explain to those families paying $1,000 a month for insulin why they need to keep paying that, instead of $35 for that vital medicine. He will have to explain to the nearly two million women who would get the affordable day care they need to return to work why he opposes a plan to get them the help they need. Maybe Senator Manchin can explain to the millions of children who have been lifted out of poverty, in part due to the Child Tax Credit, why he wants to end a program that is helping achieve this milestone—we cannot.
 

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Rep. Cori Bush isn't giving up.
Congresswoman Cori Bush on Twitter: "We have been saying this all along: The people have to win.
This isn't over. (vid link)" / Twitter

then
Kenyon Farrow on Twitter: "Of all people who owe @CoriBush an apology, @clairecmc needs to be first in line. McCaskill tried to throw Bush under the bus for voting no on the infrastructure bill, knowing damn well the progressives were trying to tie the two bills together to avoid the mess we’re in now." / Twitter
then
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Yup" / Twitter

Sarah Reese Jones on Twitter: ".@AOC on #MorningJoe , "I think right now that Democratic leadership has a very large number of tools at their disposal. The president particularly. And it's really about time that we take the kid gloves off and start using them to govern for working families in this country." (vid link)" / Twitter

The Recount on Twitter: "Rep. @AOC (D-NY) says Sen. Manchin opposition “is an outcome that we warned about” and Dems have “every right to be furious with Joe Manchin.”
“It’s really about time that we take the kid gloves off and we start using them to govern for working families in this country.” (vid link)" / Twitter


Quint Forgey on Twitter: ".@AOC thrashing the Senate: "God forbid that they might actually have to show up and stand or sit and actually have to talk and actually live out the threat of their filibuster. I mean, it is unconscionable the way that the Senate operates. It's fundamentally undemocratic." (vid link)" / Twitter

Instead of that stupid Taste-of-Armageddon putting a hold on a bill.

Quint Forgey on Twitter: ".@AOC: "I think ..." / Twitter
I think what Senator Manchin did yesterday represents such an egregious breach of the trust of the president. … It's an outcome that we had warned about.

Of course, we have every right to be furious with Joe Manchin. But it's really up to leadership in the Democratic Party who made the decision to get us to this juncture and how we're going to move forward.

I think right now that Democratic leadership has a very large number of tools at their disposal, the president particularly. And it's really about time that we take the kid gloves off and we start using them to govern for working families in this country.

(not exactly sparing Biden) When that decision to separate and to advance" the infrastructure bill was made, "the president did say that the [BBB] was promised, and that he's got it. And we said, with respect to the president, no one can really promise a Manchin vote.

(she implicitly calls for new Democratic leadership in Congress) Our leadership needs to step up. ... I do not believe that the situation is beyond repair. But it's going to take a different kind of thinking to get out of it than it did to get into it.

Folks sometimes jokingly call the Senate 'private school' for a reason. ... Just the fact that you can go on Fox News and say, 'I don't feel like voting for this.' ... We really need to create a governing environment in the United States Senate.

(she wants Manchin on the record) Call the vote. Have to stand in front of your constituents and say, 'No, I'm going to take dollars. I'm going to take the food out of your kids' mouths.' Make him take that vote. They made us take the vote for [infrastructure].

(she says the House is) arguably ... one of the only federal, democratically elected governing majorities that we have left. The Senate, notoriously, is designed for lower populations to have more power. ... The presidency is determined by the electoral college.

(thrashing the Senate) God forbid that they might actually have to show up and stand or sit and actually have to talk and actually live out the threat of their filibuster. I mean, it is unconscionable the way that the Senate operates. It's fundamentally undemocratic.

(she says BBB) has already been retrofitted (to Manchin's liking) This idea that we're going to go back to the table and give him the pen again for a bill that he already has his ink all over makes very little sense. ... Being strung along has been the path this entire time.
 

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That full interview:

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez On Manchin: An Egregious Breach Of The Trust Of The President - YouTube

Rep. Ocasio-Cortez: We Are Beyond The Time For Something On Voting Rights To Pass - YouTube

AOC says that Senators should be under the sorts of pressures that Reps are, like having to vote late at night. Morning Joe was in Congress, and he said that his colleagues often referred to the Senate as the House of Lords. He said that Senators often treated the House as irrelevant.

The House of Lords is the upper house of the UK Parliament, and it is nowadays almost completely irrelevant.

AOC then said that the House is the only Federally-elected body left that is representative of the people. But there wasn't some good old days of better representation - the House was always the most-representative body. The Senate was always 2 Senators per state, something that gives Wyoming 70 times the Senate representation per person than California. The Electoral College has been an aggregated and weighted popular vote for nearly all of the US's history.

She also claimed that she represents at least as many people as JM does. But WV's population is 1.8 million, while each Rep represents about 760 thousand people, about 2 1/3 more.

She said that she thinks that there is a different reason behind JM's vote, without specifying it.

Then MJ got into how Ted Cruz obstructed the Senate about ambassador and State-Dept confirmations. When Maj Ldr Chuck Schumer announced that the Senate would stay in session as long as it took, TC started compromising. He also mentioned the Senate making an exception for the filibuster for the debt limit.

She wants a return to the talking filibuster, and she wants the President to lean on the Senate to be less obstructionist.

Morning Joe is Joe Scarborough, who was R-FL-01 in the House over 1995-2001.
 

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Tara Golshan on Twitter: "Manchin on WV radio saying he knew from the beginning he wouldn't support BBB, but let Democrats negotiate.

That he got to his "wits end" after staff (either White House or Senate) did *something* that angered him enough to just come out and say he was never going to get to yes" / Twitter


Then why did he negotiate?

Tara Golshan on Twitter: "I have guess as to what it was that got Manchin so riled up and it has to do with him calling @ArthurDelaneyHP "Bullshit."(link)" / Twitter

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "When we suggested ..." / Twitter
When we suggested this months ago, people were outraged, accused us of insulting people’s character, called us disruptive, etc

Capitol Hill is full of folks who convince themselves they’re 3 steps ahead by rationalizing to themselves why the obvious isn’t true. A hustler’s dream

Biden needs to lean on his executive authority now. He has been delaying and underutilizing it so far. There is an enormous amount he can do on climate, student debt, immigration, cannabis, health care, and more.

Time is running out - we need to move and use alternative paths.

From Morning Joe himself:
Morning Joe on Twitter: ""I think what Sen. Manchin did yesterday represents such an egregious breach of trust of the president." --@aoc (vid link)" / Twitter
 

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Greg Sargent on Twitter: "The truth about Manchin dribbles out:
"Behind the scenes, coal interests were hard at work making the case against the clean energy provisions, and specifically the $320 billion in tax incentives for producers and buyers of wind, solar and nuclear power" (link)" / Twitter


Rep. Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "The US is one of only SIX countries that doesn’t guarantee paid family and medical leave.
Meaning employers can force mothers to return to work immediately after giving birth.
Building Back Better means guaranteeing paid leave for all workers – and I won't stop fighting for it." / Twitter


'Betrayed': House progressives erupt over Manchin Build Back Better opposition
"Today, Senator Manchin has betrayed his commitment not only to the President and Democrats in Congress but most importantly, to the American people," Jayapal, chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, said in a statement. "He routinely touts that he is a man of his word, but he can no longer say that. West Virginians, and the country, see clearly who he is."

Jayapal noted last week that Biden had promised that "he could deliver the 50 senators needed" to make the House-passed version of the legislation into law.
Or in more colorful terms, "stabbed in the back".

Parents worry about the end of monthly child tax credit payments

Coal miners' union urges Manchin to reconsider opposition to Biden plan | TheHill

Maddow Blog on Twitter: "As an example of @RepJayapal 's constructive optimism that @Lawrence was talking about with Rachel, here she explains the "two track process" that is the new strategy for advancing the BBB and its elements going forward. (vid link)" / Twitter

She implied that she's the "optimist in chief of the Rachel Maddow Show."

The two tracks: (1) try to get as much of BBB through the Senate as possible and (2) try to get the President to do what he can with executive action.
 

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"Optimist In Chief" Progressive Rep. Pramila Jayapal: "We're Not Giving Up" On Build Back Better | Video | RealClearPolitics
Has a full transcript.


Opinion | Pramila Jayapal to Joe Manchin: Tell us what you support on Build Back Better - The Washington Post
Jayapal told me she contacted Manchin on Tuesday morning, and asked him to return to the original framework that Biden released in October, which laid out general goals: An expanded child tax credit for one year, ACA subsidies for four years, universal pre-K for six years, half a trillion dollars for climate, and more.

Biden had assured House Democrats that Manchin committed to this framework and that it would win 50 Democratic senators, Jayapal notes. But Manchin now denies that commitment.

So Jayapal told me she asked Manchin to take that framework and line it up next to the BBB that passed the House (which Manchin has rejected). She asked him to say what, specifically, in the House bill doesn’t match up with what Manchin did commit to in the framework (in his discussions with Biden), and to say what specifically in the framework he did not commit to and does not support.

The idea of this exercise, Jayapal said, is to create a baseline for future negotiations. “We need to move forward on as many parts of Build Back Better that we can get,” Jayapal told me.
Good idea. Challenge JM to say what he likes and what he doesn't like.

The other big objector, Kyrsten Sinema, has been very curiously silent. What's happening with her?
 

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Pramila Jayapal on the Fate of the Build Back Better Act | The New Yorker
Just in my conversation with him, there were a number of different messages, some contradictory.

What were those messages?

I’m not going to go into it, but I’ll just say that there were different things that he was saying at different times. It makes it very difficult to come to an agreement. I think that, since the President negotiated the framework with Senator Manchin and got the commitment from him to support that framework, the President’s going to have to go back and come to some agreement and move it very quickly before he can change his mind again. But I think it’s just difficult to negotiate with somebody who changes their mind all the time.
Seems like JM is being very difficult, though it's hard to say whether it is intentional or not.
Look, the thing about these senators is that they each act like they’re the only ones. Senator Manchin wanted certain tax provisions that Senator Sinema didn’t want. And so the ultimate framework was a compromise position that got both of them on board, and the Progressive Caucus endorsed that framework because we thought it was the final negotiation that was done in good faith.
Then "I think the White House made a mistake in splitting the two bills apart, and I think that’s where a lot of this started."

That's an understatement.
 

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Pramila Jayapal Is Not Having Any of Your Nonsense | The Nation
The progressive leader discusses her last call with Joe Manchin, her frustration with the idea that “the Squad” and Bernie Sanders were right and she was wrong, and her determination to get a bill through… somehow.

...
Manchin himself called Jayapal to discuss his decision on Sunday, a conversation she was only willing to share her half of. It did not go well.

...
Also Tuesday, Jayapal reached out to Manchin to try to reopen a dialogue. She asked him to clarify what exactly he supported in the broad “framework” that Democrats thought they had a deal on last summer, and what he opposed. A day later, she has still not heard back.

Reaching out to Manchin is what makes Jayapal a formidable, unpredictable (in a good way) progressive leader. When we spoke yesterday, she genuinely sounded like she was at her wit’s end with him, telling me flatly, “I thought I could rely on his word, and I obviously couldn’t,” adding, “I think he just doesn’t want to do it.” Nevertheless, she then put the ball in his court, calling Manchin and telling The Washington Post’s Greg Sargent, “We all understand that we need 50 votes, and he’s our 50th vote.”

...
People want to put the blame on us, but why did it get to us? Progressive senators decided to let it through! It’s not like the CPC trusted Manchin, and the Squad and Bernie didn’t—we all never trusted Manchin! The question was: What was going to be the most compelling way to keep him at the table? It’s a legitimate perspective, to think holding up BIF would have kept him at the table—but I don’t think it would have. Remember, the BIF was [Senator Kyrsten] Sinema’s bill—it wasn’t Manchin’s. And I think it got him committed, to the president, to the framework. That only happened because the CPC held the line. I believe he was looking for a way to get out of it.
That's weird - claiming that BIF was KS's bill, not JM's.
 

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The Last Word on Twitter: ".@RepJayapal (D-WA) joins @Lawrence to discuss negotiating with Senator Joe Manchin on the Build Back Better Act. Rep. Jayapal says that Sen. Manchin “wants us to understand his position, we certainly want him to understand ours.” (links)" / Twitter
noting
Rep. Jayapal: Joe Manchin wants the President to succeed
She appreciated that JM continues to be a Democrat, despite Mitch McConnell's entreaties, and despite WV voting for Trump by a sizable fraction. She concedes that she and JM are far apart on some issues, however.

Not just progressives, but also frontliners are big supporters of BBB, for what BBB has to offer the voters. Frontliners = those in districts which are borderline Democratic.

Rep. Pramila Jayapal on Twitter: "Voters gave Democrats the House, the Senate, and the White House. So we must use every tool available to deliver long-overdue investments for them. (link)" / Twitter
I agree. The Democratic Party ought to act like a governing party, rather than pleading helplessness like some cowardly hand-wringers or some low-level employees.

Noting
Jayapal lays out 'whole-of-government approach' on Biden agenda | TheHill
 

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It humorous that lefties think this would hurt him back home. Biden is very unpopular in WV.

What is especially "humorous" — for those who find the demise of American democracy to be a source of amusement — is that trighties* think the unpopularity of President Biden among low-information voters reflects on Biden's character or agenda or the Democratic Party agenda more generally. But those thoughts are just delusions: Even relatively intelligent trighties are victims of the GOP-QAnon Bullshit Machine.

Even West Virginians — from the state whose education system ranks #45 among 50 states in one survey and #44 in another — are strong supporters of ACA (though not "Obamacare") and support almost all the Democrats' agenda when presented in non-partisan fashion. (Of course they oppose it when Tucker Carlson appears in a corner of their TV screens making the clownish scowls for which he earns $7 million per year.)

The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election. That "intelligent" Trighties happily embrace those lies, knowing they are lies, should be a matter of deep shame for them. Instead they just find it "humorous" that lefties appear incompetent or too moral to fight back with better lies of their own.

* - I've avoided using "rightie" to label the disgusting supporters of Donald Trump, Alex Jones, etc.. or for those who abet Bullshit proliferation. The term would be an insult to intelligent sincere right-wingers like Liz Cheney or John Kasich. Instead I've devised a portmanteau word combining Trumpie and rightie. An alternate spelling is "trite-y", a spelling which emphasizes trighties' level of intellectual discourse.
 

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Rep. Pramila Jayapal isn't giving up.
Opinion | Pramila Jayapal: Broken promises cannot deter the path to Build Back Better - The Washington Post
To craft a path forward, it’s important to look at how we got here. Last spring, the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC) called for one comprehensive bill to deliver the president’s agenda. But seeking a show of bipartisanship, the White House, at the urging of conservative Democratic senators, split the legislation into two vehicles: what eventually became the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and the Build Back Better Act. The latter contained 85 percent of the president’s domestic agenda.

This decision’s effect was to push Build Back Better — and the communities it would uniquely benefit — to the back of the line. People of color, women and young people helped deliver the White House and Congress to Democrats, but their needs were consistently delayed in search of bipartisanship.
She then restated her two-track strategy, and
We can’t be naive about the difficulty of once again negotiating with someone who has not kept his commitments. But legislation remains the best path for delivering enduring relief. Nor can we underestimate the urgency to act, especially as covid is surging and so many constituencies — seniors, people of color, working and young people — are disillusioned. Democrats must prove that their voices and their votes matter, and that we can produce tangible economic assistance.

This next article seems like it's about an unrelated issue, but I think that it is useful for illustrating the problems with work requirements. Implementing them involves a *lot* of bureaucracy, as does means testing. Low bureaucracy is likely the attraction of universal basic income.

Opinion | Biden is erasing Trump’s Medicaid work requirements policy - The Washington Post
On Thursday, the administration rejected Georgia’s proposal to impose work requirements and premiums on Medicaid recipients. This was effectively the last nail in the coffin of Trump’s zombie attempt to make Medicaid more cumbersome and bureaucratic, in hopes of knocking as many people off health coverage as possible.
The Trump Admin wanted such work requirements and considered some 20 proposals from state gov'ts, most of the Republican-dominated, and accepted 12.
In the most visible case, under Arkansas’s 2018 requirements, nearly 17,000 people lost health coverage. That wasn’t necessarily because they weren’t working. It was mainly because it was so difficult to satisfy all the reporting requirements.

Which is a feature, not a bug, of work requirements. By forcing recipients to prove they’re working and navigate a bureaucratic maze to stay in the program, the state gives itself an excuse to kick off those who make a paperwork mistake or miss a reporting deadline.
noting
Medicaid Work Requirements — Results from the First Year in Arkansas | NEJM

The article then discussed how that is contrary to Trump's campaign promises, but that's a separate issue.
 

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.

That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
 

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.
That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
Hoax???

I think that if the full details became known, right-wingers would say that that shows what a great ally Russia is.
 

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.

That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
I'd repost the report that showed a great amount of collusion but since you seem to ignore anything that disagrees with your feelings it would be a waste of time. You are a perfect example of a modern republican.
 

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.

That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
Five years and counting. Shifty Schiff is still banging on about it.
 

ZiprHead

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.

That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
Five years and counting. Shifty Schiff is still banging on about it.
I'd repost the report that showed a great amount of collusion but since you seem to ignore anything that disagrees with your feelings it would be a waste of time. You are a perfect example of a modern republican.
 

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.

That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
Pre-election, the very instantaneous and sharp pro-Russia turn in the Trump campaign. Manafort providing polling data to Kremlin linked Ukrainians. The Kremlin linked Russians meeting in secret with the senior Trump campaign officials. Intel on Russians picking up on Trump campaign connections.

And post-election, all the lying about Russia, the Trump Admin almost instantly trying to give Russia back their spy HQ building in Maryland, the secret meeting Trump had with Putin, and the diplomatic maneuvers providing Putin the ability to exit from agreements without needing to expend any political capital to do so.

Yeah... "nothing" ever came up.
 

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The big divide between the "lefties" and the "trighties" is that one side supports truth and the other has no political platform except telling whatever lies serve to abet their election.

That’s funny. After five years of the Russia collusion hoax, that’s funny.
Five years and counting. Shifty Schiff is still banging on about it.
I'd repost the report that showed a great amount of collusion but since you seem to ignore anything that disagrees with your feelings it would be a waste of time. You are a perfect example of a modern republican.
It's amazing how so many Trumpers still believe that Manafort, Flynn etc pled guilty over nothing more than a "hoax". And when I say amazing I mean pathetically predictable.
 

Trausti

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It's amazing how so many Trumpers still believe that Manafort, Flynn etc pled guilty over nothing more than a "hoax". And when I say amazing I mean pathetically predictable.
Manafort pled guilty to bank fraud. Flynn plead guilty to false statements to the FBI during his interview - and the DOJ moved to dismiss. The only purpose of the Flynn interview was a perjury trap, as the FBI already had his telephone transcript and never charged him under the Logan Act. Ya really to got stop watching MSNBC.
 

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It's amazing how so many Trumpers still believe that Manafort, Flynn etc pled guilty over nothing more than a "hoax". And when I say amazing I mean pathetically predictable.
Manafort pled guilty to bank fraud. Flynn plead guilty to false statements to the FBI during his interview - and the DOJ moved to dismiss. The only purpose of the Flynn interview was a perjury trap, as the FBI already had his telephone transcript and never charged him under the Logan Act. Ya really to got stop watching MSNBC.
There's no such thing as a perjury trap.
 

Trausti

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It's amazing how so many Trumpers still believe that Manafort, Flynn etc pled guilty over nothing more than a "hoax". And when I say amazing I mean pathetically predictable.
Manafort pled guilty to bank fraud. Flynn plead guilty to false statements to the FBI during his interview - and the DOJ moved to dismiss. The only purpose of the Flynn interview was a perjury trap, as the FBI already had his telephone transcript and never charged him under the Logan Act. Ya really to got stop watching MSNBC.
There's no such thing as a perjury trap.
Hah!
 

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Manafort providing polling data to Kremlin linked Ukrainians.
Shock! Horror! Could you image if Don, Jr., had a $$$ job on the board a Ukrainian energy conglomerate? Shock! Horror!
Hunter Biden (among others) was given a comfy window dressing position at Burisma that required almost no work, in order to provide a better image to the company.

Manafort gave Ukrainians linked to the Kremlin polling data for Trump's campaign.

One of these things furthers the narrative of passive Russian involvement in the US Election to benefit Trump. The other, unethical (but generally harmless) cushy job position due to Dad's position that has nothing to do with the 2020 election.
 
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