Professors in Poverty

[laughing dog]

What are you babbling about? This society cannot even agree on what "education" should mean, let alone measure what is learned. Any "measure" under such conditions will give incomplete or misleading information.

I realize that there has been a sea change in the view of education. For some reason people today believe that their children are learning less than they did. Now has been true for generations upon generations, yet our current generation is really the first one to somehow jump to the conclusion that education is now a commodity to be judged like apples or car repair. I suppose that is proof positive that the education system has failed society.

yep people are starting to question that belief that if you spend other people's money that want to make sure theat you are spending on something that returns value and not be an assumption.

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

 

[coloradoatheist]

yep people are starting to question that belief that if you spend other people's money that want to make sure theat you are spending on something that returns value and not be an assumption.

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

 

[laughing dog]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

 

[coloradoatheist]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

Which part. Sanders plan to make higher education free for everyone, his plan to put in large other programs, or questioning whether or not the state should spend more money to pay adjunct professors more?

 

[laughing dog]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

Which part. Sanders plan to make higher education free for everyone, his plan to put in large other programs, or questioning whether or not the state should spend more money to pay adjunct professors more?

None of that. It is these items
People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

 

[coloradoatheist]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

Which part. Sanders plan to make higher education free for everyone, his plan to put in large other programs, or questioning whether or not the state should spend more money to pay adjunct professors more?

None of that. It is these items
People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

So we can't actually in any way what we are spending the money on when it goes to Universities? Should we at least measure the number of kegs drunk? Hey education is great so let's spend money on it. Even you would have limitations on it. Do you think everyone that wants to have a private tutor/teacher should have one? Can everyone go to school for their whole life? Can we have any major that anyone wants?

 

[laughing dog]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

Which part. Sanders plan to make higher education free for everyone, his plan to put in large other programs, or questioning whether or not the state should spend more money to pay adjunct professors more?

None of that. It is these items
People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

So we can't actually in any way what we are spending the money on when it goes to Universities? Should we at least measure the number of kegs drunk? Hey education is great so let's spend money on it. Even you would have limitations on it. Do you think everyone that wants to have a private tutor/teacher should have one? Can everyone go to school for their whole life? Can we have any major that anyone wants?

No one is making any argument about people feeling good except you. No one is talking about subsidizing drunken sex orgies for 4 years except you. Perhaps you should discuss these issues with yourself because it seems to me that you are the only person who understands what you are writing about.

 

[Bronzeage]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

Which part. Sanders plan to make higher education free for everyone, his plan to put in large other programs, or questioning whether or not the state should spend more money to pay adjunct professors more?

None of that. It is these items
People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

It's always good to base policy decisions on stereotypes.

 

[coloradoatheist]

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

No it's not Sanders fault, he just wants to spend something like $10-20 trillion dollars on new programs

The point of this thread was hey adjunct professors are making peanuts so we need to pay them more. The only reason for paying them more is so we feel good about this people. People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

I honestly have no idea what drives such delusional straw men.

Which part. Sanders plan to make higher education free for everyone, his plan to put in large other programs, or questioning whether or not the state should spend more money to pay adjunct professors more?

None of that. It is these items
People are tired of saying let's just spend money so someone feels good.

We should not be paying for college and universities just so we can for people drink and get laid for 4 years.

So we can't actually in any way what we are spending the money on when it goes to Universities? Should we at least measure the number of kegs drunk? Hey education is great so let's spend money on it. Even you would have limitations on it. Do you think everyone that wants to have a private tutor/teacher should have one? Can everyone go to school for their whole life? Can we have any major that anyone wants?

No one is making any argument about people feeling good except you. No one is talking about subsidizing drunken sex orgies for 4 years except you. Perhaps you should discuss these issues with yourself because it seems to me that you are the only person who understands what you are writing about.

There is several tangents here, but let's stick to the OP

Colleges can hire adjunct professors, grad students, or full professors for the classes. The argument is that adjunct professors are underpaid because people feel they should be paid more even though there are people who want that job instead of going out into the work environment. So what do we get for paying the adjunct professors more?

 

[Achwienichtig]

There is several tangents here, but let's stick to the OP

Colleges can hire adjunct professors, grad students, or full professors for the classes. The argument is that adjunct professors are underpaid because people feel they should be paid more even though there are people who want that job instead of going out into the work environment. So what do we get for paying the adjunct professors more?

No. Adjuncts are not underpaid just because people "feel" they are underpaid. They are underpaid because their work and credentials are worth more than they are getting paid. I have no objection to a professor earning more than an adjunct. What is unacceptable is hiring an adjunct at an unfair wage.

 

[laughing dog]

There is several tangents here, but let's stick to the OP

Colleges can hire adjunct professors, grad students, or full professors for the classes. The argument is that adjunct professors are underpaid because people feel they should be paid more even though there are people who want that job instead of going out into the work environment. So what do we get for paying the adjunct professors more?

First, the adjuncts are out in the work environment - teaching is work. Second, many adjuncts either have jobs in other fields or cobble together a number of adjunct positions in order to make ends meet.
While there are good reasons in specific instances for adjunct professorships, the majority of them in my experience, are done simply to save on expenses and quality of experience. The adjuncts get less support and less time to do their jobs as teachers. In these cases, it is a disservice to the students (who may or may not even realize the quality of their education is suffering) and to the adjuncts. Typically, the savings on payroll for instruction is not recycled into instruction but goes to pay for non-instructional activities or compensation to non-instructional staff.
Paying adjuncts more makes universities less likely to use as many. In addition, as all free-market adherents understand (like Wal Mart), paying people more tends to get better results.

 

[Trausti]

There is several tangents here, but let's stick to the OP

Colleges can hire adjunct professors, grad students, or full professors for the classes. The argument is that adjunct professors are underpaid because people feel they should be paid more even though there are people who want that job instead of going out into the work environment. So what do we get for paying the adjunct professors more?

No. Adjuncts are not underpaid just because people "feel" they are underpaid. They are underpaid because their work and credentials are worth more than they are getting paid. I have no objection to a professor earning more than an adjunct. What is unacceptable is hiring an adjunct at an unfair wage.

Sez who? Sprinkling your CV with this or that credential doesn't mean you're worth more. It's what you can do that matters. And the market for babysitting college students is what it is. Or should college students be made to pay more for the service?

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Hopefully this educational video will convince many wannabe adjunct professors to pursue a livelihood that society values more than adjunct professoring.

Society values adjuncts, legislatures and universities don't. So laws and regulations are passed and initiated that allow for poor wages and no benefits.

This. It has nothing to do what society values, but what the employers are willing to pay.

 

[Achwienichtig]

No. Adjuncts are not underpaid just because people "feel" they are underpaid. They are underpaid because their work and credentials are worth more than they are getting paid. I have no objection to a professor earning more than an adjunct. What is unacceptable is hiring an adjunct at an unfair wage.

Sez who? Sprinkling your CV with this or that credential doesn't mean you're worth more. It's what you can do that matters. And the market for babysitting college students is what it is. Or should college students be made to pay more for the service?

Strawman. I didn't say their credentials alone. I said their work and credentials. Of course what you do with your credentials matters. And if what you do is teach, then you deserve a living wage.

Just because you can pay next to nothing for an adjunct, that doesn't mean you should pay next to nothing.

 

[barbos]

Sez who? Sprinkling your CV with this or that credential doesn't mean you're worth more. It's what you can do that matters. And the market for babysitting college students is what it is. Or should college students be made to pay more for the service?

Strawman. I didn't say their credentials alone. I said their work and credentials. Of course what you do with your credentials matters. And if what you do is teach, then you deserve a living wage.

Just because you can pay next to nothing for an adjunct, that doesn't mean you should pay next to nothing.

True, but that's what always happens. Lower "caste" are paid so little because they are told that with enough work and good behavior they will get to higher caste and be paid adequately.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Sez who? Sprinkling your CV with this or that credential doesn't mean you're worth more. It's what you can do that matters. And the market for babysitting college students is what it is. Or should college students be made to pay more for the service?

Strawman. I didn't say their credentials alone. I said their work and credentials. Of course what you do with your credentials matters. And if what you do is teach, then you deserve a living wage.

Just because you can pay next to nothing for an adjunct, that doesn't mean you should pay next to nothing.

I guess the one group that does value adjunct professors, universities, doesn't value them. You could always hire one on your own if its a value to you.

- - - Updated - - -

Society values adjuncts, legislatures and universities don't. So laws and regulations are passed and initiated that allow for poor wages and no benefits.

This. It has nothing to do what society values, but what the employers are willing to pay.

The only place adjunct professors are hired is at universities and they don't value them very much.

 

[beero1000]

Strawman. I didn't say their credentials alone. I said their work and credentials. Of course what you do with your credentials matters. And if what you do is teach, then you deserve a living wage.

Just because you can pay next to nothing for an adjunct, that doesn't mean you should pay next to nothing.

I guess the one group that does value adjunct professors, universities, doesn't value them. You could always hire one on your own if its a value to you.

- - - Updated - - -

Society values adjuncts, legislatures and universities don't. So laws and regulations are passed and initiated that allow for poor wages and no benefits.

This. It has nothing to do what society values, but what the employers are willing to pay.

The only place adjunct professors are hired is at universities and they don't value them very much.

Administration is responsible for the hiring of adjuncts. Faculty would much rather be hiring on the tenure-track.

Of course, administration positions are up and administration salaries are up - so the administration needs to save money somewhere... hire cheapo adjuncts and problem solved!

 

[Achwienichtig]

Strawman. I didn't say their credentials alone. I said their work and credentials. Of course what you do with your credentials matters. And if what you do is teach, then you deserve a living wage.

Just because you can pay next to nothing for an adjunct, that doesn't mean you should pay next to nothing.

I guess the one group that does value adjunct professors, universities, doesn't value them. You could always hire one on your own if its a value to you.

It's the administrations at these universities that don't value adjuncts. In my experience, adjuncts are highly valued within the faculty. I happen to be an adjunct at a prep school, so I know a thing or two about this. It's the same thing.

 

[JonA]

Is that good or bad?

Good for administrators, probably bad for students and faculty.

Why do you say that?

Are computers bad for the students? The faculty?

Access to online databases?

Jon

 

[Axulus]

yep people are starting to question that belief that if you spend other people's money that want to make sure theat you are spending on something that returns value and not be an assumption.

If you cannot agree on what constitutes value nor even measure it, then those questions seem rather misplaced and rather hypocritical since the very same questions are not asked about the criminal justice system or prisons. From what I can tell, a significant portion of this movement is driven by butthurt ignoramuses who are bothered by people on "their payroll" who question their beliefs and payrolls. At least these jokers should be honest and simply say we are not going to fund education because we don't want to and leave it at that instead of asking for time, effort and resources to be wasted on generating pointless measures that will be ignored anyways.

Especially now that Sanders wants government to spend money all over the place.

Yeah, this ignorance first movement is all Sanders' fault.

I think it is a legitimate to question whether we need to spend $12,000 per child per year on public education or $5,000 like we used to and what additional value is being obtained by spending the $12k vs. $5k.

If you are saying we don't know what additional value is being obtained, there is no way to measure it, then why is $12k the right amount and not $5k?