Progressives betray voters and back a Zionist speaker

[RVonse]

This thread was created by someone who loves listening to anti-Semitic white supremacists (Tucker Carlson etc).

I'm not anti-Semitic and neither is Tucker Carlson. Nor is anyone against Israel as a US ally.

What we are against is being Israel's cuckold and Washington being controlled and overrun by foreign influence.

We do not live in a Democracy if a foreign government tells our leaders what to do.

 

[bilby]

If you can't see the big difference between a war in which the US was a direct participant, firing missiles and dropping bombs from day one, and one in which she was a mere bystander who may perhaps be dragged in at some future point, then I don't know how anyone can help you.

They are both proxy wars.

No they fucking aren't. Iran was attacked directly by the US military. That's not a proxy war, it's a fucking WAR.

The only difference in the case of Ukraine the US is financing that war

Not to a significant degree. Most US military hardware going to Ukraine is being paid for by Europeans. The US isn't financing that war, it is profiting from it.

so that Ukraine can die against Russia

Ukraine doesn't appear to be dying right now.

but in the case of Iran, US is cuckolded by Israel as its proxy for bombing Iran for them.

Both the US and Israel are direct beligerents. Neither is a proxy for anyone.

More to the point, both wars involve US tax money being used to kill people.

That's not 'more to the point'; It's irrelevant to the point.

 

[Derec]

Also worth noting that one can be anti-Zionist without being anti- Semitic. I’m quite concerned that this is being very muddled.

Zionism means supporting the right of Israel to exist. Anti-zionists want to abolish Israel and replace it with yet another Arab, Muslim state.

While there can be anti-zionists who are not anti-semites, I am hard-pressed to come up with too many possible scenarios where this would apply. One would be the ultra-orthodox Jews who think that Israel should be reestablished as a Messianic kingdom and not as a product human effort, e.g. by secular Jews who bought up land in the Ottoman Empire, and then defended the nascent state from onslaught by Arab armies.

However, I am hard-pressed to think of another reason to be anti-zionist but not anti-semitic. Surely, if it's ok for there to be almost a dozen Arab states and even more Muslim states, it should be ok for there to be a single Jewish state to serve as the homeland for Jewish people.

 

[Derec]

I've always found it pretty easy.
"I'm against genocide" - Anti-Zionism
"I'm just asking questions" - Anti-Semitic

Neither of these makes any sense. Especially since the only genocide there is the attempted genocide by Hamas and their allies (Islamic Jihad, PFLP within Palestinian territories, and Houthis, Hezbollah and the Tehran Theocracy without) against Israel.

 

[Derec]

I suspect being against the concept of Greater Israel for starters.

Not just "greater Israel", whatever that means. Anti-zionists are against existence of Israel whatsoever.

 

[Derec]

You might need some context then. This thread was created by someone who loves listening to anti-Semitic white supremacists (Tucker Carlson etc).

While they are both antisemitic, Jimmy Dore (whose video RVonse actually posted) is on the far left, while Tucker is on the far right. Any similarity between the two is just a testament to the Horseshoe Theory.

It's a bad faith argument right from the get go (and not the first or even hundredth time RVonse has done this BTW). Toni pointed out (rightly IMO) that in this current climate the media almost always conflate anti-Zionism/criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic and went on to clarify there is a distinction.

There is a big difference between criticizing the government of Israel vs. anti-zionism. Anti-zionism has become a figleaf for anti-semites to pretend that they are not antisemitic. But I see very little difference in practice for vast majority of these "anti-zionists".

Tigers! is of the opinion Israel can do no wrong and that Gaza can't do anything right.

While Israel has made mistakes in recent history, one'd be hard pressed to find any instance where Hamas-run Gaza did anything right. The decision to launch a war of aggression against Israel is certainly not doing something right. Neither is shooting rockets at Israeli cities, etc.

 

[Derec]

No they fucking aren't. Iran was attacked directly by the US military. That's not a proxy war, it's a fucking WAR.

The Shiitist Entity has been attacking the US since 1979. We should have put an end to it as soon as they took over our embassy.

 

[bilby]

No they fucking aren't. Iran was attacked directly by the US military. That's not a proxy war, it's a fucking WAR.

The Shiitist Entity has been attacking the US since 1979. We should have put an end to it as soon as they took over our embassy.

I have no idea why you posted that as a reply to me; It is a complete non-sequitur.