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Protests

Not true at all. That principles means that no person or party has any right or "freedom" to rule without consent, or to limit any speech or the exchange of ideas that would prompt the majority to oust that persona or party from any public office, and use their voice of consent to alter existing laws.
Our ability to alter existing laws and oust officials from positions of power is limited by the constraints they place on us through the laws themselves, not to mention the cultural and ideological barriers they erect to preserve "civility" above all else. All that would be necessary to ensure that the powerful few who control most of the wealth and all of the government can do whatever they want without fear of serious repercussions is this:

1. Convince everyone that they should never protest in a way that causes inconvenience or disruption to one another (which inadvertently protects the interests of those who depend on our showing up to work every day).
2. Make sure the public infrastructure is so interconnected and self-referential that literally ANY protest with the potential to bring about meaningful change is encapsulated within that forbidden category.

I would argue that, indeed, this is exactly what has happened in America. Unions have diminished greatly in number and power, and media outrage is aimed at instances of impoliteness/impropriety rather than injustice. Our obsession is with gaffes, insults, slurs, and (above all else) the absolute sanctity of private property. Beneath all that in importance, way down the list, it is begrudgingly accepted that a bunch of people standing around holding signs should be allowed (but only if some of the signs are witty enough to post on social media).

Why are we like this? It's because we have swallowed the negative conception of freedom as an individual's war against everybody else who would deny or infringe it, and abandoned the original social conception of freedom as something only made possible through cooperation with others, where each person supports the aspirations and creativity of everybody else. In this light, it makes sense to cause individual upsets in pursuit of greater independence for everyone, in solidarity and mutual concern. It makes sense to say that as long as anybody in this society is a slave or a prisoner, nobody is free, even if by the other definition of freedom many people are apparently not directly inconvenienced by it.

When freedom is something that depends only on not stepping on somebody else's toes, joining a protest against something that "doesn't affect me" becomes, at best, something I might do if I'm in a generous mood (but if it makes me late for work I'll raise hell). And this is by design! We are taught through all kinds of marketing, entertainment, history, and direct pronouncements by state officials that liberty means we all do what we want unless it prevents someone else from doing what they want, and everything else flows naturally from that. It's a great propaganda tool for ensuring that others are not seen as fellow citizens with shared goals, but with suspicion, as competitors and potential threats.

The antidote to this tendency (which was almost uniquely American until a very short time ago) is a return to the ideas of the French Revolution that were vociferously rejected by conservatives at the time: "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité". Freedom, equality, and fraternity, where each element depends on the other two for its existence and none are desirable in isolation. What are the options for a society that has embraced "freedom" (in the strange antagonistic sense espoused by American libertarians) but treats equality and fraternity as merely nice-to-haves, or worse yet, subversive tendencies of an emerging authoritarian undercurrent?

It is steadfast commitment to this principle that is the only thing that guarantees change in the best interests of the majority, while protecting the rights of the minority to retain their basic liberties, even when (as with slavery) the interests of the majority would benefit by infringing on those rights.
Slavery would not have been abolished if the slaves themselves had not contributed to their own liberation in myriad ways, all of which caused untold property damage, held up productivity, and took lives across the board. Abolition was not something that Lincoln and other nice whites decided to do for the slaves one day. It was made possible through violent, disruptive struggle without regard for the comfort of others, even those who were not personally responsible for the institution of slavery nor held slaves.

Such a principles never eliminates the ability to promote change, only the use of certain methods that are not neccessary and which, while they may force quicker change by use of force and coercion against the liberties of others, will have long term harmful effects upon all forms of progress which depend upon holding basic individual rights, such as speech, association, and movement, as the most sacred principles guiding both moral and legal sanctions.
Hopelessly naive and exactly the kind of interpretation of human potential that is duly expected of (and enforced upon) us by those in power. The missing ingredient, again, is the notion that no individual rights exist without being enjoyed by all and fostered through cooperative action, each dependent upon each and upon the whole, so that when a major disruption in the liberty of some is what it takes to reverse an even greater disruption in the liberty of the many, the focus is properly placed on the greater disruption and not the lesser one. That's only possible if you give up the individual, negative conception of freedom as the basis from which all other things flow, and the fact that nothing of substance has changed in America for so many people as we have become more and more individualistic in our conceptions of liberty is evidence that the message is working as intended.
 
No, that’s not the point. At least it’s not the point of protesting.
Yes, it is.
The point of protesting is to communicate a dissatisfaction; furthermore, one doesn’t have to be annoying or disturbing to do it.
It kind of does. I can communicate any dissatisfaction through free speech. A protest kind of requires that I get your attention in some way. Writing an op-ed or a book or creating a documentary are easily ignored by those who probably most need to hear the message itself.
Thing is, many people often have no desire to simply communicate their grievances. They could, and they could do that by simply protesting, but it’s not their desire to simply exercise their right to free speech. They want more. They want to exact change. Protesting nor freedom of speech is what fundamentally causes the change they really seek—maybe it’s the annoyance and disturbance, but that’s not entailed by merely protesting. One must protest AND (apparently) be a menace to society who has repeatedly heard the messages.

The freedom to speak does not give one the right to annoy or disturb, no more that than does it give one the right to kill and block traffic.
What annoys and disturbs you is up to you (not the protestor). I agree that protestors cannot get away with crimes like murder and false imprisonment.

The reason protestors (that annoy and disturb) aren’t fined or locked up isn’t because of the first amendment but because of lax or nonexistent laws regarding being annoyed or disturbed.

People have the right to say what they wish, but there are restrictions. You can’t openly praise the Flying Spaghetti Monster every two minutes in math class. You may not walk through a campground at two in the morning screaming the The Japs Are Coming.

Let me put it another way. The freedom of speech is a necessary condition for annoying people, but it’s not a sufficient condition. Certain annoyances and disturbances that may be forbidden isn’t a violation but an exception to our freedom afforded to us.

If I write an opinion piece on the treatment of black men and kids by police in the US, I'm practicing free speech - few people read it, no one cares, life goes on. If I kneel during the national anthem in protest of the same - people lose their shit and start creating rules against it. Admit it, it annoys you. You are disturbed by it. (If not you personally, enough people were disturbed by it in the NFL - fans and owners alike). So tell me, using your very subjective logic, why I should NOT be allowed to protest in this way?

aa
 
Ron and bip, I stand corrected. Your view is much more black and white than I gave you credit for. My apologies.
 
I'd like to add my two cents as someone who did quite a big of protesting back in the day when protests were extremely common. Firs to all, protests aren't the same as riots. When a protest degenerates into a riot, the purpose of the protest is usually lost. I don't think that protests are every very effective unless they are constant or done on a regular basis. That is why some of the more contemporary protests haven't made any substantial gains, imo.

If it weren't for protests, women may never have gotten the vote, but no I'm not the old.

If it weren't for protests during the civil rights movements of the early 60s, schools might have remained racially segregated etc. in the south for a much longer time. Despite what some think, schools in the south are now more integrated than schools in the north, as fas as I can tell. I was too young to take part in the civil rights movement.

But, I did protest the Viet Nam War, the draft and the voting age. It's hard to say if it was the protests or the fact that the draft kept more people affected by that war. Almost everyone had a friend or family member who was drafted during the VN War, so even people who first supported the war, often changed their opinion of that war. My own father was one who later told me that he appreciated my generation's protests.

So, our protests most likely did help end the draft, but that had consequences. Because so few people are now involved in wars, wars go on much longer. At least I think that's a big factor. I'm not suggesting we should bring back the draft, but a volunteer army does mean that fewer people give a damn about the wars we get involved in and the damage that they do.

Baby boomers are often blamed for just about everything under the sun, but many younger folks don't even know that it was baby boomers that helped lower the voting age as a result of our protests. Did anyone else here chant the phrase, "old enough to die, but not old enough to vote"? Many of my peers were sent to war at the age of 18, but we couldn't even vote until we were 21. I have no doubt that our protests helped accomplish lowering the voting age to 18. You're welcome.

Protests are sometimes inconvenient to those who don't participate in them. That's not a bad thing as it gets the protesters a lot more needed attention. But, the protests against the war that I attended were fully supported by the local police. They closed down roads so we could march through town for a couple of hours, to be sure that we were safe. Contrary to what some believe, there were many returning vets who marched with us. We welcomed them and were happy to have them among our ranks.

We protested a lot of other things that were less important. We protested mandatory class attendance at the college I attended in the late 60s. I have only foggy memories of it, but we won. I was happy about that because I had some very boring teachers and I usually learned better on my own, so while I did attend my science and math classes and some of my English classes, I frequently skipped the classes that I didn't like. I think it's fair not to require attendance if one is paying tuition and can pass tests and write papers on their own. But, it wasn't the most important thing to protest. Btw, the nursing program that I attended later was all self study other than clinical. I loved that.

I was living on the edge of the ghetto in Trenton, NJ, during the so called race riots in the early 70s. These actions may have started off as protests against police brutality, but they quickly deteriorated into riots. I don't remember if anything much was accomplished by those demonstrations. I was too busy tending to my new baby at the time.

Regardless, protests are a very important part of making progress, when those in power refuse to recognize the need for change. But, as I said before, in order to be effective, they must be ongoing, and peaceful. Having a big march a couple of times a year, is probably worthless.
 
Our ability to alter existing laws and oust officials from positions of power is limited by the constraints they place on us through the laws themselves, not to mention the cultural and ideological barriers they erect to preserve "civility" above all else.

All that would be necessary to ensure that the powerful few who control most of the wealth and all of the government can do whatever they want without fear of serious repercussions is this:

1. Convince everyone that they should never protest in a way that causes inconvenience or disruption to one another (which inadvertently protects the interests of those who depend on our showing up to work every day).

No one has argued that protests should not cause any inconvenience.

2. Make sure the public infrastructure is so interconnected and self-referential that literally ANY protest with the potential to bring about meaningful change is encapsulated within that forbidden category.

I would argue that, indeed, this is exactly what has happened in America. Unions have diminished greatly in number and power, and media outrage is aimed at instances of impoliteness/impropriety rather than injustice. Our obsession is with gaffes, insults, slurs, and (above all else) the absolute sanctity of private property. Beneath all that in importance, way down the list, it is begrudgingly accepted that a bunch of people standing around holding signs should be allowed (but only if some of the signs are witty enough to post on social media).

Why are we like this? It's because we have swallowed the negative conception of freedom as an individual's war against everybody else who would deny or infringe it, and abandoned the original social conception of freedom as something only made possible through cooperation with others, where each person supports the aspirations and creativity of everybody else. In this light, it makes sense to cause individual upsets in pursuit of greater independence for everyone, in solidarity and mutual concern. It makes sense to say that as long as anybody in this society is a slave or a prisoner, nobody is free, even if by the other definition of freedom many people are apparently not directly inconvenienced by it.

When freedom is something that depends only on not stepping on somebody else's toes, joining a protest against something that "doesn't affect me" becomes, at best, something I might do if I'm in a generous mood (but if it makes me late for work I'll raise hell). And this is by design! We are taught through all kinds of marketing, entertainment, history, and direct pronouncements by state officials that liberty means we all do what we want unless it prevents someone else from doing what they want, and everything else flows naturally from that. It's a great propaganda tool for ensuring that others are not seen as fellow citizens with shared goals, but with suspicion, as competitors and potential threats.

The antidote to this tendency (which was almost uniquely American until a very short time ago) is a return to the ideas of the French Revolution that were vociferously rejected by conservatives at the time: "Liberté, Egalité, Fraternité". Freedom, equality, and fraternity, where each element depends on the other two for its existence and none are desirable in isolation. What are the options for a society that has embraced "freedom" (in the strange antagonistic sense espoused by American libertarians) but treats equality and fraternity as merely nice-to-haves, or worse yet, subversive tendencies of an emerging authoritarian undercurrent?

None of this follows from anything I said, and only follows if you allow the whatever the current law is to define what fundamental basic rights people should have, or "civility" means. Nothing I have said presumes nor allows that. Those are matters of moral conscience and thus they are outside of legal statute.

We are not debating whether people should always obey current laws, but whether they should violate a more basic foundational principle of ethics on which all non-authoritarian ethics are built, namely that people have a moral right to govern their own body and speech, which as a matter of internal logical limits, means that it is unethical to use one's speech or one's body in a manner to directly limits other's control of their speech or body.

There is no morally defensible protest that can disagree with this principle and every injustice you whose protest you would support is ultimately an injustice b/c such principles were violated. This principle inherently means that only laws that respect this principle should be obeyed. Thus, not only allowing but encouraging civil disobedience against such laws or practices.

But disobeying unjust practices does not require engaging in unjust violations of other people's basic rights. Such tactics are lazy and impatiently short sighted in the inherently long term damage they do to all by undermining all rights by undermining the principle which is their only source outside of relying upon the law to decide what rights should be.


Slavery would not have been abolished if the slaves themselves had not contributed to their own liberation in myriad ways, all of which caused untold property damage, held up productivity, and took lives across the board. Abolition was not something that Lincoln and other nice whites decided to do for the slaves one day. It was made possible through violent, disruptive struggle without regard for the comfort of others, even those who were not personally responsible for the institution of slavery nor held slaves.

First of all, it is total bullshit that the abolition of slavery required slave revolt. Countless slaves around the world have been freed without them doing or able to do anything about their condition. Slaves existed since pre-civilization and the practice was not ended on any large scale, despite those slaves trying to end it. There was nothing unique about the character and self determination of US slaves over other slaves that made them the first to finally end it.
Whether US slaves happened to play a role in bringing an end to their own slavery is besides the point that their role was not neccessary and was minor to the more general principled ending of the practice. That occurred because of the long term effects of Enlightenment principles which included ideas about individual rights of person's and the need for such principles to applied with reason rather than arbitrary authority, which would inherently and eventually did lead to their legal application to all humans.
It was a cultural ethical shift that occurred because people gained more and more respect for the principle of personal liberty as the foundation of ethics. The US slaves were also impacted by this cultural shift. While nearly all past slaves objected to their own enslavement, they did not as strongly object to slavery in general on principled grounds. The increased respect for individual rights changed that and led more slaves to feel a sense of moral righteousness and opposition to the entire idea of slavery that emboldened their revolt and opposition beyond trying to end their personal hardships.

Secondly, any long term positive impact of the slave revolts on reducing injustices more generally were only due to actions that protected their own rights with damage to property, production, and other persons as incidental and directly tied to their enslavement. There is no violation of the principle of individual rights if the harm or inconvenience to others is an incidental effect of one preventing violations of their own rights, such as death of those trying to keep them enslaved or disruptions to production due to disruptions to enslavement. Those "harmed" do not have the right to profit from violating other's rights. If simply exercising one's own basic rights causes harm to others, then that would inherently means that those others were the one's violating those people's rights.

It is like if you swing at me and I grab and break your arm in self defense. The direct connection between the act being truly neccessary to protect my own rights means that the act promotes rather than undermines the principle of protecting individual rights. In contrast, if I were to grab your daughter and threaten her life if you try to punch me, then I have violated her rights as much as you were trying to violate mine, and the principle of individual rights is doubly undermined rather than protected.
Decent and reasonable people make a huge ethical distinction between these two situations, just as they do between "protesters" who are controlling their own body and speech (such as not working and speaking out about their conditions) versus those who violated the basic rights of bystanders to coerce politicians into intervening on their behalf (e.g., blocking traffic).

Likewise, if you refuse to work for an employer and harm his production, that is just exercising your right to control your body. However, if you try to get others to support your cause by drawing attention via preventing other people from getting to their jobs, then you have violated their rights as much as your employer would had they used goons to threaten you with violence to get back to work. That is a form of "protest" that is no longer exercising your rights of action and speech, and becomes a violation of others action and speech, which undermines the very principle and makes greater violations of it more probable for all in the future. Thus, it is not an acceptable method, not to mention cannot be reasonable argued to be neccessary in order for you to protect your basic rights over your own body and speech.



Such a principles never eliminates the ability to promote change, only the use of certain methods that are not neccessary and which, while they may force quicker change by use of force and coercion against the liberties of others, will have long term harmful effects upon all forms of progress which depend upon holding basic individual rights, such as speech, association, and movement, as the most sacred principles guiding both moral and legal sanctions.
Hopelessly naive and exactly the kind of interpretation of human potential that is duly expected of (and enforced upon) us by those in power. The missing ingredient, again, is the notion that no individual rights exist without being enjoyed by all

Nonsense. You are the one missing that point. You are advocating violating the rights of some to promote the rights of others, which inherently means the rights of all are not being respected and the principle of rights is being disregarded whenever it is politically expedient.
It is logically impossible to promote the idea that all should have similar basic rights by violating those rights for some.
IF you are harming people as a byproduct of simply engaging in acts neccessary to exercise your own rights, then their rights are not violated b/c they do not extend in any way that would prevent your rights. If you are harming others as an unnecessary tactic (which applies to nearly every method in question, like blocking traffic or shouting down other's speech) to draw attention to your concerns, then you are violating not only their rights, but the idea that it is valuable to protect the rights of all and that it is wrong to violate some people's rights for the gain of others, even the majority.

That's only possible if you give up the individual, negative conception of freedom as the basis from which all other things flow, and the fact that nothing of substance has changed in America for so many people as we have become more and more individualistic in our conceptions of liberty is evidence that the message is working as intended

The very concept of rights makes no sense except in relation to the individual. Groups exists only as a mental abstraction. In reality, what exists are individuals onto which various manufactured mental categories can be placed. The whole notion of something having rights is that it must be free to act in accord with it's own thoughts and will. There is not such thing a group mind or group will. Minds and will's are products of brains, which exist within individual skulls and vary independently, even when they happen to arrive at the same state. Thus, all rights and ethics do flow from the protection of things that have a will (which are individuals) to exercise that will over the body from which it is created.

These enlightenment conceptions are the primary source of all the exponential moral and political progress in the last few centuries, including ending slavery as an institution, the civil right's acts, women's suffrage, gay rights, etc..
The concept of individual rights is by far the most essential and neccessary ingredient in all of that improvement to the lives of almost all who live in cultures where this principle has gained acceptance, while cultures where the collective takes priority over individual rights have generally lagged well behind in granting basic rights to all and only achieve "equality" by granting rights to none but the few with political power.
 
Ron and bip, I stand corrected. Your view is much more black and white than I gave you credit for. My apologies.

Your vacuous and non-existent contribution to the discussion is exactly what I give you credit for and on par with all your posts.
 
So tell me, using your very subjective logic, why I should NOT be allowed to protest in this way?

If I am against your message yet welcome you to protest (A),
then that’s a hell of a lot different than
if I am against your message therefore welcome you not (B).

If I am against your message yet welcome you to protest (A),
and have no qualms with HOW the message is delivered (A1),
then that’s a quite a lot different than
If I am against your message yet welcome you to protest (A),
and DO have qualms with HOW the message is delivered (A2)

This thread is (partly) about those being A2 yet treated like B

If I am against HOW you deliver your message yet favor your right to deliver it, don’t say that I am against free speech, for that is untrue.

As to your question regarding permissibility, that’s far beyond the scope of what I’ve been carrying on about. I was trying to hone in on what a protest is at its core versus what it has become in real life. When I see protestors, even those that are behaving themselves, getting our attention and not egregiously disrupting others, there’s a mentality that goes far beyond people that are simply out to exercise free speech: they want what they want, and they are driven to keep going until they get what they want (and I’m not fighting against that), but the talk being thrown about regarding those being against free speech is worlds apart. It’s simply not the case that I am against free speech no matter how many times I express disdain for the tactics sometimes used.
 
This, as I recall, occured when police decided to shut down a transit hub while high school kids were trying to go home, forced the kids traveling through off of their busses, and then shot tear gas and rubber bullets at them for not going home. IOW, a riot instigated by pointless police violence.

Sounds like a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.
 
This, as I recall, occured when police decided to shut down a transit hub while high school kids were trying to go home, forced the kids traveling through off of their busses, and then shot tear gas and rubber bullets at them for not going home. IOW, a riot instigated by pointless police violence.

Sounds like a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.

Sounds like a case of abuses by idiots with power they should not have. But we know you will do anything to avoid criticizing power, so we'll just say it was incompetence in a specific situation. That's the ticket. ;)
 
So tell me, using your very subjective logic, why I should NOT be allowed to protest in this way?

If I am against your message yet welcome you to protest (A),
then that’s a hell of a lot different than
if I am against your message therefore welcome you not (B).

If I am against your message yet welcome you to protest (A),
and have no qualms with HOW the message is delivered (A1),
then that’s a quite a lot different than
If I am against your message yet welcome you to protest (A),
and DO have qualms with HOW the message is delivered (A2)

This thread is (partly) about those being A2 yet treated like B

If I am against HOW you deliver your message yet favor your right to deliver it, don’t say that I am against free speech, for that is untrue.

As to your question regarding permissibility, that’s far beyond the scope of what I’ve been carrying on about. I was trying to hone in on what a protest is at its core versus what it has become in real life. When I see protestors, even those that are behaving themselves, getting our attention and not egregiously disrupting others, there’s a mentality that goes far beyond people that are simply out to exercise free speech: they want what they want, and they are driven to keep going until they get what they want (and I’m not fighting against that), but the talk being thrown about regarding those being against free speech is worlds apart. It’s simply not the case that I am against free speech no matter how many times I express disdain for the tactics sometimes used.

The difference between B, A1, and A2, exists solely within the context of your own mind. It is perfectly subjective. No one is persecuting you, personally, through protest. This 'talk being thrown about regarding those being against free speech' needs support first and foremost. I find the claim that those protesting are simultaneously shouting down dissenters through the medium of free speech dubious at best. I refer back to my first post - logically consistent throughout. You get to be annoyed and disagree and voice your disagreement to any protest. If you expand that line of thought to saying and they shouldn't protest because it is annoying, then maybe America isn't for you.

If the purpose of your OP was "I hate these protests because they are so annoying" then we can agree to agree. To my eyes, it sounded like you were saying that these protests should not occur because they are annoying and disruptive (to me is implied), which sounds like the opposite of free speech.

aa
 
I’m not sure why your eyes are ‘hearing’ that. Maybe it’s because you’re used to a particular mindset, not quite sure what it is I’m actually trying to say, and lumping me in with some notion you have; no idea.

One, I’ve never even been at an organized protest. If I did, I’d probably find some entertainment in it before any annoyance set in, but let’s suppose for the sake of argument that I’ve frequently been in close proximity of ongoing protests whereby I did find it both annoying and disruptive, my views would still be dependent on the details. For instance, if they’re standing on the sidewalks causing traffic to slowdown, the congestion might be both annoying and disruptive, but in that instance, i (personally) would still not be in the camp of those that think they need to stop. Does that help your eyes any?
 
I’m not sure why your eyes are ‘hearing’ that. Maybe it’s because you’re used to a particular mindset, not quite sure what it is I’m actually trying to say, and lumping me in with some notion you have; no idea.

One, I’ve never even been at an organized protest. If I did, I’d probably find some entertainment in it before any annoyance set in, but let’s suppose for the sake of argument that I’ve frequently been in close proximity of ongoing protests whereby I did find it both annoying and disruptive, my views would still be dependent on the details. For instance, if they’re standing on the sidewalks causing traffic to slowdown, the congestion might be both annoying and disruptive, but in that instance, i (personally) would still not be in the camp of those that think they need to stop. Does that help your eyes any?

It does sound better (to my eyes). I did not intend to misinterpret your position - I've couched it very carefully. "If you are saying X, I disagree". It appears you are not saying X.

aa
 
There is no morally defensible protest that can disagree with this principle and every injustice you whose protest you would support is ultimately an injustice b/c such principles were violated. This principle inherently means that only laws that respect this principle should be obeyed. Thus, not only allowing but encouraging civil disobedience against such laws or practices.
Where we diverge is when, inevitably, the only forms of civil disobedience with a chance of bringing about effective change involve collateral damage against parties who are not directly responsible for the offending laws. The massive social disruptions stemming from protests during the 1960's caused a great deal of damage not only to the centers of power that were being opposed, but also to the interconnected entities caught in the crossfire (otherwise innocent employees of businesses whose storefronts were destroyed for refusing to employ blacks, for instance). That's the kind of act that is routinely described as the worst possible evil by those in power who want to retain it; and the first justification they offer is "the protesters acted with disregard for the rights of ordinary people". You are of course free to point out that the real problem here is that the business owners and the state are acting with disregard for the individual rights of blacks to be gainfully employed. Tomato, tomah-to. All I'm saying is that we should reject the version of events offered by those in power and support the protesters, not in spite of the fact that they trashed a storefront and inconvenienced some people, but because they did so.

First of all, it is total bullshit that the abolition of slavery required slave revolt. Countless slaves around the world have been freed without them doing or able to do anything about their condition. Slaves existed since pre-civilization and the practice was not ended on any large scale, despite those slaves trying to end it. There was nothing unique about the character and self determination of US slaves over other slaves that made them the first to finally end it.
Whether US slaves happened to play a role in bringing an end to their own slavery is besides the point that their role was not neccessary and was minor to the more general principled ending of the practice. That occurred because of the long term effects of Enlightenment principles which included ideas about individual rights of person's and the need for such principles to applied with reason rather than arbitrary authority, which would inherently and eventually did lead to their legal application to all humans.
It was a cultural ethical shift that occurred because people gained more and more respect for the principle of personal liberty as the foundation of ethics. The US slaves were also impacted by this cultural shift. While nearly all past slaves objected to their own enslavement, they did not as strongly object to slavery in general on principled grounds. The increased respect for individual rights changed that and led more slaves to feel a sense of moral righteousness and opposition to the entire idea of slavery that emboldened their revolt and opposition beyond trying to end their personal hardships.
That's a very European take and is not informed by a close reading of history. I recommend Rupturing the Dialectic by Harry Cleaver, which details how all examples of oppression (feudal, slave, peasant, or industrial) were subverted from within by the oppressed in indispensable ways. Your assertion that the slaves had no "principled grounds" to reject slavery (presumably, until European philosophy caught up with the liberal conception of rights, as if no philosophy or contemplation of human freedom had ever occurred in Africa, South America, or Asia prior to that point) is just tragic to read.

It is like if you swing at me and I grab and break your arm in self defense. The direct connection between the act being truly neccessary to protect my own rights means that the act promotes rather than undermines the principle of protecting individual rights. In contrast, if I were to grab your daughter and threaten her life if you try to punch me, then I have violated her rights as much as you were trying to violate mine, and the principle of individual rights is doubly undermined rather than protected.
Funny example. It's actually quite common during revolutions of the underclass against their masters (such as, again, slaves) to take members of their family hostage, as that was often the only tactic that would actually result in their liberation. It seems we are merely in disagreement of what constitutes a "truly necessary" act of defense against infringement. Of course, in your example, all else being equal, the punch does not warrant a kidnapping, but the very definition of protest includes as a structural element that all else is far from equal.

Decent and reasonable people make a huge ethical distinction between these two situations, just as they do between "protesters" who are controlling their own body and speech (such as not working and speaking out about their conditions) versus those who violated the basic rights of bystanders to coerce politicians into intervening on their behalf (e.g., blocking traffic).
The roadblock in your thinking (pardon the pun) is the failure to appreciate this: there is no way for an oppressed party to perform acts of civil disobedience that ONLY target the object of their protest while simultaneously maximizing their ability to succeed in their goals. Society is, again, too interconnected for that to happen. Above, you implied that the acts of slaves against their masters were justified because their masters did not deserve the property they wielded; but what about those in the community who were fed and clothed by the crops grown on the plantations razed to the ground by slaves? Were they all complicit in slavery despite not actually holding slaves, and perhaps personally feeling as thought slavery were wrong? The reason slaves' destruction of tools and abandonment of work was an effective tool in the resistance against slavery was because it harmed the slaveholders more than it harmed "decent and reasonable people"... but it definitely harmed them both.

Likewise, if you refuse to work for an employer and harm his production, that is just exercising your right to control your body. However, if you try to get others to support your cause by drawing attention via preventing other people from getting to their jobs, then you have violated their rights as much as your employer would had they used goons to threaten you with violence to get back to work. That is a form of "protest" that is no longer exercising your rights of action and speech, and becomes a violation of others action and speech, which undermines the very principle and makes greater violations of it more probable for all in the future. Thus, it is not an acceptable method, not to mention cannot be reasonable argued to be neccessary in order for you to protect your basic rights over your own body and speech.
The refusal to work has greater consequences than simply harming the production of an employer. It harms the livelihood of anyone who depends upon employment by the employer; my refusal to work could have such dramatic effects on a business that it forces cutbacks, causing other employees to lose their jobs or get their hours cut as the employer tries to minimize the damage. You aren't thinking laterally, and you're assuming a perfect isolation of innocent and guilty parties that never exists in reality.

IF you are harming people as a byproduct of simply engaging in acts neccessary to exercise your own rights, then their rights are not violated b/c they do not extend in any way that would prevent your rights. If you are harming others as an unnecessary tactic (which applies to nearly every method in question, like blocking traffic or shouting down other's speech) to draw attention to your concerns, then you are violating not only their rights, but the idea that it is valuable to protect the rights of all and that it is wrong to violate some people's rights for the gain of others, even the majority.
There is not as vivid a demarcation between the two acts as your take suggests, and blocking traffic isn't on the side that you think it is, unless you are of the mind that marchers on their way to Montgomery from Selma made sure to stay on the sidewalks.

The very concept of rights makes no sense except in relation to the individual. Groups exists only as a mental abstraction. In reality, what exists are individuals onto which various manufactured mental categories can be placed. The whole notion of something having rights is that it must be free to act in accord with it's own thoughts and will. There is not such thing a group mind or group will. Minds and will's are products of brains, which exist within individual skulls and vary independently, even when they happen to arrive at the same state. Thus, all rights and ethics do flow from the protection of things that have a will (which are individuals) to exercise that will over the body from which it is created.
Rights themselves are a mental abstraction. You have a habit of retreating to naive reductionism on every point, which I used to share as a holdover from my days as a militant atheist. I see it in how you pepper your replies with terms like "logical necessity" to bolster their credibility, as if there were some secret underlying equation that leads only to your view, and not a mishmash of cultural impulses rising and falling against a backdrop of emotional ones that are uncomfortable to acknowledge.

These enlightenment conceptions are the primary source of all the exponential moral and political progress in the last few centuries, including ending slavery as an institution, the civil right's acts, women's suffrage, gay rights, etc..
The concept of individual rights is by far the most essential and neccessary ingredient in all of that improvement to the lives of almost all who live in cultures where this principle has gained acceptance, while cultures where the collective takes priority over individual rights have generally lagged well behind in granting basic rights to all and only achieve "equality" by granting rights to none but the few with political power.
Oh please. Where do you suppose these concepts and principles came from? I guess one day, Locke just decided to sit down and invent individual rights? You've got it backwards. Read Marx on this. Material conditions come first and cause all the action, and ideas are what spring up in their wake after the dust settles to explain what happened in sanitized terms, insisting that all along, it was the guiding magic of "enlightenment" behind the gains of ordinary people rather than the struggles of ordinary people later being canonized as the enlightenment. History does not unfold from above the neck down, it goes from below the neck (often below the waist) on up.
 
This, as I recall, occured when police decided to shut down a transit hub while high school kids were trying to go home, forced the kids traveling through off of their busses, and then shot tear gas and rubber bullets at them for not going home. IOW, a riot instigated by pointless police violence.

Sounds like a case of the left hand not knowing what the right hand was doing.

Sounds like a case of abuses by idiots with power they should not have. But we know you will do anything to avoid criticizing power, so we'll just say it was incompetence in a specific situation. That's the ticket. ;)

One should not assume malice when incompetence is sufficient to explain what happened.
 
Sounds like a case of abuses by idiots with power they should not have. But we know you will do anything to avoid criticizing power, so we'll just say it was incompetence in a specific situation. That's the ticket. ;)

One should not assume malice when incompetence is sufficient to explain what happened.

With all the people US police kill and brutalize, one should not assume your response is anything but bootlicking.

Learn to hold power accountable, Loren.
 
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