Public Library votes

[Loren Pechtel]

If you have kids, libraries are awesome come the winter, especially if there is a play area for the kids. We go to about three different town's libraries to switch it up over the winter, and they are all great.

This highlights an actual issue that reasonable people should consider. The reasonable question is not whether libraries spread liberalism via evil things like "knowledge" and "facts", but whether in our internet age they provide much of the service they were create to provide, and if not, do they provide other services (e.g., indoor playgrounds), and are those the services people are voting to support, and are libraries the best way to provide them?

Yeah. I find myself less and less supportive of our libraries due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books. We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Library votes are common around here. They do pass. The schools, however, have a harder time. Apparently educating your children is important, but not enough to pay the schools.

It is dispiriting that anyone would want to close a library. Proves that some people will believe anything their right-wing masters tell them.

Or people don't feel the schools are doing a good job with the money they have.

Or are just typically ignorant what is actually going on.

Take an ax to their administration and people might be more willing to vote for school stuff.

Uh huh.

Around here there's also the ongoing issue that they love to slip operating expenses into bond issues and that gets an automatic no vote from me. Bonds are for capital expenses only.

Yes sir!

Over in Akron, our school district has to deal with having too many buildings (old too) for too few students as the population in the area has shrunk since Obama destroyed the rubber industry in Akron. They keep wanting to ask for money to pay for newer buildings that won't leak heat into the outside during the winter. The bastards!

 

[doubtingt]

Different communities will have different justifications. I spend a lot of time in libraries (3-5 days a week) so I see a lot of the different ways people use it.

Some areas do not have widespread high speed internet. You cannot access the internet on dial-up any more. All the pages are packed with video that takes hours to load.

Not everyone has a device to download content. Our library lends nooks pre-loaded with books that are put on for the patron. E-books are restricted by the publishers to a 14-day reading period with no renewal. Books can still be taken out for 4 weeks and then renewed twice.

Libraries are unique in their research capabilities. Librarians can still find things that many cannot. The ability to be a participant in the demoncracy has no stronger defender, nor tireless searcher. Librarians will get that info you want, and make you a paper copy for a nickel. This one is huge, IMHO, as there is no other place in the community that offers help with research or connections.

Libraries still offer a learning place for children to be on their off hours. Ours does not have a playground, but it has books and chairs. These are filled with children every day.

The adult section has a steady stream of elderly people who come in to read a newspaper or magazine

The computer section is filled with waiting lists every day, and there is a steady stream to the help-desk on how to navigate.

The Young Adult section has teens in it every day, filling every available chair plus the floor.

Tutoring happens there, with resources.

Writing clubs happen there.

The summer school lunch replacement happens at ours, and the kids get a book while there.

many of those above are the kind of thing that lifts up the citizenship of those with least fortune, which, IMHO, benefits the whole society by creating productivity, peace, contentment and safety.


...just some of the justifications that exist.

Those are all good reasons, and similar to those for having a public education system, which I fully support. But I would bet there are many libraries that are not being as effectively used, meaning not only that they provide such services, but that they are actually utilized for the educational and practical purposes you describe and to an extent that warrants the overhead. Also, in areas where they are being under used, how much of those services could be provided by local school libraries, from elementary to colleges? Give local residents access to the libraries of colleges, and a great deal of redundant overhead could be cut.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Those are all good reasons, and similar to those for having a public education system, which I fully support. But I would bet there are many libraries that are not being as effectively used, meaning not only that they provide such services, but that they are actually utilized for the educational and practical purposes you describe and to an extent that warrants the overhead. Also, in areas where they are being under used, how much of those services could be provided by local school libraries, from elementary to colleges? Give local residents access to the libraries of colleges, and a great deal of redundant overhead could be cut.

I heard the University of Akron has an awesome children's section.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

This highlights an actual issue that reasonable people should consider. The reasonable question is not whether libraries spread liberalism via evil things like "knowledge" and "facts", but whether in our internet age they provide much of the service they were create to provide, and if not, do they provide other services (e.g., indoor playgrounds), and are those the services people are voting to support, and are libraries the best way to provide them?

Yeah. I find myself less and less supportive of our libraries due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books. We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

You have video rental in your town. Do you live in 1987?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

This highlights an actual issue that reasonable people should consider. The reasonable question is not whether libraries spread liberalism via evil things like "knowledge" and "facts", but whether in our internet age they provide much of the service they were create to provide, and if not, do they provide other services (e.g., indoor playgrounds), and are those the services people are voting to support, and are libraries the best way to provide them?

Yeah. I find myself less and less supportive of our libraries...

I'm stunned.

....due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books.

What percentage?

We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

Competing? Maybe you didn't notice, but Blockbuster was decimated. And it wasn't because of Public Libraries.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I used my public library extensively when I was looking for a job and funds were tight. Aside from the adequate number of computers, the wifi and quiet rooms were quite useful when having to write up the narratives that some jobs required. My little town isn't as narrow minded as I give it credit for. It's a really nice library.
But if you want to make sure the issue passes, twist the wording so they think they are approving another umpteen million dollar high school football stadium.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah. I find myself less and less supportive of our libraries due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books. We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

You have video rental in your town. Do you live in 1987?

Redbox?

Netflix?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah. I find myself less and less supportive of our libraries...

I'm stunned.

....due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books.

What percentage?

We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

Competing? Maybe you didn't notice, but Blockbuster was decimated. And it wasn't because of Public Libraries.

I don't know the percentage of the budget that's going to video. Most of what look at in the library is the new book shelf--and I've watched it shrink and shrink (it's down to 10% of what it was 10 years ago) while I see lots of new videos.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm stunned.

....due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books.

What percentage?

We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

Competing? Maybe you didn't notice, but Blockbuster was decimated. And it wasn't because of Public Libraries.

I don't know the percentage of the budget that's going to video.

Okay, so when you said that it went up, you didn't mean to insinuate that you had a clue what you were speaking about. Understood.

Most of what look at in the library is the new book shelf--and I've watched it shrink and shrink (it's down to 10% of what it was 10 years ago) while I see lots of new videos.

10% of what it was 10 years ago? Is that a similar like statement you made above?

 

[Rhea]

You have video rental in your town. Do you live in 1987?

Redbox?

Netflix?

Those cost money. Library's free.

Although the collection is not huge. It's really just a tiny fraction of the material. By linear feet of shelf it's less than 3% (all right, I cheated the linear feet estimation and just went on numbers of shelves. That's fairly close and definitely conservative) But it's more than I need to watch in a year. Plus they had that EXCELLENT HHMI video with Sean Carroll on developmental evolution.

Another thing the library has that is wonderful are audio books, language courses and how-to videos.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know the percentage of the budget that's going to video. Most of what look at in the library is the new book shelf--and I've watched it shrink and shrink (it's down to 10% of what it was 10 years ago) while I see lots of new videos.

So, yeah.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I'm stunned.

....due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books.

What percentage?

We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

Competing? Maybe you didn't notice, but Blockbuster was decimated. And it wasn't because of Public Libraries.

I don't know the percentage of the budget that's going to video.

Okay, so when you said that it went up, you didn't mean to insinuate that you had a clue what you were speaking about. Understood.

Most of what look at in the library is the new book shelf--and I've watched it shrink and shrink (it's down to 10% of what it was 10 years ago) while I see lots of new videos.

10% of what it was 10 years ago? Is that a similar like statement you made above?

I haven't tracked down the budget numbers. I have looked at the new book shelf many, many times. The books aren't there.

 

[Bronzeage]

Libraries are a quality of life infrastructure issue, much like public parks and public schools. A city which does not want to support a good library system will have trouble attracting new industry and business.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm stunned.

....due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books.

What percentage?

We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

Competing? Maybe you didn't notice, but Blockbuster was decimated. And it wasn't because of Public Libraries.

I don't know the percentage of the budget that's going to video.

Okay, so when you said that it went up, you didn't mean to insinuate that you had a clue what you were speaking about. Understood.

Most of what look at in the library is the new book shelf--and I've watched it shrink and shrink (it's down to 10% of what it was 10 years ago) while I see lots of new videos.

10% of what it was 10 years ago? Is that a similar like statement you made above?

I haven't tracked down the budget numbers. I have looked at the new book shelf many, many times. The books aren't there.

Well there you have it. The New Book Shelf is the life blood of all libraries. Any chance the new books are out?

 

[dismal]

Those cost money. Library's free.

Well, good then it shouldn't need any taxpayer money.

 

[Bronzeage]

I'm stunned.

....due to the amount of their materials budget going for video rather than books.

What percentage?

We have perfectly good video rental businesses out there, the library shouldn't be competing in that area.

Competing? Maybe you didn't notice, but Blockbuster was decimated. And it wasn't because of Public Libraries.

I don't know the percentage of the budget that's going to video.

Okay, so when you said that it went up, you didn't mean to insinuate that you had a clue what you were speaking about. Understood.

Most of what look at in the library is the new book shelf--and I've watched it shrink and shrink (it's down to 10% of what it was 10 years ago) while I see lots of new videos.

10% of what it was 10 years ago? Is that a similar like statement you made above?

I haven't tracked down the budget numbers. I have looked at the new book shelf many, many times. The books aren't there.

Well there you have it. The New Book Shelf is the life blood of all libraries. Any chance the new books are out?

I think it's strange someone who thinks libraries are a poor use of tax money would spend so much time in one, looking for new books.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Those cost money. Library's free.

Well, good then it shouldn't need any taxpayer money.

Well, as you know, free doesn't mean no costs realized anywhere. Much like Health Care in Canada isn't free. But you knew that. Taxpayer dollars pay for everything in the library.

 

[dismal]

Well, good then it shouldn't need any taxpayer money.

Well, as you know, free doesn't mean no costs realized anywhere. Much like Health Care in Canada isn't free. But you knew that. Taxpayer dollars pay for everything in the library.

It's entirely possible that was the point I was making.

But thanks for explaining it to the slow.

 

[Bronzeage]

Well, as you know, free doesn't mean no costs realized anywhere. Much like Health Care in Canada isn't free. But you knew that. Taxpayer dollars pay for everything in the library.

It's entirely possible that was the point I was making.

But thanks for explaining it to the slow.

It's much like the bridges you'll never drive across. Taxes could be much lower if people were expected to build their own bridges if they wanted to get someplace.

I do find it funny that some conservatives see Libraries as bastions of liberal thinking and ideas. In the US, public libraries have been one of the most conservative social forces. I think what those conservative's real objections are to the educated people who patronize libraries.

The educated are viewed with suspicion by our latest generation of conservatives. The educated are always coming up with some statement of fact and logic which makes them look foolish.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It's entirely possible that was the point I was making.

But thanks for explaining it to the slow.

It's much like the bridges you'll never drive across. Taxes could be much lower if people were expected to build their own bridges if they wanted to get someplace.

I do find it funny that some conservatives see Libraries as bastions of liberal thinking and ideas. In the US, public libraries have been one of the most conservative social forces. I think what those conservative's real objections are to the educated people who patronize libraries.

The educated are viewed with suspicion by our latest generation of conservatives. The educated are always coming up with some statement of fact and logic which makes them look foolish.

I would actually be curious about what percentage of people believe we shouldn't have public libraries and what their general rationale for it. How many believe as you said, or how many of them believe that the people who use it should pay for it.