Putin and MBS are Laughing at Us

[steve_bank]

I don't think Putin is laughing right now.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

As the population of SaudiArabia has grown, so has their need for money. Oil is their big cash cow. So of course they are not going to cut their income because somebody in the USA asks them to. Nothing personal, it is strictly business. Any politician running on the claim he or she can get our ally, Saudia Arabia to give us more oil to slash oil prices is full of crap. And all of the angry bawling from some right winged Senator or Cogress creep is useless hot air.

With the situation in Russia and Ukraine, slashing oil production will boost prices to new highs handing Saudi Arabia obscene amounts of money. Strictly business.

 

[Bomb#20]

And as I live about as far away from the US as it's possible to get without joining the space program, it's assuredly not okiophobia to point out how idiotic your nation is being.

That doesn't really follow when your country is making exactly the same choices. No nukes! Coal forever!

Why the tu quoque? bilby has made the exact same criticism about his own country's choices, and every other country's that rejects nuclear reactors as sources of electricity as well.

It's not a tu quoque; it's an Australia quoque and bilby is not Australia. I'm just pointing out his condemnation of American selfishness is implicitly a condemnation of Australian selfishness too, which makes "I live about as far away as it's possible to get" a pretty lame defense against Oleg's okiophobia charge.

It's also worth pointing out that the party that promotes the attitude Bomb#20 (Liberal/National) describes has had their arse handed to them in the last Federal election, Western Australian election, Queensland election, Victorian election, South Australian election, Northern Territory and the ACT. That's the federal government and 5 out of 7 states and territories.

Simply put, something is being done about the politicians Bomb#20 feels oh so clever pointing out exists.

Is it really? Does Labor have any intention whatsoever of building nuclear reactors? Or is their "solution" to simply stop subsidizing coal, build solar farms, and avoid thinking about the duck curve? (Cough: let the market deal with it. (Cough cough: drill more gas/import more oil.))

 

[Swammerdami]

Yes, how horrible for a politician to do what is best for his country. Enough with this lefty okiophobia shit.

... And as I live about as far away from the US as it's possible to get without joining the space program, it's assuredly not okiophobia to point out how idiotic your nation is being.

Nitpick: I learned a new word today but it is NOT okiophobia. It is oikophobia.

I thought okiophobia was fear of Okies.

 

[Jarhyn]

Trump promoted US energy independance. But he made mean Tweets. So, now we've got Biden, who looks to foreigners to supply our oil.

Remind me, who was Vice President when the greatest stride towards US oil independence occurred? And who was the tangerine cunt who fucked up all that progress by fellating a fascist dictator?

I will never understand reich wingers. They don't seem to actually care about what is done, they just like slogans detached from reality.

By using slogans detached from reality they can get people to hand them power without doing the work to figure out the math or ever apply it to fix anything.

 

[bilby]

Yes, how horrible for a politician to do what is best for his country. Enough with this lefty okiophobia shit.

... And as I live about as far away from the US as it's possible to get without joining the space program, it's assuredly not okiophobia to point out how idiotic your nation is being.

Nitpick: I learned a new word today but it is NOT okiophobia. It is oikophobia.

I thought okiophobia was fear of Okies.

Fear of oiks is perfectly sensible.

 

[steve_bank]

As the population of SaudiArabia has grown, so has their need for money. Oil is their big cash cow. So of course they are not going to cut their income because somebody in the USA asks them to. Nothing personal, it is strictly business. Any politician running on the claim he or she can get our ally, Saudia Arabia to give us more oil to slash oil prices is full of crap. And all of the angry bawling from some right winged Senator or Cogress creep is useless hot air.

With the situation in Russia and Ukraine, slashing oil production will boost prices to new highs handing Saudi Arabia obscene amounts of money. Strictly business.

Of course, the Suadis are poor camel jockies just getting by.

It isa welfare stare for most based on oil. American and European investment built Saudi oil infrastructure. Then they nationalized oil.

ARAMCO was the Arabian American Oil Company.

About 15 years ago I knew a knew an American woman who crewed on the private 747 of a Saudi minister. As she put it they loaded up their toys like cars, boats, and jet skis. Flew to a pace live Brazil. Engaged in a week of sex, drunken debauchery and fun. Then flew back home, put on their robes and turbans, and put on an air of religion.


SA Price per barrel oil

breakeven $71
Current $92

Cash reserves about $400 bn.

They had a windfall during the peak over $100.

The unwritten agreement was we provide regional stability especially the straights from Iran and SA keeps price stable.

They have played us like a fiddle from the beginning.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Well it certainly makes a pleasant change to see someone else recognise, however tangentially and cautiously, that nuclear power was and is the only workable option to replace fossil fuels.

I'm totally with you that nuclear power is great and it's a shame that it has been vilified. However, it's not an option to replace fossil fuels (well, maybe, coal). The recent hurriane in Florida showed quite clearly that those gas-powered utilitiy trucks were infinitely more practical than the stranded powerless Teslas.

Plug in hybrids.

 

[Hermit]

And as I live about as far away from the US as it's possible to get without joining the space program, it's assuredly not okiophobia to point out how idiotic your nation is being.

That doesn't really follow when your country is making exactly the same choices. No nukes! Coal forever!

Why the tu quoque? bilby has made the exact same criticism about his own country's choices, and every other country's that rejects nuclear reactors as sources of electricity as well.

It's not a tu quoque; it's an Australia quoque and bilby is not Australia. I'm just pointing out his condemnation of American selfishness is implicitly a condemnation of Australian selfishness too, which makes "I live about as far away as it's possible to get" a pretty lame defense against Oleg's okiophobia charge.

Are you suggesting bilby exempts Australia from the same charge? Perhaps you should read some of his numerous posts regarding Australia's refusal to pursue nuclear energy creation inevitably condemning it to reliance on coal and only marginally less destructive gas.

Your tu quoque is pointless.

 

[Bomb#20]

Why the tu quoque? bilby has made the exact same criticism about his own country's choices, and every other country's that rejects nuclear reactors as sources of electricity as well.

It's not a tu quoque; it's an Australia quoque and bilby is not Australia. I'm just pointing out his condemnation of American selfishness is implicitly a condemnation of Australian selfishness too, which makes "I live about as far away as it's possible to get" a pretty lame defense against Oleg's okiophobia charge.

Are you suggesting bilby exempts Australia from the same charge?

Not in the least. How the bejesus did you get that out of my post?

Perhaps you should read some of his numerous posts regarding Australia's refusal to pursue nuclear energy creation inevitably condemning it to reliance on coal and only marginally less destructive gas.

Been there, done that, with him all the way.

Your tu quoque is pointless.

I lost you. Are you arguing that bilby is Australia? Are you arguing that I was talking to Australia rather than to bilby? Or are you arguing that "tu" does not mean "you"?

 

[Patooka]

I lost you. Are you arguing that bilby is Australia?

Bilby is Australia - we are all Bilby. Prove me wrong. It's interesting you are focusing on the nuclear part, when your initial oh so clever gotcha post involved nuclear and a dependence on coal. Sure some mistake are being made, but at least we're Bilby is fucking doing something about it.

 

[Bomb#20]

Bilby is Australia - we are all Bilby. Prove me wrong.

Who, me? Je suis Charlie Hebdo, so if vous etes bilby, knock yourself out.

It's interesting you are focusing on the nuclear part,

Oh for the love of god. I was focusing on the oikophobia part -- which bilby is no longer even disputing. He's moved on to justifying it. You guys are taking a bit of opportunistic snark way too seriously.

Sure some mistake are being made, but at least we're Bilby is ... doing something about it.

"At least"? What's he doing about it? He's telling Australians you need nukes. I'm telling Americans we need nukes. We're all on the same side here.

 

[Derec]

The non-linked article is no doubt firewalled, but the quoted excerpt does not really back up the title that "Putin and MbS are laughing at us". The except talks more about natural gas, which is where many Europeans' phobia of nuclear power comes in.

While Russia is a major player in both gas and oil, Saudis are not a major natural gas exporter (Qatar is the gas powerhouse on the Arabian Peninsula); their game is strictly oil. US, Russia and KSA are the three top producers, each producing just north of 10 Mbbl/d. However, while the other two are net exporters, US consumes about twice as much as we produce.
Now, I do not think Saudis/OPEC are cutting production in order to laugh in our faces. Sure, MbS has good reasons to distrust Biden (calling him a "pariah" and ending most of US support for Saudi campaign to defend Yemen from Iranian aggression). But I think that's not it. It's business. Oil price has been sliding since the June peak of ~$120/bbl (WTI) and OPEC does not want to see it slide any further.
However, not even that is the most fundamental reason. I think that simply KSA cannot sustain current production of ~11 Mbbl/d. They need, not just want, the cut.
As I have mentioned in the gas price thread, Saudi Aramco relies on a handful of very old giga and megafields for most of the Kingdom's production. Ghawar alone, which started production 70 years ago, is still responsible for ~1/3 of production. At the same time, Aramco is infamous for lack of transparency, and most observers believe that KSA's proven reserves are wildly overstated.

 

[Derec]

Trump promoted oil, but in a typically ignorant failure to grasp that it is a global commodity, he believed that it would be possible to use US oil production to make the US independent of foreign production.

Did he? [citation needed]
In fact, this suggests that it is certain Democratic Senator who want to insulate US oil market from the worldwide one.
Senators Markey, Merkley, Wyden, and Sanders Reintroduce Legislation to Ban U.S. Oil Exports

Anyone who thinks that oil can and should be made cheap and plentiful enough that Americans can continue using it in vast quantities is a fucking liability. So that's basically every politician in America, and most of the voters too.

Even with fastest feasible adoption of EVs we will still need oil for decades. So I support domestic oil production while at the same time pushing to reduce fossil fuel use. Carbon tax would be a much better idea than pressuring banks to divest from oil or gas or denying permits to pipelines.

 

[Derec]

Remind me, who was Vice President when the greatest stride towards US oil independence occurred?

No thanks to Obama/Biden administration. The increase in domestic oil production occurred because of the shale revolution, aka hydraulic fracturing aka fracking (a dirty word for fauxgressives anyway). For most of his tenure Obama was neither helping nor hurting fracking operations. Until the end, when he caved to the crazies in his own party who had occupied land next to the pipeline construction site in North Dakota (including AOC before she became AOC). Trump reversed that ill-advised decision, of course, and DAPL has operated since. To his credit, Biden refused to kill DAPL outright even though the crazies wanted him to. He did however cave on cancelling Keystone XL.

And who was the tangerine cunt who fucked up all that progress by fellating a fascist dictator?

How exactly do you think Trump "fucked up" the progress of US domestic oil production? Your link certainly does not make any such claim.
Being friendly with MbS did not harm US producers (and didn't Biden pay him a friendly visit him too?). And btw, it seems to me that the visceral hatred by progressives of Saudi Arabia started relatively recently.
Sure, KSA has always been a detestable dictatorship. But MbS introduced some much needed reforms, such as women finally being able to drive. And yet, the hatred against KSA increased to a crescendo since he took over. There has always been criticism, but this spittle is new. Could it have to do with MbS' careful rapprochement with Israel? There aren't many things doctrinaire leftists hate more than Israel. But I digress ...

I will never understand reich wingers. They don't seem to actually care about what is done, they just like slogans detached from reality.

I will never understand left (or "Soviet" as a counterpoint to your cheap insult) wingers. They don't seem to understand the difference between things done by the private sector vs. things done by the government.

 

[Derec]

Trump "promoted" many things. But he didn't get shit done.

He did get shit done. For example, he reversed Obama's purely political cancellation of the (almost complete) Dakota Access Pipeline.

Oil production is higher today than what it was during Trump's time.

You are better than this. Oil production is done by private companies and how much is produced is dependent on many variables, governmental policies one of many. Global oil price being a major driver of supply increases. Oil price was in the $50s in e.g. 2019, and has been >$100 for much of this year. In 2020 we had the pandemic and unprecedented demand destruction too.
If you think oil production being higher today vs. 2019 is due to Biden's policies, can you point to some that you think made domestic oil production easier?

 

[Derec]

It is idiotic to not aggressively increase our oil production while we make a sesible pkanned and control trasition to non fossil fuels. .

So are you saying that Obama was wrong for cancelling DAPL, a pipeline designed to make domestic oil production from the Bakken formation more competitive?

 

[Hermit]

While Russia is a major player in both gas and oil, Saudis are not a major natural gas exporter (Qatar is the gas powerhouse on the Arabian Peninsula); their game is strictly oil. US, Russia and KSA are the three top producers, each producing just north of 10 Mbbl/d. However, while the other two are net exporters, US consumes about twice as much as we produce.

Out of date info. The US does not only produce more natural gas than Russia. As of 2017 it has become a net exporter of it.

Last year it became the second-largest exporter. With Nordstream no longer functioning it may be the largest exporter of gas in the world this year.

 

[Derec]

Out of date info.

It is not. That statement was about oil. Oil is measured in bbl, gas is not. Had the editing window not closed already, I would edit for clarity though.
I know US is a net exporter of gas, and that is, just like with oil, thanks to the shale/fracking revolution.
However, gas is far more difficult to transport by ship. You have to liquify it (LNG).

 

[Harry Bosch]

Trump "promoted" many things. But he didn't get shit done.

He did get shit done. For example, he reversed Obama's purely political cancellation of the (almost complete) Dakota Access Pipeline.

Oil production is higher today than what it was during Trump's time.

You are better than this. Oil production is done by private companies and how much is produced is dependent on many variables, governmental policies one of many. Global oil price being a major driver of supply increases. Oil price was in the $50s in e.g. 2019, and has been >$100 for much of this year. In 2020 we had the pandemic and unprecedented demand destruction too.
If you think oil production being higher today vs. 2019 is due to Biden's policies, can you point to some that you think made domestic oil production easier?

"Trump promoted US energy independance. But he made mean Tweets. So, now we've got Biden, who looks to foreigners to supply our oil."

Well, you removed Oleg's quote that I was referring to. Above is his post. Of course, the private sector drives US oil production. Many conservatives who get their news from Fox don't understand this. It is clearly false that "Biden looks to foreigners to supply our oil". We are the largest supplier of oil in the world. By far.