Putin just threatened Europe: no new U.S. nukes on the continent

[phands]

The stupid tangerine shitgibbon seems to want a war....

Russian President Vladimir Putin warned Europe Wednesday that any country accepting new U.S. nukes on its territory risks a retaliatory strike from Moscow.


The threat came as NATO launched its largest war games exercise since the Cold War Thursday, with more than 50,000 personnel from 31 countries drilling a mock invasion of Norway.


Putin was responding to President Donald Trump’s call Sunday for the U.S. to withdraw from from the 1987 Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty, credited with ending an arms race between the U.S. and the Soviet Union in the dying years of the Cold War.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article...tened-europe-no-new-us-nukes-on-the-continent

 

[Tom Sawyer]

OK, but the Russian military is underfunded and obsolete. They can't actually threaten a real country, so it makes the threat fairly empty.

The only legitimate threat they have is a nuclear strike and Putin's not dumb enough to launch a nuclear strike against people who can shoot nukes back, so that makes the threat fairly empty.

 

[phands]

Possibly, but this now gives the orange nazi the excuse to rush into mass production of new nukes.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Possibly, but this now gives the orange nazi the excuse to rush into mass production of new nukes.

Well, it's about time. It's possible that there's a square kilometer on the planet somewhere which your current batch of nukes couldn't destroy and a terrorist might be hiding there.

 

[phands]

Possibly, but this now gives the orange nazi the excuse to rush into mass production of new nukes.

Well, it's about time. It's possible that there's a square kilometer on the planet somewhere which your current batch of nukes couldn't destroy and a terrorist might be hiding there.

Also, I really worry that he'll use some war or threat of one to declate martial law, and set himself up as despot for life.

 

[Elixir]

Possibly, but this now gives the orange nazi the excuse to rush into mass production of new nukes.

Well, it's about time. It's possible that there's a square kilometer on the planet somewhere which your current batch of nukes couldn't destroy and a terrorist might be hiding there.

Also, I really worry that he'll use some war or threat of one to declate martial law, and set himself up as despot for life.

It's a foregone conclusion that he wants to do that. The only question is whether there will be a Congress in place that will permit it by the time he launches the plan.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Possibly, but this now gives the orange nazi the excuse to rush into mass production of new nukes.

Well, it's about time. It's possible that there's a square kilometer on the planet somewhere which your current batch of nukes couldn't destroy and a terrorist might be hiding there.

Also, I really worry that he'll use some war or threat of one to declate martial law, and set himself up as despot for life.

Well, on the bright side, that would mean you'd never have to worry about Hillary Clinton running again and therefore won't need to worry about having a President with an unsecure email server.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

OK, but the Russian military is underfunded and obsolete.

They won't be after this (and the recent destruction of the non-proliferation treaty that preceded it). Now Putin has justification for funneling billions into overhauling Russia's nuke and conventional capabilities.

Think about this. Everyone knows climate change is real and we're fucked unless something drastic is done and quickly. Putin has allied himself with China and Saudi Arabia; he is sitting on the world's largest supply of oil; he has disrupted the EU and destroyed the US from within. Now he has a reason to create more nukes (which, likely, have already been created and this is just a cover to reveal the results).

So the question could very easily be put to China and Saudia Arabia, who, along with Russia are now the world's largest super powers, in light of scarcity due to climate change, why don't we just nuke all the little countries? America is out of the equation; NATO is out of the equation; the UK/EU is out of the equation.

It's certainly the kind of "solution" someone like Putin would come up with and I certainly wouldn't put it past him to implement.
The only question would be who first and when. The most logical answer being, the US first and now, while we have an incompetent in the WH and a fractured chain of command accordingly.

Short of that, it's an excuse to funnel even more billions into his own coffers and guarantee Russia's already established global dominance no matter what may happen in 2020.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Nukes cost money. Russia's economy is built on oil exports. With prices being moderate as they are now, and with technology moving forward in expensive leaps, I'm not very worried about Russia's ability to build large, modern nuclear (or conventional, for that matter) forces.

Trump worries me much more than any foreign country or leader.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

OK, but the Russian military is underfunded and obsolete.

They won't be after this (and the recent destruction of the non-proliferation treaty that preceded it). Now Putin has justification for funneling billions into overhauling Russia's nuke and conventional capabilities.

What billions? It's a broke-assed country and the ruble isn't an international base currency so it can't just print more cash in order to pay for things.

You think Putin and his oligarchs are going to funnel some of the billions they've ripped off from their people back into the treasury for military spending or something?

 

[Elixir]

OK, but the Russian military is underfunded and obsolete.

They won't be after this (and the recent destruction of the non-proliferation treaty that preceded it). Now Putin has justification for funneling billions into overhauling Russia's nuke and conventional capabilities.

What billions? It's a broke-assed country and the ruble isn't an international base currency so it can't just print more cash in order to pay for things.

You think Putin and his oligarchs are going to funnel some of the billions they've ripped off from their people back into the treasury for military spending or something?

Good point about their hollow currency, and it speaks to their urgent need for laundry service. Another problem for financing any big new Russian military projects is that Putin doesn't own EVERYTHING in Russia; there is a shocking number of paper billionaires, created upon the dissolution of the USSR. It would take most of them acting in concert to pool enough money to underwrite an expensive military expansion.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Exactly. Their financial situation is such that they'll have big problems keeping up with us ... much less the Chinese, if the latter decide on expanding their military further.

 

[barbos]

I am surprised to see people here supporting Trump starting another nuclear arms race.
As for how much would it cost Russia to react to this then not much, All they need is a couple of dozen nuclear Iskanders for Poland cause no other country will let US to have nukes on their, not officially anyway. Compared to US Poland is a small additional target.
I suspect that China is to blame for this.because they are not bound by any treaties and developing all kind missiles and it's inconvenient for US.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

I am surprised to see people here supporting Trump starting another nuclear arms race.
As for how much would it cost Russia to react to this then not much, All they need is a couple of dozen nuclear Iskanders for Poland cause no other country will let US to have nukes on their, not officially anyway. Compared to US Poland is a small additional target.
I suspect that China is to blame for this.because they are not bound by any treaties and developing all kind missiles and it's inconvenient for US.

How would a couple dozen more nukes expand Russia's current nuclear capacity to a level which it does not currently have? If it wants to turn any European country, or Europe as a whole, into a radioactive wasteland, it can do that today. It has about 4,000 nuclear warhead and upping that to 4,100 or 20,000 doesn't significantly increase their nuclear capabilities.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

OK, but the Russian military is underfunded and obsolete.

They won't be after this (and the recent destruction of the non-proliferation treaty that preceded it). Now Putin has justification for funneling billions into overhauling Russia's nuke and conventional capabilities.

What billions?

This for starters: Saudis Want to Make Their Own Weapons. Russia Is Eager to Help

Which evidently lead to this: Russia and Saudi Arabia 'sign $3bn arms deal' as King Salman visit shows how much relations have changed.

And then there is this: The Saudis still haven't locked in the massive arms deals Trump touted, and they're still talking to Russia about its advanced S-400 air defense system. That's a $15 Billion dollar system.

And then there's this: Russia & China cooking up joint projects worth more than $100bn

And this (from back in 2014, though, so it's likely still stalled by our sanctions): China, Russia sign $400 billion gas deal.

Etc.

It's a broke-assed country

Aside from the fact that they don't seem to know that, everything that has happened because of Trump is rapidly changing that.

and the ruble isn't an international base currency

Also changing: Russia and China to reduce use of US dollar in trade. And: Cutting out the US dollar: Russia & China boost national currencies trade.

You think Putin and his oligarchs are going to funnel some of the billions they've ripped off from their people back into the treasury for military spending or something?

No, I think--know, in fact, as it's already happened--that they are uniting with China on trade and everything else, basically and Saudi Arabia on weapons/oil, making an endrun around the "West" and pushing us and the EU out of the equation.

Brexit and Trump were both orchestrated by Putin. Both the UK and the EU will be struggling with the after-effects of Brexit for at least the next decade and if Trump wins again in 2020, then America is simply dead for at least as long or longer.

Meanwhile, Putin has allied Russia with China and Saudi Arabia on trade, weapons and energy and will soon be able to extricate the largest oil fields the world has yet seen as a result (a deal that was previously set to benefit the US and the UK--albeit via Exxon and BP--that got torpedoed by our sanctions over the Ukraine).

Trump has destroyed our NATO alliance; all but destroyed the Iran nuclear sanctions; destroyed the non-proliferation treaty with Russia; fuck knows what-all was going on with North Korea, but certainly something having to do with Putin's plans; etc., etc., etc.

It's as obvious as the nose on your face. Putin has pushed out the west and is now elevating Russia as the "management class" if you will of the new world order, with China and SA as his partners in trade and weaponry.

 

[Gun Nut]

Possibly, but this now gives the orange nazi the excuse to rush into mass production of new nukes.

Well, it's about time. It's possible that there's a square kilometer on the planet somewhere which your current batch of nukes couldn't destroy and a terrorist might be hiding there.

Also, I really worry that he'll use some war or threat of one to declate martial law, and set himself up as despot for life.

Dems can see this as a potential tactic, yet do nothing. You deserve everything you get due to inaction (or useless "play nice" actions)

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Also, I really worry that he'll use some war or threat of one to declate martial law, and set himself up as despot for life.

Dems can see this as a potential tactic, yet do nothing.

Other than vote, what are you suggesting we do?

 

[barbos]

I am surprised to see people here supporting Trump starting another nuclear arms race.
As for how much would it cost Russia to react to this then not much, All they need is a couple of dozen nuclear Iskanders for Poland cause no other country will let US to have nukes on their, not officially anyway. Compared to US Poland is a small additional target.
I suspect that China is to blame for this.because they are not bound by any treaties and developing all kind missiles and it's inconvenient for US.

How would a couple dozen more nukes expand Russia's current nuclear capacity to a level which it does not currently have? If it wants to turn any European country, or Europe as a whole, into a radioactive wasteland, it can do that today. It has about 4,000 nuclear warhead and upping that to 4,100 or 20,000 doesn't significantly increase their nuclear capabilities.

ICBMs can't hit Poland, Poland is just too close, and they are too expensive to waste on Poland. Idea behind Short range nukes is that they are very fast and hard to defend from. So US can use them for "preventive" strike on European part of Russia killing Putin. But Russia has Dead man's switch system, so ICBMs will be launched regardless. I doubt it will require a lot of money especially if you believe Trump that Russia violated that treaty by already developing banned missiles. In any case, I think Bolton is a dangerous degenerate who should be retired already.

 

[Gun Nut]

Also, I really worry that he'll use some war or threat of one to declate martial law, and set himself up as despot for life.

Dems can see this as a potential tactic, yet do nothing.

Other than vote, what are you suggesting we do?

It's been my suggestion that they use some of the same manipulative tactics that the other team uses.
The idea that playing nice is better than winning is foolish, when it comes to the game of politikball.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

ICBMs can't hit Poland, Poland is just too close, and they are too expensive to waste on Poland. Idea behind Short range nukes is that they are very fast and hard to defend from. So US can use them for "preventive" strike on European part of Russia killing Putin. But Russia has Dead man's switch system, so ICBMs will be launched regardless. I doubt it will require a lot of money especially if you believe Trump that Russia violated that treaty by already developing banned missiles. In any case, I think Bolton is a dangerous degenerate who should be retired already.

Oh ya, don't take anything I'm saying as an implication that I'm arguing there's some measure of sanity or competence in the US administration.

What I'm saying is that more nukes don't increase nuclear capabilities. If Russia shoots a nuke at a NATO country, Russia is a depopulated wasteland as are all of the NATO countries. More nukes doesn't change this equation. There's also no such thing as a "targeted" nuclear strike in a MAD situation. Shooting a short range nuke at Poland is the same as shooting an ICBM at Washington, DC, given the identical responses and counter responses these actions would lead to.

Making more nukes has zero value beyond lining the pockets of whichever company is making the nukes. It doesn't add to any strategic situation in any way.