Putin's Palace by Alexei Navalny

[Copernicus]

Alexei Navalny has returned to Russia, where his plane was diverted from its scheduled arrival airport to thwart plans of supporters to greet him and to immediately have him arrested. He is now in jail, as are roughly 4,000 people who were rounded up during protests by supporters. One of his most serious crimes (albeit not what he has been charged with) is that he released a major documentary on Vladimir Putin's life of corruption and abuse of power. This documentary is called "Putin's Palace" in English, and below is the version that is dubbed in English. It is two hours long, but well worth the effort. It does get into the massive palace that Putin has built in Krasnodar, but the beginning is a history lesson on how Putin rose to power from his origins as a fairly mediocre KGB agent stationed in East Germany before the Wall came down.

[YOUTUBE]T_tFSWZXKN0[/YOUTUBE]

For those like myself, who are interested in the original Russian version, you can get English subtitles, but they flash by pretty quickly:

[YOUTUBE]ipAnwilMncI&t=2753s&ab_channel=АлексейНавальный[/YOUTUBE]

 

[barbos]

It's too long. I saw some excerpts on CNN, it all looks computer animation. There was other video released by pro-kremlin sources.
They have not even started work inside "palace" - cement dust and trash inside. Also the owner of the palace was named.

 

[Copernicus]

It's too long. I saw some excerpts on CNN, it all looks computer animation. There was other video released by pro-kremlin sources.
They have not even started work inside "palace" - cement dust and trash inside. Also the owner of the palace was named.

You should watch the entire Navalny video in order to grasp the magnitude of the evidence he presents. According to him, they did manage to get one of their drones in to produce aerial footage, although the others were apparently intercepted. The palace grounds are huge, and there is clearly ongoing construction on some segments of it. Navalny says that his team got information on some of that construction. Apparently, some of the early construction was of extremely poor quality and had to be torn up and replaced. So it is easy for Russian TV propagandists to show "cement, dust, and trash inside" and claim that "they have not even started work inside the palace". It is far from clear that Putin himself is directly named as the owner of that property, and it is trivially easy to put forth a figurehead owner as part of the effort to discredit Navalny's exposure of the massive amount of construction. Perhaps you just accept what you see on Russian TV at face value, but I don't think you are that naïve. Given the massive amount of state security protecting the palace grounds, it is highly implausible that one of your oligarchs built and maintains it. Those guys are all loyal to, and dependent on, Tsar Vladimir IV, aka Vladimir the Poisoner. He would not take kindly to any of them having fancier digs than he has.

 

[barbos]

It's too long. I saw some excerpts on CNN, it all looks computer animation. There was other video released by pro-kremlin sources.
They have not even started work inside "palace" - cement dust and trash inside. Also the owner of the palace was named.

You should watch the entire Navalny video in order to grasp the magnitude of the evidence he presents. According to him, they did manage to get one of their drones in to produce aerial footage, although the others were apparently intercepted. The palace grounds are huge, and there is clearly ongoing construction on some segments of it. Navalny says that his team got information on some of that construction. Apparently, some of the early construction was of extremely poor quality and had to be torn up and replaced. So it is easy for Russian TV propagandists to show "cement, dust, and trash inside" and claim that "they have not even started work inside the palace". It is far from clear that Putin himself is directly named as the owner of that property, and it is trivially easy to put forth a figurehead owner as part of the effort to discredit Navalny's exposure of the massive amount of construction. Perhaps you just accept what you see on Russian TV at face value, but I don't think you are that naïve. Given the massive amount of state security protecting the palace grounds, it is highly implausible that one of your oligarchs built and maintains it. Those guys are all loyal to, and dependent on, Tsar Vladimir IV, aka Vladimir the Poisoner. He would not take kindly to any of them having fancier digs than he has.

It looks kinda complete outside on that youtube video. But it's complete wasteland inside.
It's pointless for Putin to build palaces for himself. He can't retire and live there, and can't live there permanently while in power (too far from Moscow)
So I actually believe they are telling the truth, more less. It's a hotel for oligarchs and owned by oligarch. Was corruption involved there, sure. Frankly, I am glad oligarchs started building in Russia, instead of buying palaces in Florida and London. Sanctions are working!

 

[barbos]

Here:
[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBcWdHe8j_g[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Copernicus]

Barbos, that 6-minute clip was really poor as a refutation of a two-hour documentary that even covered the extensive repair work you saw depicted in your video clip. As Navalny pointed out, some of the construction was so shoddy that they had to do extensive reconstruction work. Your video pretty much focused on that reconstruction work, not the entire complex, which was massive.

Why would Putin build such a palace? Why did the tsars build their palaces? Putin is going to remain in power the rest of his life. He even changed your constitution to ensure that. He engages in election fraud and murders his political opponents in a manner designed to terrorize any opposition. This is a monument to his reign that will last for generations.

If this were just some oligarch building a resort, it would not be all that massive, be guarded by the Russian FSO (Федеральная служба охраны, ФСО), which includes the SFB (Russian Presidential Security Service or Служба безопасности президента России) or be equipped with all of that electronic communication capability? All the drones but one that Navalny sent in were destroyed. If you bothered to watch Navalny's entire documentary instead of just looking at short propaganda pieces produced by state-controlled media, you might have a better idea of the massive scale of the Krasnodar complex. Putin reportedly spent 100 billion rubles to construct it, and Oligarch Arkady Rotenberg (the self-proclaimed owner and close friend of Putin since childhood) is reputed to be worth only $3.1 billion. Putin is widely regarded as being the wealthiest man on the planet. Rotenberg has profited from Putin's friendship, but not enough to afford something on this scale.

See:
 Putin's Palace
 Arkady Rotenberg
 Presidential Security Service (Russia)

 

[barbos]

I read about that particular documentary and saw some excerpts on CNN. They try to create an impression that it was finished. It is not finished and as that video shows it's utterly unfinished. Restricted air-space, they explained it because there are object nearby with restricted airspace.
Putin can't use that palace anymore. So what's the point? Real Tsar would not try to hide it.

Navalny is not 100% always accurate and even truthful. There was a documentary about other "oligarch", after which that oligarch decided to answer and explain what is what, and he pretty much destroyed that documentary in my view.
I am equally suspicious of both sides in this Navalny vs. Putin&Co.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I read about that particular documentary and saw some excerpts on CNN. They try to create an impression that it was finished. It is not finished and as that video shows it's utterly unfinished. Restricted air-space, they explained it because there are object nearby with restricted airspace.
Putin can't use that palace anymore. So what's the point? Real Tsar would not try to hide it.

Navalny is not 100% always accurate and even truthful. There was a documentary about other "oligarch", after which that oligarch decided to answer and explain what is what, and he pretty much destroyed that documentary in my view.
I am equally suspicious of both sides in this Navalny vs. Putin&Co.

BoTh SiDeS

 

[Elixir]

I read about that particular documentary and saw some excerpts on CNN. They try to create an impression that it was finished. It is not finished and as that video shows it's utterly unfinished. Restricted air-space, they explained it because there are object nearby with restricted airspace.
Putin can't use that palace anymore. So what's the point? Real Tsar would not try to hide it.

Navalny is not 100% always accurate and even truthful. There was a documentary about other "oligarch", after which that oligarch decided to answer and explain what is what, and he pretty much destroyed that documentary in my view.
I am equally suspicious of both sides in this Navalny vs. Putin&Co.

BoTh SiDeS

Right?

 

[barbos]

Yes, both sides. I agree with CNN correspondents I saw yesterday and who cover Russia for living who said that people are afraid of getting back 90s with that guy. Nalalny has no support in establishment, not even among established (old) opposition. People are tired of Putin but alternative is not that great.