Quack Quack Quack Kennedy

[Jimmy Higgins]

So he wants more placebos now too for vaccine approval.

The potential change outlined in a statement says all new vaccines will be required to undergo placebo testing, a procedure in which some people receive the vaccine and others receive an inert substance — such as a saline shot — before the results are compared.

“All new vaccines will undergo safety testing in placebo-controlled trials prior to licensure — a radical departure from past practices,” an HHS spokesperson told The Washington Post in response to questions about Kennedy’s comments on the measles vaccines and general vaccine policy.

Going break the economy, let's go and break medical care too.

“Except for the COVID vaccine, none of the vaccines on the CDC’s childhood recommended schedule was tested against an inert placebo, meaning we know very little about the actual risk profiles of these products,” HHS said in its statement.

There is a control group. It is called the unimmunized!

 

[thebeave]

The article is behind a paywall. Maybe I'm dumb like RFK Jr, , but I would have thought placebo shots were already part of vaccine testing.

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The article is behind a paywall. Maybe I'm dumb like RFK Jr, , but I would have thought placebo shots were already part of vaccine testing.

For new pathogens yes. For old pathogens, no.

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

This doesn't seem remotely relevant unless you are suggesting the potential that placebos can work in lieu of immunization of a particular virus? That'd seem impossible.

Also, the placebos aren't being suggested to test the effectiveness of the vaccine but rather the danger of it.

“HHS is now building surveillance systems that will accurately measure vaccine risks as well as benefits — because real science demands both transparency and accountability,” an HHS spokesperson told The Post.

 

[Jarhyn]

The article is behind a paywall. Maybe I'm dumb like RFK Jr, , but I would have thought placebo shots were already part of vaccine testing.

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

There don't need to be placebo shots for vaccine testing.

The placebo effect doesn't change from vaccine to vaccine. The placebo effect is constant based on information of assumption of effect, the method of delivery, and the severity of symptoms and tractability of those symptoms to mental state changes.

These are all well recorded. The known and studied effects for the context of the situation can just be consulted and subtracted from the numbers.

Not to mention that we have a great placebo control on vaccine effectiveness in the untreated population who are huffing horse dewormer.

 

[Axulus]

RFK Jr.’s Bats**t New Conspiracy About ‘Fetus Debris’ in Jabs Exposed

“There are populations like the Mennonites in Texas who are most afflicted, and they have religious objections to the vaccination because the MMR vaccine contains a lot of aborted fetus debris and DNA particles,” he said during a NewsNation town hall event Wednesday dedicated to Trump‘s first 100 days back in office.

RFK Jr.’s Bats**t New Conspiracy About ‘Fetus Debris’ in Jabs Exposed

The secretary of health and human services was defending his response to the deadly measles outbreak.

www.thedailybeast.com

This guy is fucking insane. There is zero "fetus debris" in any vaccine. The MMR vaccine was developed in the 60's in part through use of fetal cells from two elective abortions, but the actual shot administered doesn't contain any such cells. And the Vatican, for example, declared it permissible to take the MMR vaccine.

And that's not the only completely bonkers thing he said in just the last 24 hours:

RFK Jr. Pushes Conspiracy HHS Forced Kids Into Slavery

“We have ended HHS’s role as the principal vector in this country for child trafficking,” Kennedy said on Wednesday.

“During the Biden administration, HHS became a collaborator in child trafficking for sex and for slavery, and we have ended that,” he continued.

“We’re very aggressively going out and trying to find these 300,000 children that were lost by the Biden administration,” he said.

RFK Jr. Pushes Conspiracy HHS Forced Kids Into Slavery

Robert Kennedy Jr. has claimed he is shutting down an alleged government connection to child sex trafficking that has been widely discredited as a conspiracy theory. The Health and Human Services Secretary was referring to an unsubstantiated allegation made by Donald Trump that more than 300,000...

www.yahoo.com

This is just straight up QAnon nutbaggery

 

[Jarhyn]

RFK Jr.’s Bats**t New Conspiracy About ‘Fetus Debris’ in Jabs Exposed

“There are populations like the Mennonites in Texas who are most afflicted, and they have religious objections to the vaccination because the MMR vaccine contains a lot of aborted fetus debris and DNA particles,” he said during a NewsNation town hall event Wednesday dedicated to Trump‘s first 100 days back in office.

RFK Jr.’s Bats**t New Conspiracy About ‘Fetus Debris’ in Jabs Exposed

The secretary of health and human services was defending his response to the deadly measles outbreak.

www.thedailybeast.com

This guy is fucking insane. There is zero "fetus debris" in any vaccine. The MMR vaccine was developed in the 60's in part through use of fetal cells from two elective abortions, but the actual shot administered doesn't contain any such cells. And the Vatican, for example, declared it permissible to take the MMR vaccine.

And that's not the only completely bonkers thing he said in just the last 24 hours:

RFK Jr. Pushes Conspiracy HHS Forced Kids Into Slavery

“We have ended HHS’s role as the principal vector in this country for child trafficking,” Kennedy said on Wednesday.

“During the Biden administration, HHS became a collaborator in child trafficking for sex and for slavery, and we have ended that,” he continued.

“We’re very aggressively going out and trying to find these 300,000 children that were lost by the Biden administration,” he said.

RFK Jr. Pushes Conspiracy HHS Forced Kids Into Slavery

Robert Kennedy Jr. has claimed he is shutting down an alleged government connection to child sex trafficking that has been widely discredited as a conspiracy theory. The Health and Human Services Secretary was referring to an unsubstantiated allegation made by Donald Trump that more than 300,000...

www.yahoo.com

This is just straight up QAnon nutbaggery

That's the thing. This guy is the "Saul Goodman" of doctors.

He knows it's all bullshit but he puts on the clown makeup every day and performs for the circus because it pays well, and this circus has power.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Well, I'm sure glad RFK Jr. stopped the child trafficking program. I look forward to RFK Jr helping to return these children to their homes.

 

[scombrid]

The article is behind a paywall. Maybe I'm dumb like RFK Jr, , but I would have thought placebo shots were already part of vaccine testing.

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

No. Placebo is not mysterious. You seem to be misremembering the sham surgery study. Or perhaps you can explain how that would work for repairing an inguinal hernia or replacing a hip?

 

[thebeave]

The article is behind a paywall. Maybe I'm dumb like RFK Jr, , but I would have thought placebo shots were already part of vaccine testing.

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

No. Placebo is not mysterious. You seem to be misremembering the sham surgery study. Or perhaps you can explain how that would work for repairing an inguinal hernia or replacing a hip?

I don't seem to be misrembering it, even though it was over 20 years ago that I first became aware of it. What have I stated specifically that makes you say that? Consider this:

Randomized Surgical Trials and "Sham" Surgery: Relevance to Modern Orthopaedics and Minimally Invasive Surgery

Abstract​

Surgical techniques are constantly changing and evolving, though research trials supporting the value of a specific surgical intervention are often limited by the lack of a legitimate control group. In surgical trials, the use of a placebo, or a "sham" surgery, is controversial. This article explores the debate regarding the use of sham surgeries and summarizes the few surgical studies that have used them. Arguments for and against their use in research are presented.

In the field of orthopaedics, Moseley et al. in 2002 evaluated the effectiveness of arthroscopic surgery for arthritis of the knee.1 In this study, one group received a full arthroscopic debridement, one group underwent arthroscopic lavage with irrigation fluid alone, and the last group had three one-centimeter sham incisions but no actual procedure performed. This study concluded that arthroscopic surgeries done for advanced arthritis were no more effective than the sham operation.

The arthroscopic knee surgery was the one I was thinking of from back then. And I specifically said "some surgeries" in my statement, not just any random surgical procedure, e.g. inguinal hernia or hip replacement like you brought up.

And yes, placebos are still mysterious to a large degree, like anything associated with brain functioning:

The Placebo Effect: Fake Treatment, Real Response

Causes of the Placebo Effect​

Although researchers know that the placebo effect is real, they do not yet fully understand how and why it occurs. Various factors might contribute to this phenomenon.

There is a general similarity, at least with regard to possible placebo related effects, between receiving a vaccine injection and a minor surgical incision in that both involve a medical specialist creating a breach/penetration of skin tissue.

 

[scombrid]

This study concluded that arthroscopic surgeries done for advanced arthritis were no more effective than the sham operation.

I know that study and figured that's the one you were referencing. And of course it is. That just means that neither works and that arthroscopic surgery for advanced arthritis is a waste of money. You aren't misremembering then, just misunderstanding what the implications of the study were.

Placebo can't fix anything. At best it can reduce cortisol in people that believe it is doing something.

Placebo in the context of vaccine trials is just a control group for rate of adverse events. Kennedy is an asshole and so are all the TrumpSplainers running interference for his dumb shit.

 

[scombrid]

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

This statement by you implies that the placebo had a meaningful effect. The study did not conclude this. The study concluded that neither did anything.

 

[Axulus]

RFK Jr. redirects $500 million of money from a pandemic preparedness fund and into research on a flu vaccine using 1970s technology. This guy is turning out to be one of the most insidious people in this clown cabinet.

While some experts were pleased that Kennedy had supported any vaccine project, they said the May 1 announcement contravened sound scientific policy, appeared arbitrary, and raised the kinds of questions about conflicts of interest that have dogged many of President Donald Trump’s actions.

Focusing vast resources on a single vaccine candidate “is a little like going to the Kentucky Derby and putting all your money on one horse,” said William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University professor and past president of the National Foundation for Infectious Diseases. “In science we normally put money on a number of different horses because we can’t be entirely sure who’s going to win.”

Others were mystified by the decision, since the candidate vaccine uses technology that was largely abandoned in the 1970s and eschews techniques developed in recent decades through funding from the Department of Health and Human Services and the Defense Department.

Trump Team’s $500 Million Bet on Old Vaccine Technology Puzzles Scientists - KFF Health News

Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s HHS said an enormous, noncompetitive flu vaccine development grant to two favored NIH leaders would ensure “transparency, effectiveness, and comprehensive preparedness.” But their vaccine is in early stages, relies on old technology, and is just one of scores of...

kffhealthnews.org

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The article is behind a paywall. Maybe I'm dumb like RFK Jr, , but I would have thought placebo shots were already part of vaccine testing.

As I recall years ago, it was discovered that for some surgeries you could get similar results if you just made an incision and then sewed it up as you would with actually going through with the complete surgical procedure. Placebos are a mysterious thing.

No. Placebo is not mysterious. You seem to be misremembering the sham surgery study. Or perhaps you can explain how that would work for repairing an inguinal hernia or replacing a hip?

I don't seem to be misrembering it, even though it was over 20 years ago that I first became aware of it. What have I stated specifically that makes you say that? Consider this:

Randomized Surgical Trials and "Sham" Surgery: Relevance to Modern Orthopaedics and Minimally Invasive Surgery

That isn't how the immune system works. You can't create antibodies from exposure to a saline solution to protect against a specific pathogen.

And again, RFK isn't suggesting this because he is checking on vaccine effectiveness, but rather the danger, of which the saline solution would actually be effective in determining as the placebo would probably have a likewise impact as the vaccine itself.

 

[unapologetic]

I'm reading a book from the library.
"Star Talk with Neil deGrasse Tyson"
Published in 2016 by National Geographic.
There are a bunch of quotes by verious people.
Some surprising eco-friendly quotes by "Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Attorney and president of Waterkeeper Alliance"
WTF, was this before the brain worm?

 

[ZiprHead]

I'm reading a book from the library.
"Star Talk with Neil deGrasse Tyson"
Published in 2016 by National Geographic.
There are a bunch of quotes by verious people.
Some surprising eco-friendly quotes by "Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Attorney and president of Waterkeeper Alliance"
WTF, was this before the brain worm?

He used to be a pretty good environmental lawyer. I occasionally listened to his podcast back in the teens. Then he went apeshit.

 

[crazyfingers]

Covid vaccine no longer recommended for health kids and pregnant women.

The Quack bypassed usual decision process. Makes abitrary decision contrary to the evidence.

Kennedy offered no scientific evidence to justify the change to the recommendations.

But experts say the shift will have devastating consequences, particularly for pregnant women and their babies. Both are considered to be at higher risk of severe complications of Covid-19 infections. Studies have found that Covid-19 vaccination reduces the risk of hospitalization for pregnant women and infants younger than 6 months.

“This runs contrary to what we know about the safety as well as the benefits of Covid-19 vaccination for both young children and pregnant women,” said a person familiar with the CDC’s deliberations on its vaccine recommendations, who asked not to be named for fear of retaliation.

“Under administrative law, to avoid being found arbitrary and capricious an agency’s decision has to meet certain criteria, including explaining the agency’s fact finding, a connection between the facts and the decisions, etc.,” Reiss wrote. “A one minute video on Twitter doesn’t quite get you there.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/05/27/health/covid-vaccine-pregnant-women-children-recommendation

 

[Axulus]

RFK Jrs "special advisor" posted this today.

 

[Axulus]

Surprise! New “MAHA” Report Is Full of Junk Science and Fake Studies​

The latest Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s “Make America Healthy Again”​

The secretary of health and human services brags that the report, released last week, is based on “gold-standard” science drawn from over 500 studies and other sources. But in reality, NOTUS found, its citations are error-ridden, with missing links, incorrect conclusions, and sometimes even made-up studies.

Appears to be written, at least in part, by AI with hallucinated studies. This is the "gold-standard" we can expect from RFK Jr. going forward as vaccines are pulled en-masse and research halted.

Surprise! New “MAHA” Report Is Full of Junk Science and Fake Studies

The latest Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s “Make America Healthy Again”

newrepublic.com

 

[TomC]

So, how is the Measles virus doing here in the Trump world?


Last I knew, it was making a big comeback.
Tom

 

[crazyfingers]

So, how is the Measles virus doing here in the Trump world?


Last I knew, it was making a big comeback.
Tom

The Quack goes to Texas where the outbreak is and tells people to eat healthy. Hardy says anything about maybe gettimg vaccinated. What a stupid shit.