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Question About Syria

Assad was eventually going to win anyway (once ISIS was beat). The repercussion would be that the US again uses the Kurds to fight its battles and then abandons them.

I heard someone say that Assad pulls a chemical attack whenever Tump threatens to leave Syria.

At first that made no sense to me, then I remembered...the Kurds are Assad allies, at least nominally. So, by supporting the Kurds, we're supporting Assad.
 
Assad was eventually going to win anyway (once ISIS was beat). The repercussion would be that the US again uses the Kurds to fight its battles and then abandons them.

I heard someone say that Assad pulls a chemical attack whenever Tump threatens to leave Syria.

At first that made no sense to me, then I remembered...the Kurds are Assad allies, at least nominally. So, by supporting the Kurds, we're supporting Assad.

Why would you believe that the Kurds are even nominally Assad's allies? They are Sunni Muslims, and Assad is aligned with the Shiites. Moreover, they are trying to form a homeland out of territory that straddles Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. So they have a lot of enemies, and that is one reason why they are trying to cultivate a strong relationship with the US.
 
Assad was eventually going to win anyway (once ISIS was beat). The repercussion would be that the US again uses the Kurds to fight its battles and then abandons them.

I heard someone say that Assad pulls a chemical attack whenever Tump threatens to leave Syria.

At first that made no sense to me, then I remembered...the Kurds are Assad allies, at least nominally. So, by supporting the Kurds, we're supporting Assad.

Why would you believe that the Kurds are even nominally Assad's allies? They are Sunni Muslims, and Assad is aligned with the Shiites. Moreover, they are trying to form a homeland out of territory that straddles Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. So they have a lot of enemies, and that is one reason why they are trying to cultivate a strong relationship with the US.

Because the regime pays their civil servants, and Assad's statues etc. have not been torn down in the Kurdish areas.
 
There is hope. From inside a walled city protected by armed guards the pope is preying constantly for peace in Syria.
 
As an atheist I don't have a dog in the fight, but if Assad is deposed, what is going to happen to the Christians in Syria?
 
Really? You don't have a dog in the fight, just because the people who might die have a different religion from you?
 
Why would you believe that the Kurds are even nominally Assad's allies? They are Sunni Muslims, and Assad is aligned with the Shiites. Moreover, they are trying to form a homeland out of territory that straddles Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. So they have a lot of enemies, and that is one reason why they are trying to cultivate a strong relationship with the US.

Because the regime pays their civil servants, and Assad's statues etc. have not been torn down in the Kurdish areas.

First of all, you should provide a source for your information. That said, things are a bit more complicated than occasional cooperation between Assad and Syrian Kurds. Both have made deals on a few occasions when their interests aligned, as they have fought against Turkish incursions into Syrian territory. Such deals do not make them allies in the broader scheme of things, since the ultimate goal of the Kurds is to wrest control of Syrian territory from Assad.

For a different perspective on your so-called "alliance", see Is Assad really an ally to Kurds in Syria?
 
As an atheist I don't have a dog in the fight, but if Assad is deposed, what is going to happen to the Christians in Syria?

As bad as Assad is, without Assad a fundamentalist Sunni Syria would be a lot worse. The religious/ethnic minorities support Assad's autocracy because without it they'd be persecuted by the majority.

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Russian journalists found a boy who was on the video of chemical attack. He says he was paid to participate in that video, he was not poisoned in any way. Of course one can say that now that place is under Assad control they are afraid to talk but the boy and his father both look well and smiling.
 
I would think that many on Trump's team would want to avoid Trump directly talking to Assad. But this would be a good thing.
 
Really? You don't have a dog in the fight, just because the people who might die have a different religion from you?

Persians, Arabs, Kurds and the rest have been cutting each other's throats for centuries. The Iraq-Iran war. The Palestinian civil war. The Lebanese civil war. The Jordan-Palestinian civil war. Turks vs Kurds.

The only way to describe it is shit hole. Not widely covered, the opposition has been reported using chemical weapons.

The historical culture is not one of compromise. When the Ottoman Empire finally fell it left a power vacuums.

No amount of caring or political maneuvering on our part is going to change centuries of ethnic, tribal, and sectarian hostility and violence. They are making their own hell.
 
Why would you believe that the Kurds are even nominally Assad's allies? They are Sunni Muslims, and Assad is aligned with the Shiites. Moreover, they are trying to form a homeland out of territory that straddles Iran, Iraq, Syria, and Turkey. So they have a lot of enemies, and that is one reason why they are trying to cultivate a strong relationship with the US.

Because the regime pays their civil servants, and Assad's statues etc. have not been torn down in the Kurdish areas.

First of all, you should provide a source for your information. That said, things are a bit more complicated than occasional cooperation between Assad and Syrian Kurds. Both have made deals on a few occasions when their interests aligned, as they have fought against Turkish incursions into Syrian territory. Such deals do not make them allies in the broader scheme of things, since the ultimate goal of the Kurds is to wrest control of Syrian territory from Assad.

For a different perspective on your so-called "alliance", see Is Assad really an ally to Kurds in Syria?

I never said they were lovey dovey. They are more allied than not, that's pretty clear. We were once allied with the Soviets, remember? The enemy of my enemy etc.

But the point, again, is that that reality supplies Assad with a motive to manipulate Trump into continuing the US presence in Syria. The only problem is that he has to use his resources to deal with the Turks; we won't.

My original source was years ago and I don't recall exactly, and it was incidental to reading about the YPG, who are practicing their own form of democracy.

Nevertheless...

https://ahvalnews.com/syria/syrias-assad-gained-us-support-kurds-syria-analyst

For the full length of this war Assad has financially underwritten the Rojava statelet, paying civil servants, teachers, local government administrators, and all other public sector employees. There was no blitz of PYD-held areas, as happened in rebel-controlled zones. Just as when IS (Islamic State) built its caliphate in the east, the regime avoided bombing, evidently Assad finds the PYD project to be in his interest.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...rin-to-aid-kurds-against-turkey-idUSKCN1G41WG

ANKARA/BEIRUT (Reuters) - Pro-Syrian government forces entered Syria’s northwestern Afrin region on Tuesday to help a Kurdish militia there fend off a Turkish assault, raising the prospect of a wider escalation of the conflict.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-us-gets-the-kurds-wrong8212again-1392333561

the State Department accuses Syrian Kurds of cooperating with Assad. Here, there is some truth. The Assad regime controls pockets of Qamishli. Syrian Kurds fly to Damascus and Latakia to attend university. And Assad pays salaries to some civil servants who moonlight
All I could get, it's behind a pay wall...

https://www.juancole.com/2018/01/trump-syrian-turkey.html

When the attempted revolution broke out in 2011, Bashar al-Assad went up to Hasaka in the northeast and offered to restore citizenship to the Kurds if they would back his government instead of rebelling. The Kurds showed little interest in the offer. For them, the outbreak of revolution was a chance to stake their claim to a federal Kurdish ethnic province, which they call Rojava. Some hope that eventually it will become independent but at least they say they are willing to live under Syrian government rule. But, they insist, Syria has to be reformulated as a federal state with strong states’ rights instead of remaining a French-style unitary state.

The ambiguity of the Kurdish position, in seeking more autonomy from Damascus but declining to join in attempts to overthrow the government, is underlined by Kurdish relations with the Arab rebels. The latter moved toward Muslim fundamentalism, sometimes of an extreme sort, which turns out to have a latent element of virulent Arab racism. So the Arab rebels, especially the al-Qaeda affiliate and ISIL, attacked the Kurds. And the Kurds often made common cause with the Syrian Arab Army of al-Assad against them.

So what the YPG in Afrin is attempting to do is to revive that alliance with Damascus. It is alleging that the Arab rebels Turkey sent in to Afrin as guerrilla fighters against the Kurds are al-Qaeda, and depicting the Turkish invasion as a foreign occupation. In other words, the Kurds are ironically working the keyword political vocabulary of Arab nationalism, for which foreign colonial occupation is the supreme evil and the occupied are virtually saints.
 
Really? You don't have a dog in the fight, just because the people who might die have a different religion from you?

Persians, Arabs, Kurds and the rest have been cutting each other's throats for centuries. The Iraq-Iran war. The Palestinian civil war. The Lebanese civil war. The Jordan-Palestinian civil war. Turks vs Kurds.

The only way to describe it is shit hole. Not widely covered, the opposition has been reported using chemical weapons.

The historical culture is not one of compromise. When the Ottoman Empire finally fell it left a power vacuums.

No amount of caring or political maneuvering on our part is going to change centuries of ethnic, tribal, and sectarian hostility and violence. They are making their own hell.

What a convenient attitude. I suppose it is just irrelevant coincidence that the troops of Russia and America, and Europe are stationed in "their own hell"? And have been, in various locations and respects, with various different pretexts, for the entirety of the time span you describe?
 
Europe went through a long process from Roman era tribalism to city states with monarchs to kingdoms to parliaments and limits on monarchs to modern democracy.

There was centuries of political thought in the American colonies leading to a successful revolution and stable government.

No such process existed in North Africa, near and far east including Russia.

One of our greatest American flaws is to only see the rest of the world as if everybody was like us. The Neo-Cons thought invading Iraq would be like liberating France in WWII. The peace in Iraq was short lives. Political, religious, and ethnic factions formed militias and killed each other for no good reason. A major faction did not participate in the elections out of spite and a no compromise position. Kurds pulled back into what they continue to hope will be an independent state.

Certainly children born into it today are innocent victims. That being said the hell they are in is brought on by all the historical rivalries. Saudi Arabia rose out of tribal conflict and was kept out of Iran and Syria by a European presence.Ataturk had a vision of Turkey as a secular democracy, the vision failed.

When it became clear the Muslim Brotherhood would win in Egypt, Clinton backed off on pressing for democracy in Egypt.

In the news yesterday, the leader of Turkey is fomenting Muslim religious violence against Israel.

There is a snowball's chance in the Sinai of peace in the region. Hatred at the street level has mestasticised.

Ataturk's vision of a secular democratic Turkey has failed.

While in contrast regardless of valid criticisms of Israel, the Palestine Jews overcame factionalism giving rise to Israel. Within the borders stability and a high degree of civil and religious liberty. Go figure. The threat to the region Israel presents is a secular democracy which none of the regional power elite want.

Black Hawk Down, we tried to bring aid to Somalia and paid a price. Reagan sent Marine peacekeepers to Beirut and the barracks got bombed. My brother who was a Marine was on his way home when it happened.

So, in your studied opinion what should be done? Voluntary NGOs trying to make a difference are killed and kidnapped. Vaccinations are rejected as a western conspiracy in some areas. It is easy to moralize and shed tears from over here. Contrary to progressive cultural PC, all cultures are not equal.
 
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