RACISM SOLVED on IIDB! "This whole business about whether someone had ancestors who were a slave or slaveholder is just ridiculous. It means nothing."

[Janice Rael]

"This whole business about whether someone had ancestors who were a slave or slaveholder is just ridiculous. It means nothing, other than a mildly curious footnote in someone's ancestry that might make for interesting cocktail party conversation. But that's it." - IIDB forums user @thebeave - veteran member of IIDB dot org and a Capital-A Atheist from California says so.




If only the Atheists would use more than just a drop of that Reason they're always marketing about. l

 

[Harry Bosch]

"This whole business about whether someone had ancestors who were a slave or slaveholder is just ridiculous. It means nothing, other than a mildly curious footnote in someone's ancestry that might make for interesting cocktail party conversation. But that's it." - IIDB forums user @thebeave - veteran member of IIDB dot org and a Capital-A Atheist from California says so.

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If only the Atheists would use more than just a drop of that Reason they're always marketing about. l

Oh boy! I assume that this is going to be some kind of attack on Harris? I'm not sure about the context here. However, I'll come out and say that I will judge Harris on her beliefs and actions today. I will not judge her on whether or not she had ancestors that were slave owners or victims of slavery. If I'm misunderstanding your thread, I apologize in advance!

 

[Janice Rael]

Oh boy! I assume that this is going to be some kind of attack on Harris? I'm not sure about the context here. However, I'll come out and say that I will judge Harris on her beliefs and actions today. I will not judge her on whether or not she had ancestors that were slave owners or victims of slavery. If I'm misunderstanding your thread, I apologize in advance!

I made a new thread outside of the Harris thread, actually, in order to highlight what happens with only one drop of Reason.

Now, if I am mistaken, and, racism is not yet solved? Then perhaps it is this Atheist who is wrong.

 

[Janice Rael]

Did you know that people would rather DIE than discuss Bad Atheist Marketing with me?

 

[Janice Rael]

I do wish to expose the racism inherent in this forum, but that's just gravy.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Oh boy! I assume that this is going to be some kind of attack on Harris? I'm not sure about the context here. However, I'll come out and say that I will judge Harris on her beliefs and actions today. I will not judge her on whether or not she had ancestors that were slave owners or victims of slavery. If I'm misunderstanding your thread, I apologize in advance!

I made a new thread outside of the Harris thread, actually, in order to highlight what happens with only one drop of Reason.

Now, if I am mistaken, and, racism is not yet solved? Then perhaps it is this Atheist who is wrong.

Racism is definitely not solved! It persists. However, not sure about the slave owner vs non slave owner background as a determining factor. Was grandpa was non-white. He was the most biased person against black people of anyone that I've ever met. In his entire life, he never met a black person! Not one. No slavery in our background. He didn't like white people either (or really anyone who didn't come from the res.)

 

[Harry Bosch]

Did you know that people would rather DIE than discuss Bad Atheist Marketing with me?

What is "bad atheist marketing"?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Did you know that people would rather DIE than discuss Bad Atheist Marketing with me?

What is "bad atheist marketing"?

Trying to sell your soul to multiple buyers. I'm not proud of it, but I needed the cash in a hurry.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

If you go back far enough, every one of us has slave-owning ancestors. I'm just not running around creating statues of my Viking ancestors with plaques under them stating they were perfect knights, without blemishes, chivalrous and using public funds partially from their pillaged, raped, conquered peoples to maintain those lies.

 

[Harry Bosch]

If you go back far enough, every one of us has slave-owning ancestors. I'm just not running around creating statues of my Viking ancestors with plaques under them stating they were perfect knights, without blemishes, chivalrous and using public funds partially from their pillaged, raped, conquered peoples to maintain those lies.

Good post. Very much agree. There were actually American Indians who shamefully owned African American slaves. interesting and sad fact, there are more slaves today than at any time in history. They are illegal slaves in that no country supports slavery in their laws today, but that dosn't help the actual slaves today. But yea, lets also not celebrate the slave owners with statutes! Having said that, I still don't understand what this has to do with Harris!

 

[TomC]

Having said that, I still don't understand what this has to do with Harris!

Pretty much this.
I wouldn't care if someone running for office was the great great great grandchild of Lee or Washington. It's them I'm looking at.
Tom

 

[thebeave]

"This whole business about whether someone had ancestors who were a slave or slaveholder is just ridiculous. It means nothing, other than a mildly curious footnote in someone's ancestry that might make for interesting cocktail party conversation. But that's it." - IIDB forums user @thebeave - veteran member of IIDB dot org and a Capital-A Atheist from California says so.

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If only the Atheists would use more than just a drop of that Reason they're always marketing about. l

What exactly is your point? That people who have slaveowners in their background are morally impure and don't deserve our respect (or vote)? Or conversely, that those without slaveowners in their ancestry are more morally pure and do deserve our respect (and vote)? It doesn't hold water with me.

More than 100 U.S. leaders – lawmakers, presidents, governors and justices – have slaveholding ancestors, a Reuters examination found.

Among 536 members of the last sitting Congress, Reuters determined at least 100 descend from slaveholders. Of that group, more than a quarter of the Senate – 28 members – can trace their families to at least one slaveholder.

Those lawmakers from the 117th session of Congress are Democrats and Republicans alike. They include some of the most influential politicians in America: Republican senators Mitch McConnell, Lindsey Graham, Tom Cotton and James Lankford, and Democrats Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth, Jeanne Shaheen and Maggie Hassan.

In addition, President Joe Biden and every living former U.S. president – except Donald Trump – are direct descendants of slaveholders: Jimmy Carter, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton and – through his white mother’s side – Barack Obama. Trump’s ancestors came to America after slavery was abolished.

Two of the nine sitting U.S. Supreme Court justices – Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch – also have direct ancestors who enslaved people.

 

[Politesse]

I do wish to expose the racism inherent in this forum, but that's just gravy.

That's how I got sorta fired/quit as a moderator at another secular forum. I'm sure you can imagine the situation.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you go back far enough, every one of us has slave-owning ancestors. I'm just not running around creating statues of my Viking ancestors with plaques under them stating they were perfect knights, without blemishes, chivalrous and using public funds partially from their pillaged, raped, conquered peoples to maintain those lies.

Exactly. We should not be guilty over who are ancestors are or what they did. We are only responsible for who we are.

But looking up to slave owners is something people are doing now, not an act of their ancestors. The statues are despicable.

 

[Gospel]

The distinction is purely cultural. There's nothing more to it than that. As a Jamaican, while Jamaica has had its issues with slavery, I have a different cultural upbringing compared to African Americans. Anyone who makes it about anything else is uninformed.

 

[Gospel]

no country supports slavery in their laws today

It's still supported in US law.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

The U.S. prison system is disproportionately filled with Black people. While I’m not claiming that slavery is the sole reason for this, it certainly isn't a good look.

 

[thebeave]

If you go back far enough, every one of us has slave-owning ancestors. I'm just not running around creating statues of my Viking ancestors with plaques under them stating they were perfect knights, without blemishes, chivalrous and using public funds partially from their pillaged, raped, conquered peoples to maintain those lies.

Exactly. We should not be guilty over who are ancestors are or what they did. We are only responsible for who we are.

But looking up to slave owners is something people are doing now, not an act of their ancestors. The statues are despicable.

What statues specifically are you referring to? Statues honoring someone specifically because they were a slaveowner? Certainly that is despicable.

Or are you referring to a statue of someone who did some great things but also owned slaves (e.g. Thomas Jefferson)?

 

[Politesse]

Or are you referring to a statue of someone who did some great things but also owned slaves (e.g. Thomas Jefferson)?

"Also owned slaves" is a hell of a way to describe raping and impregnating your half sister, willfully working to oppose abolition of enslaved people, and popularizing the pseudoscience of race essentialism as an excuse for delaying the end of that abhorrent practice.

 

[Gospel]

Or are you referring to a statue of someone who did some great things but also owned slaves (e.g. Thomas Jefferson)?

"Also owned slaves" is a hell of a way to describe raping and impregnating your half sister, willfully working to oppose abolition of enslaved people, and popularizing the pseudoscience of race essentialism as an excuse for delaying the end of that abhorrent practice.

Yeah, the same people who'd call Bernie Sanders a hypocrite for being a millionaire while advocating for the poor would also call Thomas Jefferson a hypoc..... someone who did some great things.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you go back far enough, every one of us has slave-owning ancestors. I'm just not running around creating statues of my Viking ancestors with plaques under them stating they were perfect knights, without blemishes, chivalrous and using public funds partially from their pillaged, raped, conquered peoples to maintain those lies.

Exactly. We should not be guilty over who are ancestors are or what they did. We are only responsible for who we are.

But looking up to slave owners is something people are doing now, not an act of their ancestors. The statues are despicable.

What statues specifically are you referring to? Statues honoring someone specifically because they were a slaveowner? Certainly that is despicable.

Or are you referring to a statue of someone who did some great things but also owned slaves (e.g. Thomas Jefferson)?

The main dispute is over "Civil War" memorials. Most really are symbols of oppression and should be removed. (Although if the idiots want to fund a museum for them somewhere I won't object.)