Rape victim ordered to pay her abuser child support

[Jimmy Higgins]

I'm just wondering why the initial take on the situation.

I'm not one of the people claiming to know enough about what happened to pass judgement.

Beyond calling the mother a "scumbag" of course. Granted, you did call the father a "scumbag" as well.

I'm in the opposite camp. I don't know enough about this particular family drama.

You are ignoring the issue of a judge ruling the mother needed to pay support and the father was given full custody... then changed their mind and took away all custody rights of the father. There pretty much nothing new now that could exist in the record that couldn't have been available before this became public.

 

[Toni]

One detail we had from the jump is that it was statutory rape.

Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy.

Tom

You definitely do not know that.

I don't know that Abelseth exists.

I'm just going by the story posted by OP.
Tom

Yes, of course you do know that she exists from the several articles linked in this thread.

 

[TomC]

One detail we had from the jump is that it was statutory rape.

Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy.

Tom

You definitely do not know that.

I don't know that Abelseth exists.

I'm just going by the story posted by OP.
Tom

No, you are not. Because a bartender may simply serve someone without having to be convinced of anything.

Yes I am.

If a person in a bar with an age restriction of 21 were holding a drink, I might not assume that they were 21. But I wouldn't think it at all likely that they were 16.

Why isn't anyone suing the bar Abelseth was posing in as legal age? My best guess is that she's a competent liar. She was drinking in an establishment with a minimum age of 21. Barnes believed she was at least 18.

What's hard to understand about that?
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

One detail we had from the jump is that it was statutory rape.

Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy.

Tom

You definitely do not know that.

I don't know that Abelseth exists.

I'm just going by the story posted by OP.
Tom

No, you are not. Because a bartender may simply serve someone without having to be convinced of anything.

Yes I am.

If a person in a bar with an age restriction of 21 were holding a drink, I might not assume that they were 21. But I wouldn't think it at all likely that they were 16.

You are shtiging the goal posts. You wrote "Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy."

Why isn't anyone suing the bar Abelseth was posing in as legal age?

WTF?

My best guess is that she's a competent liar. She was drinking in an establishment with a minimum age of 21. Barnes believed she was at least 18.

What's hard to understand about that?
Tom

Nothing. Your double standard is clear - you can make deductions based on what you interpret in a news story while you call out others for doing the same thing. And all of that in an effort (unintended or not) to obscure that basic fact that the Abelseth is the victim of a statutory rape. You are the only one who knows why you feel the need to offer apologia for a statutory rapist who has allegedly sexually abused his teenage DAUGHTER, but I think t this point, you really should stop digging in this deep chasm you have already created.

 

[TomC]

"Do you think bartenders are skilled at determining which patrons are of age?"

It's a legal requirement. The generic term for that is "carding". They are required by law to determine whether or not patrons are old enough to buy alcohol.
That's 21.

If the establishment had 16 year olds with alcohol they're a big problem.

And selling or giving alcohol to someone underage is also a crime.
Tom

 

[Toni]

"Do you think bartenders are skilled at determining which patrons are of age?"

It's a legal requirement. The generic term for that is "carding". They are required by law to determine whether or not patrons are old enough to buy alcohol.
That's 21.

If the establishment had 16 year olds with alcohol they're a big problem.

And selling or giving alcohol to someone underage is also a crime.
Tom

Usually punishable by a fine.

 

[Gospel]

I'm just wondering why the initial take on the situation.

I'm not one of the people claiming to know enough about what happened to pass judgement.

I'm in the opposite camp. I don't know enough about this particular family drama.

That's where the opposing camps are in this thread. The people convinced that they know enough to judge and those of us who don't think we know enough to judge.
Tom

Bruh,

Throughout this thread my only input has been that it was statutory rape and the state of Louisiana seemed to overlook that (until now) even after having hard evidence (Mothers age, Fathers Age & the Childs age) on record. What else do I need to know to ask why the state didn't enforce its law? asking the question is defacto an admission that I DO NOT KNOW.

 

[TomC]

You are shtiging the goal posts. You wrote "Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy."

How am I shifting the goalposts?

Abelseth was drinking in an establishment with a minimum age of 21 to drink.
Barnes assumed she was at least 18.

I'm not shifting goalposts. I'm keeping them the same for everyone. She shouldn't have pretended to be of age. He should have been more careful picking up women in a bar. They shouldn't have made a baby.

The list of scumbag behavior here is kinda long. And that's all before the custody battle. Then it gets worse.

Tom

 

[TomC]

Throughout this thread my only input has been that it was statutory rape and the state of Louisiana seemed to overlook that

The answer to that isn't hard to see.

Abelseth didn't report the "rape" for years. She was legally of age when she got around to reporting it. And that was only when the community and Barnes found about the resulting child and a custody battle resulted.

Tom

 

[Gospel]

Throughout this thread my only input has been that it was statutory rape and the state of Louisiana seemed to overlook that

The answer to that isn't hard to see.

Abelseth didn't report the "rape" for years. She was legally of age when she got around to reporting it. And that was only when the community and Barnes found about the resulting child and a custody battle resulted.

Tom

I'm not talking about rape in the way you seem to be thinking. I'm talking about ***STATUTORY*** rape as defined by Louisiana law. I doubt family court handle things the same as criminal courts (pardon me if I have the name wrong because I'm no expert) but when family court comes across a crime I somehow doubt they don't have the power to report said crime or take action themselves. I'm just wondering why the statutory rape went ignored.

 

[Toni]

Throughout this thread my only input has been that it was statutory rape and the state of Louisiana seemed to overlook that

The answer to that isn't hard to see.

Abelseth didn't report the "rape" for years. She was legally of age when she got around to reporting it. And that was only when the community and Barnes found about the resulting child and a custody battle resulted.

Tom

Why the scare quotes around rape?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You are shtiging the goal posts. You wrote "Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy."

How am I shifting the goalposts?

Abelseth was drinking in an establishment with a minimum age of 21 to drink.
Barnes assumed she was at least 18.

Are you alleging Barnes helped an underaged person get drunk?

I'm not shifting goalposts. I'm keeping them the same for everyone. She shouldn't have pretended to be of age. He should have been more careful picking up women in a bar. They shouldn't have made a baby.

Are you saying she should have had an abortion?

The list of scumbag behavior here is kinda long. And that's all before the custody battle. Then it gets worse.

Details are limited, except the ones TomC likes to be morally outraged over.

The father was creepy and porking girls much younger than him, the mother was drinking illegally, and the Judge who had given the father full custody changed his mind and is now not giving him ANY custody. TomC feels what matters most here isn't the apparent failure of justice that was only stopped due to public outcry, but that the girl was leading the creepy guy on and they are scumbags.

 

[Toni]

Throughout this thread my only input has been that it was statutory rape and the state of Louisiana seemed to overlook that

The answer to that isn't hard to see.

Abelseth didn't report the "rape" for years. She was legally of age when she got around to reporting it. And that was only when the community and Barnes found about the resulting child and a custody battle resulted.

Tom

I'm not talking about rape in the way you seem to be thinking. I'm talking about ***STATUTORY*** rape as defined by Louisiana law. I doubt family court handle things the same as criminal courts (pardon me if I have the name wrong because I'm no expert) but when family court comes across a crime I somehow doubt they don't have the power to report said crime or take action themselves. I'm just wondering why the statutory rape went ignored.

That's an extremely good question that none of the articles I found shed any light on.

Like most rape victims, Abelseth did not report the assault immediately. And then assumed because she did not report it the next day, she wouldn't be able to file charges. Years later, when she obtained an attorney, presumably related to child custody arrangements, the attorney failed to inform her that since the child was conceived during a rape, the man's parental rights could be terminated, even if he was never formally charged. The burden of proof was met that it was at a minimum, statutory rape. She was 16 and he was 30 when the child was conceived. It is not hard to understand why a 16 year old might not be well acquainted with the laws regarding her rights. If she was drinking underage, that was already a violation of state law. Our culture does a great deal to blame rape victims, regardless of the circumstances or their ages. We see that here in this thread where a 16 year old who cannot sign a contract or apply for a loan or legally consume alcoholic beverages is being held to an adult standard by some posters here, although neither legally or developmentally an adult.

Most rape victims do not report their rape. In fact, the incidence of reporting DECREASED between 2017 and 2018. It isn't difficult to understand why. Far less than half of all reported rapes result in arrests. Far fewer result in convictions and of those convicted, not all serve any time at all.

 

[laughing dog]

You are shtiging the goal posts. You wrote "Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy."

How am I shifting the goalposts?

Abelseth was drinking in an establishment with a minimum age of 21 to drink.
Barnes assumed she was at least 18.

I'm not shifting goalposts. [/quote] You first wrote "Abseleth managed to convince a bartender". You don't know that. You assume it while claiming "I'm not one of the people claiming to know enough about what happened to pass judgement. "

I'm keeping them the same for everyone. She shouldn't have pretended to be of age.

You assume she pretended to be of age. And here you are, passing judgment even after ""I'm not one of the people claiming to know enough about what happened to pass judgement. "

By the way, quotes around "rape" when it is statutory rape is standard rape apologia.

 

[TomC]

You assume she pretended to be of age.

Can we agree that Abelseth was in a public place, doing something with a minimum age requirement of 21?
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You assume she pretended to be of age.

Can we agree that Abelseth was in a public place, doing something with a minimum age requirement of 21?
Tom

Agreed. And under-aged drinking is so uncommon, it is utterly inconceivable to consider anyone being in a place where alcohol is sold being under the ages of 21 much less 18! Especially at a bar and grille!

 

[TomC]

Agreed. And under-aged drinking is so uncommon, it is utterly inconceivable to consider anyone being in a place where alcohol is sold being under the ages of 21

So.
You can admit that she lied about her age to someone.
She couldn't have been drinking there without doing so.
Tom

 

[Toni]

You are shtiging the goal posts. You wrote "Another is that Abelseth managed to convince a bartender that she was 21. Old enough to buy."

How am I shifting the goalposts?

Abelseth was drinking in an establishment with a minimum age of 21 to drink.
Barnes assumed she was at least 18.

I'm not shifting goalposts. I'm keeping them the same for everyone. She shouldn't have pretended to be of age. He should have been more careful picking up women in a bar. They shouldn't have made a baby.

The list of scumbag behavior here is kinda long. And that's all before the custody battle. Then it gets worse.

Tom

You are assuming that Abelseth was drinking alcohol.

You are assuming that Barnes thought she was at least 18.

I am assuming you have forgotten that she did not allege only statutory rape but also forcible rape. I’m assuming that you are aware that it is not legal or permissible to have sex with someone who is too intoxicated to consent to sex.

It appears that you are equating the decision making of a 16 year old with that of a 30 year old. Is that correct?

It appears that, having assumed that Abelseth snuck into a bar in order to engage in minor consumption, you hold that morally and legally equivalent to statutory rape and/or forcible rape. Is that correct?

 

[Toni]

Agreed. And under-aged drinking is so uncommon, it is utterly inconceivable to consider anyone being in a place where alcohol is sold being under the ages of 21

So.
You can admit that she lied about her age to someone.
She couldn't have been drinking there without doing so.
Tom

That’s not at all true. The bartender may or may not have asked for ID. Barnes or someone else might have purchased alcohol for her, Barnes may have purchased alcohol for her, knowing she was under age and fir the purposes of rendering her unable to fight off his advances. He lied to her when he offered to take her home. Why didn’t he take her home as promised?

 

[Toni]

It appears in this thread that TomC believes if you engage in underage drinking, it is your fault of an actual adult rapes you and impregnates you.