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Rittenhouse/Kenosha Shooting Split

He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Even so, he was on the ground being assaulted by people. I should not be a surprise even to the dumbest of assholes that there would be bloodshed.

Oh the irony of the BLM mob screaming at police to have him arrested.

What irony?

The #BLM movement is all about valuing human life, specifically the lives of black people. It's all about having the Constitutional rights of blacks and whites equally respected. It's about having the police Protect and Serve people of color the same way they do for whites. It's about not being indifferent when people are beaten and killed.

Seriously, are you really this clueless about what the protesters are protesting? Or are you just bullshitting?
 
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Even so, he was on the ground being assaulted by people. I should not be a surprise even to the dumbest of assholes that there would be bloodshed.

Oh the irony of the BLM mob screaming at police to have him arrested.

What irony?

The #BLM movement is all about valuing human life, specifically the lives of black people. It's all about having the Constitutional rights of blacks and whites equally respected. It's about having the police Protect and Serve people of color the same way they do for whites. It's about not being indifferent when people are beaten and killed.

LOL ! Quit clowning around, you couldn’t possibly have missed the “defund the police, all cops are bad” mantra from the BLM rabble. And when the chips are down they start yelling for the police to arrest people. Hilarious.

Seriously, are you really this clueless about what the protesters are protesting? Or are you just bullshitting?

Protesting ? Behave yourself.
 
Ok, I think this video makes it clear. The guy in the blue rectangle and shirt on his head throws a plastic bag probably with rocks at him and misses. Then he runs up and tries to disarm him. Not sure whata happened with that.

https://twitter.com/AntifaWatch2/status/1298649108585099264

Is this before or after he killed the first person?

Directly after.

Here's a video that gives a semi-clear sequence of events, starting with the first shooting:

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/n_7QHRNFOKE?t=153[/YOUTUBE]

Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.
 
17 years old? Well, I suppose that thug will be living in jail for a while.
I think he could make a decent case for self defense. Or at least a good lawyer could. Rittenhouse sounds like an old money name, so he might be able to afford one.
 
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.

Had there not been riots and "burning this bitch down", there would have been no need for Kenosha Guards.
 
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Driving to another state is not illegal. And #BLMers have been protesting while armed with semiauto rifles too. So that in itself seems to be ok. And if this kid was set upon by #BLMers I can see it being self defense shooting.
 
Don’t let someone like him reproduce. Lock him up forever.

I thought you guys were in favor of a sentencing reform. Which is it?

Also, he is 17. During Trayvon Martin discussions, I was told that a 17 year old is just a child. You want to lock up a child forever?
 
[TWEET]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">HOLY SHIT!????????????*♂️<br>MUST WATCH!<br><br>Video of <a href="https://twitter.com/KenoshaPolice?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KenoshaPolice</a><br>giving water to Kyle Rittenhouse AND Police thanking all the <br>ALT-Right agitators who were <br>armed with AR-15!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kenosha?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kenosha</a><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/kylerittenhouse?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#kylerittenhouse</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/KidVicious?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#KidVicious</a>????????????*♂️ <br><br> <a href="https://t.co/dNgqpf0knC">pic.twitter.com/dNgqpf0knC</a></p>— kirk acevedo (@kirkacevedo) <a href="https://twitter.com/kirkacevedo/status/1298686758737985536?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 26, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/TWEET]
 
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Driving to another state is not illegal. And #BLMers have been protesting while armed with semiauto rifles too. So that in itself seems to be ok. And if this kid was set upon by #BLMers I can see it being self defense shooting.
Some guy running around with a firearm is clearly an example of "Waaah, anything might happen", so the #BLMers were acting in self-defense - according to your stated defense of the police action in Kenosha shooting.

Oh, I forgot, the victim is white and the attackers are black, so your rational is not applicable in this instance.
 
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.

Had there not been riots and "burning this bitch down", there would have been no need for Kenosha Guards.

Bullshit. He was 17 years old, and he was carrying an AR-15 assault rifle. What kind of fucked up country is it in the first place that we have 17 year olds allowed to own or carry such weapons without at least adult supervision? He never should have been there! He wasn’t a business owner defending his property, let the fucking professionals handle the situation. If it’s that bad, get the National Guard out there, but vigilante groups like this have no business existing in America. None!

Here’s the real question. Why aren’t these things happening in Germany? Or Denmark? Or Canada? Or virtually anywhere else in the free world. Why do we never read about cops shooting unarmed people in these places, followed by rioting, followed by vigilante groups who feel free to Shoot at anyone THEY have determined to be a threat?

This is the direct result of decades of a fear and gun culture perpetrated those like Donald fucking Trump who spew hate filled monologues about how brown people are rapists, and drug dealers, and you need a gun to protect yourself and you’re really cool like Rambo if you do that. We live in an NRA/GOP induced fear for no reason whatsoever. Other than to sell more weapons. Sell the fear. Those scary black people Are coming after you, it’s ok to shoot them. That mentality has been driven into us since the election of Ronald Reagan - the truly worst President ever.

In a free society, only the state should have a monopoly on violence. I don’t like rioters or looters either. Hope they’re all prosecuted. But back off and let the professionals handle it. Going down there is only going to escalate the problem and get you and someone else hurt. Even if it is your business, that’s what you have insurance for.
 
Fucking Facebook! He was radicalized on some Facebook group, Kenosha Guards. They’ve taken it down so you can’t see what they were saying. Sheesh. Kid has ruined several lives now including is own. Fuck.

Had there not been riots and "burning this bitch down", there would have been no need for Kenosha Guards.

Bullshit. He was 17 years old, and he was carrying an AR-15 assault rifle. What kind of fucked up country is it in the first place that we have 17 year olds allowed to own or carry such weapons without at least adult supervision? He never should have been there! He wasn’t a business owner defending his property, let the fucking professionals handle the situation. If it’s that bad, get the National Guard out there, but vigilante groups like this have no business existing in America. None!
Vigilante groups happen when the elected officials refuse to do their job and protect the citizens, or worse, order the police to not do their job.

If you check, you will find that gun sales has sky rocketed across the U.S. since mayors and governors in several states have not attempted to stop looting, arson, and assaults in several cities plus the growing demand to 'defund' police. People want security and, if the local governments refuse to provide it, people start looking out for themselves and others in their community (commonly called vigilantism).

ETA:
As an aside, the democrats may feel the fallout from ignoring the riots in the next election... Trump has put on his "law and order" cape.
 
He got in his car and drove to another state and starting running around the streets with a rifle. Sounds like premeditated murder to me, deliberately planning to instigate the actions of others trying to protect his victims that he then used as an excuse to murder.

Driving to another state is not illegal. And #BLMers have been protesting while armed with semiauto rifles too. So that in itself seems to be ok. And if this kid was set upon by #BLMers I can see it being self defense shooting.
Some guy running around with a firearm is clearly an example of "Waaah, anything might happen", so the #BLMers were acting in self-defense - according to your stated defense of the police action in Kenosha shooting.

Oh, I forgot, the victim is white and the attackers are black, so your rational is not applicable in this instance.

They were all white, so I don't know what you are babbling about. In any case, that isn't close to the stated position, this is just a classic straw-man.
 
Seems the guy shot in the head was chasing him and threw a molotov cocktail at him?

After that, he is attacked by the other two dudes, and that's when he kills the other guy, it seems, and definitely when he wounds the third guy. Warning, the video is pretty graphic.

Definitely looks like it could legally be self defense. Certainly not "1st degree murder" as he was initially charged with.

Do we know anything about the dead guys?
 
Bullshit. He was 17 years old, and he was carrying an AR-15 assault rifle. What kind of fucked up country is it in the first place that we have 17 year olds allowed to own or carry such weapons without at least adult supervision? He never should have been there! He wasn’t a business owner defending his property, let the fucking professionals handle the situation. If it’s that bad, get the National Guard out there, but vigilante groups like this have no business existing in America. None!

Yeah, the kid was pretty stupid to come there in the first place, and with a rifle too. I did not say he should have gone there. But he (and others) would not have come if the rioters had not rioted and senselessly burned down buildings.
And also what he did is not premeditated murder.

Here’s the real question. Why aren’t these things happening in Germany? Or Denmark? Or Canada? Or virtually anywhere else in the free world.
The AR15 part is due to MUCH stricter gun laws.
But Germany and other European countries have had devastating rioting too. For example, Hamburg suffered pretty severe anti-capitalism riots (including our "friends" the Antifas) in 2017.

Why do we never read about cops shooting unarmed people in these places, followed by rioting, followed by vigilante groups who feel free to Shoot at anyone THEY have determined to be a threat?
As I said they have fewer guns. Second, there is no black nationalism. Third, Blake WAS ARMED.

This is the direct result of decades of a fear and gun culture perpetrated those like Donald fucking Trump who spew hate filled monologues about how brown people are rapists, and drug dealers, and you need a gun to protect yourself a
More like the result of decades of fearmongering that somehow black people are being hunted by police and by whitey even though black people commit about 5x as many murders per capita as whites.
Result of decades of that racist propaganda: 'Black people in America are scared,' says LeBron James after Jacob Blake shooting

In a free society, only the state should have a monopoly on violence. I don’t like rioters or looters either.
I agree with you. I do not like loose US weapons laws or the prevalence of militias, be they white or black.
But if you have rioting and lawlessness, and local cities/counties not doing enough to restore order, then it is hardly surprising that armed people opposed to the rioters would show up.

Hope they’re all prosecuted.
We agree there! Unfortunately, "progressive" DAs have basically declared that they will go easy on rioters and have been dropping charges. That merely encourages more rioting!

But back off and let the professionals handle it. Going down there is only going to escalate the problem and get you and someone else hurt. Even if it is your business, that’s what you have insurance for.

I agree that people should not come in seeking trouble. But I have a lot of respect for people protecting their livelihoods from the violent mob.
 
Some guy running around with a firearm is clearly an example of "Waaah, anything might happen", so the #BLMers were acting in self-defense - according to your stated defense of the police action in Kenosha shooting.

Oh, I forgot, the victim is white and the attackers are black, so your rational is not applicable in this instance.

They were all white, so I don't know what you are babbling about. In any case, that isn't close to the stated position, this is just a classic straw-man.
It is exactly his repeated position.
 
So, we have people, not cops just people, entering an area with significant unrest armed with even more deadly weapons than cops bring into areas with unrest.

Not only that, but the murderer was one of those documented Boogaloo "militia" fucking racists.

It's like Beirut, letting a bad situation fester and then being surprised when it blows the fuck up. Surprised Pikachu and all that.

Maybe actually fucking regulate the militias?

He has not been documented as a Boogaloo, quite the opposite. Boogaloo are anti-government, far-right extremists who have killed cops. This Rittenhouse guy seems to be a cop wannabe. So "militia" but not boogaloo.


Anyway, here is the NYTimes piece that strings together the events as best as possible:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html

Basically, what we know starts with Rittenhouse being chased by two guys for some unknown reason. One guy shoots a pistol into the air, and Rittenhouse turns around as he is being charged by the other guy, this is when he shoots that guy in the head.

There is gunfire all around. He runs back towards the gunfire / police, and that is when the three other guys try to stop him. I think he trips, but somehow ends up on the ground, one guy tries to stomp him, Rittenhouse shoots but misses, the tall skinny guy with a skateboard hits him with the skateboard, gets shot in the stomach. And another guy who is running towards him with a gun gets shot in the arm.

Quite frankly, given all the video evidence, he's going to have a very good self-defense case, especially since he is retreating the entire time.


This twitter thread by one of the reporters has more videos:

https://twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

Sounds like a lot of dumb people all around. What is still unknown is why the two original guys were chasing him.
 
So... white fascists are out there armed to protect the neighborhood from what appears to be a lot of white protesters. An armed white fascist shot at and killed multiple protesters (also white).

And we are fearing black mobs because?
 
"Footage appears to show Rittenhouse later walking into a line of armored police vehicles with his hands up while protesters shout to officers that he was the person responsible for the shootings" Despite the apparent attempt to hand himself in, he was only arrested on recently in his hometown, Antioch, Illinois, 15 miles from Kenosha.

I'm sorry, but I think this is a bit comical. I'm trying to imagine a black man with a rifle walking towards American police (who presumably at least heard shots) trying to hand himself in after shooting three people, with a crowd yelling at the police that he did it, and he can't hand himself in, and the police only quite a bit later arrest him at his house in another town (without shooting or killing him). :)

Maybe they were waiting to see if he had a car. If he had gotten into a car, well, they'd have had to shoot him. Or at least note his number plate. No wait, I said imagine he was black.
 
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