Rittenhouse/Kenosha Shooting Split

[ZiprHead]

It's obviously a defense tactic to make him more sympathetic to the jury.

We've already established that employing trial tactics does not change whether he is innocent or guilty.

No, we haven't. it's a well known psychological tactic that sympathetic defendants can influence jurors.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I did not say it would not or could not influence jurors. I said it doesn't change whether he is innocent or guilty.

What we haven't established is whether, on this particular question, Rittenhouse has somehow been dishonest or deceptive. But the pearl-clutching hysteria continues.

Psychology of Persuasion for Trial Lawyers a look at the Lecture of Dyke Huish given at NACDL

You misunderstood what I wrote. I did not say it would not or could not influence jurors. I said it doesn't change whether he is innocent or guilty.

Huish asks lawyers to think of the symbols that will be used in the trial. What will the jury picture when they heard the words? Can you provide a picture that provides a more favorable symbols than what the jury is picturing.

Huish uses the example of a college football game; we would all picture a different game; I went to University of Connecticut Law School so unfortunately I would not picture my school but some big time game like Michigan vs. Ohio State.

People view the world through symbols and concepts. People collect information in symbolic fashion. We want to be conscious of what the symbols are like in our trials. For example, when the jury hears side of the road, do they picture it as we want them to. To make sure we are picking the correct symbols in the trial we may need to bring them to the scene with a picture to change the symbol.

Psychology plays a big part in the defense lawyer trade.

You misunderstood what I wrote. I did not say it would not or could not influence jurors. I said it doesn't change whether he is innocent or guilty.

You seem to have a tremendous misunderstand about US trial law. Guilt or innocence is decided by jurors. Psychologically influencing jurors is an effective way to aid in getting a not guilty determination.

But I have great suspicion you know all this already and are just bullshitting us all because you can.

 

[Rhea]

You seem very confused by this.

I'm confused as to why nobody can answer my question.

They have answered your question. You’re confused by the language

Is he taking a nursing-related course offered by ASU, or not?

You’re inventing a question. He said he was a college student. He is not. He is not enrolled at any college. He said he was studying nursing. Nursing is not a course, it is a program. He is not in a nursing program.

Now I'll admit there is probably a language difference here. But if I took a course offered by an Australian university online, I would say it is fair to say I'm a student at that university (in a non-award course).

And in America it would not be fair to say this. It would be deceptive - a lie - because it would not be true.

Many colleges offer personal enrichment courses. Taking one of them does NOT make you a student of that college. Many courses are related to nursing. Taking one of them does NOT make you a nursing student.

I take online courses all the time. They are cool. But I am definitely NOT a neurosugery student at Johns hopkins just because I watched a JHU video on neurosurgery.


Rittenhouse’s lawyer is well aware of this.

 

[ZiprHead]

Metaphor - you cannot be a college student at a college in the US unless you are enrolled at the college. Did you not know that?

You can’t just take a continuing ed night class and call yourself a “college student.”

The college says he is not enrolled. Period.

You seem very confused by this.

I'm confused as to why nobody can answer my question. Is he taking a nursing-related course offered by ASU, or not?

Now I'll admit there is probably a language difference here. But if I took a course offered by an Australian university online, I would say it is fair to say I'm a student at that university (in a non-award course).

No one said he wasn't.

 

[Metaphor]

You seem to have a tremendous misunderstand about US trial law. Guilt or innocence is decided by jurors. Psychologically influencing jurors is an effective way to aid in getting a not guilty determination.

But I have great suspicion you know all this already and are just bullshitting us all because you can.

I have misunderstood nothing. It is your imprecision of language that has caused you to misunderstand me.

Trial tactics do not change the fact of Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. He is either guilty or innocent. They may influence the finding of guilty or not guilty by the jury, though if the jury were anything like the majority on this board, I am sure that it would change the dial from 'definitely guilty' to 'super mega guilty', instead of in the direction he intended.

 

[Metaphor]

You’re inventing a question. He said he was a college student. He is not. He is not enrolled at any college. He said he was studying nursing. Nursing is not a course, it is a program. He is not in a nursing program.

So, if I am taking 'Maritime Law' and I tell people I am doing a law course, I am wrong?

Now I'll admit there is probably a language difference here. But if I took a course offered by an Australian university online, I would say it is fair to say I'm a student at that university (in a non-award course).

And in America it would not be fair to say this. It would be deceptive - a lie - because it would not be true.

Many colleges offer personal enrichment courses. Taking one of them does NOT make you a student of that college. Many courses are related to nursing. Taking one of them does NOT make you a nursing student.

I take online courses all the time. They are cool. But I am definitely NOT a neurosugery student at Johns hopkins just because I watched a JHU video on neurosurgery.

No, I am not talking about watching a video or podcast or some other non-registration, non-assessment course.

If I enrolled or registered for a 'Maritime Law' course, and I paid money, and there were online classes and assessments, I think it is fair to say I am a student and I am studying law, especially if that non-award study can be recognised for a degree or diploma program if I choose to do so.

 

[none]

You seem to have a tremendous misunderstand about US trial law. Guilt or innocence is decided by jurors. Psychologically influencing jurors is an effective way to aid in getting a not guilty determination.

But I have great suspicion you know all this already and are just bullshitting us all because you can.

I have misunderstood nothing. It is your imprecision of language that has caused you to misunderstand me.

Trial tactics do not change the fact of Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. He is either guilty or innocent. They may influence the finding of guilty or not guilty by the jury, though if the jury were anything like the majority on this board, I am sure that it would change the dial from 'definitely guilty' to 'super mega guilty', instead of in the direction he intended.

hmm.... of course nothing changes in the courtroom that is why he should have been shot by the armored vehicles clearing the venue.

 

[Rhea]

If I enrolled or registered for a 'Maritime Law' course, and I paid money, and there were online classes and assessments, I think it is fair to say I am a student and I am studying law, especially if that non-award study can be recognised for a degree or diploma program if I choose to do so.

In America it is not fair for you to say this.

My children took non-program courses online at Johns Hopkins University when they were young and gifted. It was NOT TRUE that my son was “a college student at Johns Hopkins studying Computer Science” when he was 11 years old.


In order to be a

a “college student studying nursing at Arizona State University,”

you have to be registered, accepted and enrolled in the nursing program at ASU.


Rittenhouse is in America. This is what it means to be “studying nursing” in America. Rittenhouse was not studying nursing as a college student at ASU. He was taking a continuing ed class that would not count toward a nursing degree or any other degree at ASU. It was a non degree class.


You are confused by the language. Kyle was being deceptive. You seem very invested in not knowing that.

 

[ZiprHead]

You seem to have a tremendous misunderstand about US trial law. Guilt or innocence is decided by jurors. Psychologically influencing jurors is an effective way to aid in getting a not guilty determination.

But I have great suspicion you know all this already and are just bullshitting us all because you can.

I have misunderstood nothing. It is your imprecision of language that has caused you to misunderstand me.

Trial tactics do not change the fact of Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. He is either guilty or innocent. They may influence the finding of guilty or not guilty by the jury,

So you do understand the psychological tactics and you have just been bullshitting us all this time. Good to know.

though if the jury were anything like the majority on this board, I am sure that it would change the dial from 'definitely guilty' to 'super mega guilty', instead of in the direction he intended.

None of us are on the jury.

 

[Metaphor]

So you do understand the psychological tactics and you have just been bullshitting us all this time. Good to know.

I "bullshitted" nobody. I explained that your misunderstanding is your own, not mine.

I have already said that Rittenhouse could be engaging in trial tactics. That does not change his guilt or innocence. I can't explain it any further to you.

 

[Metaphor]

You are confused by the language. Kyle was being deceptive. You seem very invested in not knowing that.

No, I am invested in knowing if Rittenhouse was enrolled or registered in an online nursing-related course offered by ASU.

 

[ZiprHead]

So you do understand the psychological tactics and you have just been bullshitting us all this time. Good to know.

I "bullshitted" nobody. I explained that your misunderstanding is your own, not mine.

I have already said that Rittenhouse could be engaging in trial tactics. That does not change his guilt or innocence. I can't explain it any further to you.

Considering virtually everyone in this thread is disagreeing with you, maybe your poor explanation is the problem.

 

[none]

So you do understand the psychological tactics and you have just been bullshitting us all this time. Good to know.

I "bullshitted" nobody. I explained that your misunderstanding is your own, not mine.

I have already said that Rittenhouse could be engaging in trial tactics. That does not change his guilt or innocence. I can't explain it any further to you.

shoot him. @Metaphor, he was an active participant at a civil uprising....
I mean nukular the cite from orbit.... err drop bombs... errr take out the vegetation then surround the insurrectionists and set them on fire and put them in canisters in unmarked graves if you can... ,right?
/sarcasm

 

[ZiprHead]

You are confused by the language. Kyle was being deceptive. You seem very invested in not knowing that.

No, I am invested in knowing if Rittenhouse was enrolled or registered in an online nursing-related course offered by ASU.

Yes, move them goal posts.

 

[Metaphor]

Considering virtually everyone in this thread is disagreeing with you, maybe your poor explanation is the problem.

I don't need a fallacious appeal to popularity to know what I've said is correct.

Trial tactics do not change Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. Trial tactics may influence a jury's finding of guilty or not guilty. If you don't understand the difference, I cannot help you further.

 

[none]

Considering virtually everyone in this thread is disagreeing with you, maybe your poor explanation is the problem.

I don't need a fallacious appeal to popularity to know what I've said is correct.

Trial tactics do not change Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. Trial tactics may influence a jury's finding of guilty or not guilty. If you don't understand the difference, I cannot help you further.

was he innocent when he killed people?

 

[Metaphor]

You are confused by the language. Kyle was being deceptive. You seem very invested in not knowing that.

No, I am invested in knowing if Rittenhouse was enrolled or registered in an online nursing-related course offered by ASU.

Yes, move them goal posts.

That's what I asked in the first place, which nobody has answered.*

*I have made a slight adjustment to my question, in case the word 'enrolled' is specifically for people enrolled in a degree rather than a non-award course.

 

[ZiprHead]

Considering virtually everyone in this thread is disagreeing with you, maybe your poor explanation is the problem.

I don't need a fallacious appeal to popularity to know what I've said is correct.

Trial tactics do not change Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. Trial tactics may influence a jury's finding of guilty or not guilty. If you don't understand the difference, I cannot help you further.

Wow! Talk about circular logic.

 

[none]

You are confused by the language. Kyle was being deceptive. You seem very invested in not knowing that.

No, I am invested in knowing if Rittenhouse was enrolled or registered in an online nursing-related course offered by ASU.

Yes, move them goal posts.

That's what I asked in the first place, which nobody has answered.*

*I have made a slight adjustment to my question, in case the word 'enrolled' is specifically for people enrolled in a degree rather than a non-award course.

oh my the goalposts have moved. gee go figure...

 

[Metaphor]

Considering virtually everyone in this thread is disagreeing with you, maybe your poor explanation is the problem.

I don't need a fallacious appeal to popularity to know what I've said is correct.

Trial tactics do not change Rittenhouse's guilt or innocence. Trial tactics may influence a jury's finding of guilty or not guilty. If you don't understand the difference, I cannot help you further.

Wow! Talk about circular logic.

There's nothing circular about it.

 

[Metaphor]

oh my the goalposts have moved. gee go figure...

The goal posts have not moved. I have clarified my question, because I have just learned of a peculiar, narrow application of the word 'enrolled' that appears to be unique to the United States.