• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Ritual Human and Animal Sacrifice in the Bible (Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?)

phands

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
1,976
Location
New York, Manhattan, Upper West Side
Basic Beliefs
Hardcore Atheist
Again, courtesy of evilbible.com....

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is filled with numerous stories of animal and human sacrifice. God, we are told, likes the pleasing aroma of burning flesh. Animal sacrifice is much more common than human sacrifice, but both occur and are “pleasing to the Lord”.


Genesis, the first book of the Bible, has Abraham preparing to sacrifice his son to God. “Take your son, your only son – yes, Isaac, whom you love so much – and go to the land of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will point out to you.” (Genesis 22:1-18) Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar. Then Abraham ties his son to the altar and puts a knife to his throat. He then hears God tell him this was just a test of his faith. However, God still wanted to smell some burnt flesh so he tells Abraham to burn a ram.


Even though he didn’t kill his son, it is still an incredibly cruel and evil thing to do. If Abraham did that today he would be in jail serving a long sentence as someone’s prison-bitch. It amazes me how Christians see this story as a sign of God’s love. There is no love here, just pure unadulterated evil.


The first seven chapters of Leviticus have extensive rules regarding animal and food sacrifices. These offerings are supposed to be burnt so that God can smell them. If you read through these it seems clear to me that the priests were getting their followers to make a big feast for them every week. The priests were very particular about what kind of food to bring and how to prepare it.


Even more peculiar is God’s obsession with first-born sons. In Exodus 13:2 the Lord said “Consecrate to me every first-born that opens the womb among Israelites, both man and beast, for it belongs to me.” Later it says that you can redeem (replace) an ass with a sheep and that you must redeem a child for an unspecified price. It is clear from the context that “consecrate” means a burning sacrifice. These priests are guilty of theft and kidnapping. Since any sins in the Old Testament were punishable by death, these priests used the threat of death to extort food and money from their followers. What do we call a scum-bag that threatens to kill your kids unless you pay a ransom? A kidnapper! If these priests were alive today they would be in prison with Abraham.


However, in Leviticus 27:28-29, the Lord allows for no redemptions. “Note also that any one of his possessions which a man vows as doomed to the Lord, whether it is a human being or an animal, or a hereditary field, shall be neither sold nor ransomed; everything that is thus doomed becomes most sacred to the Lord. All human beings that are doomed lose the right to be redeemed; they must be put to death.” I must admit that I am a bit confused by this contradiction, but it might only apply to slaves in your possession. Not that it makes any difference. A human sacrifice is a human sacrifice, and it is just sick.


Bible Passages About Ritual Human Sacrifice

Jephthah Burns His Daughter
“At that time the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he went throughout the land of Gilead and Manasseh, including Mizpah in Gilead, and led an army against the Ammonites. And Jephthah made a vow to the LORD. He said, “If you give me victory over the Ammonites, I will give to the LORD the first thing coming out of my house to greet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.”
“So Jephthah led his army against the Ammonites, and the LORD gave him victory. He thoroughly defeated the Ammonites from Aroer to an area near Minnith – twenty towns – and as far away as Abel-keramim. Thus Israel subdued the Ammonites. When Jephthah returned home to Mizpah, his daughter – his only child – ran out to meet him, playing on a tambourine and dancing for joy. When he saw her, he tore his clothes in anguish. “My daughter!” he cried out. “My heart is breaking! What a tragedy that you came out to greet me. For I have made a vow to the LORD and cannot take it back.” And she said, “Father, you have made a promise to the LORD. You must do to me what you have promised, for the LORD has given you a great victory over your enemies, the Ammonites. But first let me go up and roam in the hills and weep with my friends for two months, because I will die a virgin.” “You may go,” Jephthah said. And he let her go away for two months. She and her friends went into the hills and wept because she would never have children. When she returned home, her father kept his vow, and she died a virgin. So it has become a custom in Israel for young Israelite women to go away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah’s daughter.” (Judges 11:29-40 NLT)

God Commands Burning Humans

[The Lord speaking] “The one who has stolen what was set apart for destruction will himself be burned with fire, along with everything he has, for he has broken the covenant of the LORD and has done a horrible thing in Israel.” (Joshua 7:15 NLT)

Josiah and Human Sacrifice

At the LORD’s command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD’s command, he shouted, “O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you.“ (1 Kings 13:1-2 NLT)
He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: “You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant.” There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah’s reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD’s Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 NLT)

Human Sacrifice

Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed, because God tried them and found them worthy of himself. As gold in the furnace, he proved them, and as sacrificial offerings he took them to himself. In the time of their visitation they shall shine, and shall dart about as sparks through stubble; (Wisdom 3:5-7 NAB The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible.)

Child Sacrifice


And this became a hidden trap for mankind, because men, in bondage to misfortune or to royal authority, bestowed on objects of stone or wood the name that ought not to be shared. Afterward it was not enough for them to err about the knowledge of God, but they live in great strife due to ignorance, and they call such great evils peace. For whether they kill children in their initiations, or celebrate secret mysteries, or hold frenzied revels with strange customs… (Wisdom 14:21-23 RSV) The Book of The Wisdom of Solomon is mostly in Catholic versions of the Bible. This passage condemns human sacrifice but acknowledges that it did happen by early God worshipers.

Humans are Fuel for Fire

As for you, son of man, prophesy: Thus says the Lord GOD against the Ammonites and their insults: A sword, a sword is drawn for slaughter, burnished to consume and to flash lightning, because you planned with false visions and lying divinations to lay it on the necks of depraved and wicked men whose day has come when their crimes are at an end. Return it to its sheath! In the place where you were created, in the land of your origin, I will judge you. I will pour out my indignation upon you, breathing my fiery wrath upon you, I will hand you over to ravaging men, artisans of destruction. You shall be fuel for the fire, your blood shall flow throughout the land. You shall not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken. (Ezekiel 21:33-37 NAB)

Burn Nonbelievers

“Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)


So the next time some Christian tells you about the “love of God”, show them this page and ask them “Why does God want me to burn animals and humans?”
 
....
Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar.
He doesn't lie. He just spins the truth.
God told Abe to take his son up and sacrifice him. So God has already provided the sacrifice. Abe's just not dumb enough to tell Isaac until the kid schlepps the wood up that mountain...
 
....
Abraham takes his own son up on a mountain and builds an altar upon which to burn him. He even lies to his son and has him help build the altar.
He doesn't lie. He just spins the truth.
God told Abe to take his son up and sacrifice him. So God has already provided the sacrifice. Abe's just not dumb enough to tell Isaac until the kid schlepps the wood up that mountain...

And you know this how? It certainly doesn't't say so in the babble, Thus I can only surmise that you are interpreting it sympathetically, even if that was still a terrible thing to do to any kid. Either that or you're trying to defend the indefensible. In either case, there's so much other evidence of god's vileness, that this is just one more example,and you can't possibly justify them all.
 
And you know this how? It certainly doesn't't say so in the babble,
Sure it does. It quotes God telling Abe to take Isaac up the mountain and kill him.
Abe makes preparation for a sacrifice, but Isaac noticed that there was no ram or other 'clean' animal appropriate for ritual slaughter.

Abe said 'God will provide.' As we, the readers, know that Isaac himself is the sacrifice, as directed by God, we can see that this is not a lie.
Abe is following God's instructions so that when he gets to the appointed place, he'll have everything he needs to perform a sacrifice.
Thus I can only surmise that you are interpreting it sympathetically,
Not sympathetically.
A technicality.
The whole point of the story is Abraham being obedient to God's commands, which would include the fact that God hates lying liars. So Abe didn't lie. Except by omission, he wasn't completely candid.

Doesn't make the act any less vile, but at least Abe didn't break any of the 613 commandments...
 
The idea of a 'sin eater' is known in different cultures. Someone eats a sacrifice thought to contain all the transgressions of the group purging them of guilt. Ritual purging through animal sacrifice was probably common. Yearly group catharsis.

The idea of JC being a sacrificial lamb consuming all sins past and future for believers would not have been a new idea.
 
And you know this how? It certainly doesn't't say so in the babble,
Sure it does. It quotes God telling Abe to take Isaac up the mountain and kill him.
Abe makes preparation for a sacrifice, but Isaac noticed that there was no ram or other 'clean' animal appropriate for ritual slaughter.

Abe said 'God will provide.' As we, the readers, know that Isaac himself is the sacrifice, as directed by God, we can see that this is not a lie.
Abe is following God's instructions so that when he gets to the appointed place, he'll have everything he needs to perform a sacrifice.
Thus I can only surmise that you are interpreting it sympathetically,
Not sympathetically.
A technicality.
The whole point of the story is Abraham being obedient to God's commands, which would include the fact that God hates lying liars. So Abe didn't lie. Except by omission, he wasn't completely candid.

Doesn't make the act any less vile, but at least Abe didn't break any of the 613 commandments...


Oh...wow. A lie by omission isn't a lie? And you still maintain that you know what was going in "Abe's" head, despite what is written in the evilbilble. You claim to have authoritative knowledge of the mind of someone who, if they ever existed (which is doubtful), dies thousands of years ago. Riiiiigggghhhhttt.....
 
As much as I appreciate the detail in your opening post, there is a subtext going on here that is highly amusing...
 
Oh...wow. A lie by omission isn't a lie?
to many moral authorities, no, it isn't.
And you still maintain that you know what was going in "Abe's" head, despite what is written in the evilbilble.
nnnnnnnnoooooo... i am going by what is written in the Books, not needing to delve into abe's head...
What he told Isaac was not, technically, a lie.
You claim to have authoritative knowledge of the mind of someone who, if they ever existed (which is doubtful), dies thousands of years ago. Riiiiigggghhhhttt.....
stilllllllllll not talking about his mind, just the details on the page. Details you quoted above.

Isaac was the sacrifice.
Isaac was on sacrifice mountain because God told Dad to bring him for the murder.
God provided the sacrifice.
Abe may have been sparing his son's feeling, or maybe "God will provide" was his bronze age dad-joke.

In our family, same situation, if I'd asked, "Dad, don't we need a sacrifice?" My old man would have replied, "What do you mean, we?"
Cuz dads are fuckers, you know?
I know i am. Ask any of my surviving kids.

So, Abraham made sacrifice as a premeditated murder... took care to keep his victim unsuspecting, made the kid dig his own grave carry his own altar, took steps to be sure servants would not have a chance to witness or interfere, and MAY have told a pun (eugh), so if you're going to hold him accountable as a murdering, voices-in-head sociopath, it's fine, but there's no need to add liar to the list.
 
Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world!
-John 1:29

Christianity is built on human sacrifice. The idea of Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice is the very heart of the religion.

17117902_1.jpg

Years ago, I saw a couple of images of very early representations of the crucifixion that showed Christ with the head of a lamb. I've tried to find those images several times since, but cannot.

In the words of Sam Harris-
As John the Baptist is rumored to have said upon seeing Jesus for the first time, “Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). For most Christians, this bizarre opinion still stands, and it remains the core of their faith. Christianity amounts to the claim that we must love and be loved by a God who approves of the scapegoating, torture, and murder of one man—his son, incidentally—in compensation for the misbehavior and thought-crimes of all others.

Let the good news go forth: we live in a cosmos, the vastness of which we can scarcely even indicate in our thoughts, on a planet teeming with creatures we have only begun to understand, but the whole project was actually brought to a glorious fulfillment over twenty centuries ago, after one species of primate (our own) climbed down out of the trees, invented agriculture and iron tools, glimpsed (as through a glass, darkly) the possibility of keeping its excrement out of its food, and then singled out one among its number to be viciously flogged and nailed to a cross.

The notion that Jesus Christ died for our sins and that his death constitutes a successful propitiation of a “loving” God is a direct and undisguised inheritance of the scapegoating barbarism that has plagued bewildered people throughout history. Viewed in a modern context, it is an idea at once so depraved and fantastical that it is hard to know where to begin to criticize it. Add to the abject mythology surrounding one man’s death by torture—Christ’s passion—the symbolic cannibalism of the Eucharist. Did I say “symbolic”? Sorry, according to the Vatican it is most assuredly not symbolic. In fact, the opinion of the Council of Trent still stands:

I likewise profess that in the Mass a true, proper and propitiatory sacrifice is offered to God on behalf of the living and the dead, and that the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ is truly, really, and substantially present in the most holy sacrament of the Eucharist, and that there is a change of the whole substance of the bread into the body, and of the whole substance of the wine into blood; and this change the Catholic Church calls transubstantiation. I also profess that the whole and entire Christ and a true sacrament is received under each separate species.

Of course, Catholics have done some very strenuous and unconvincing theology in this area, in an effort to make sense of how they can really eat the body of Jesus, not mere crackers enrobed in metaphor, and really drink his blood without, in fact, being a cult of crazy cannibals. Suffice it to say, however, that a world view in which “propitiatory sacrifices on behalf of the living and the dead” figure prominently is rather difficult to defend in the year 2007. But this has not stopped otherwise intelligent and well-intentioned people from defending it.
 
I’m going to go with “he deceived his son” because all the way up the mountain the son was led to believe he would not be tied to a pyre and have a knife at his throat.
 
I’m going to go with “he deceived his son” because all the way up the mountain the son was led to believe he would not be tied to a pyre and have a knife at his throat.


...and the prize goes to Rhea! Well put.

Also note how well Keith&Co's distraction attempt worked. Got the thread bogged down in "Abe's" shittyness, forgetting all the other examples of murder in the bible.
 
I’m going to go with “he deceived his son” because all the way up the mountain the son was led to believe he would not be tied to a pyre and have a knife at his throat.


...and the prize goes to Rhea! Well put.

Also note how well Keith&Co's distraction attempt worked. Got the thread bogged down in "Abe's" shittyness, forgetting all the other examples of murder in the bible.
I think you completely miss the point of my participation, here.
 
I’m going to go with “he deceived his son” because all the way up the mountain the son was led to believe he would not be tied to a pyre and have a knife at his throat.
Never said there was no deception. I even pointed it out.

But the deception was from silence, not lying.

There are many places in The Books where it's made clear that God doesn't like lies.
And a couple dozen where the Faithful are encouraged to shut the fuck up.

But I don't know of any place that God makes it clear that "deception through editing" counts as a burn-in-hell lie.
 
God doesn't like lies.

hmmm....the bible's not entirely with you there....

God lies by proxy; He sends prophets or lying spirits to deceive.

Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chronicles 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jeremiah 4:10
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jeremiah 20:7
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. 2 Thessalonians 2:11
 
Back
Top Bottom