Robert G. Ingersoll: atheist saint

[Jobar]

I recently came across a long list of quotes from the works of Col. Robert Green Ingersoll, August 11, 1833 – July 21, 1899. He was "an American lawyer, a Civil War veteran, politician, and orator of the United States during the Golden Age of Free Thought, noted for his broad range of culture and his defense of agnosticism. He was nicknamed "The Great Agnostic"."

It saddens and troubles me that I never heard mention of this man in any American history course in grade school, high school, or college; indeed, I had gray hairs before I ever learned anything about him. His legacy is such that no US student should be left unfamiliar with his life and works.

I suspect that the man himself would reject the title 'saint', given the role call of rogues, fools, and monsters which the Catholic Church has given that name. But in the sense of "a person of great charity, patience, purity, meekness, and wisdom", I submit that he deserves it far more than do most churchly ones. Likewise he would probably not much care for being called 'atheist'- he referred to himself as an agnostic, and even a pantheist. But his own words make plain that he lacked belief in any god- and thus IMO it's fair to call him atheist.

He was a committed Republican for all his adult life; I have no doubt that he would be disgusted and infuriated to see what has become of the party of Lincoln in our own day and age. It's said he would very likely have been elected President of the US, if he had not written so many books, and made so many speeches, revealing and condemning the dark face of Christian belief.

It's also said that the man had an incredible speaking voice, made much of his living as an orator addressing huge crowds, and was actually heard by more people than any single man ever was, before the advent of radio.

Some of his words-

Justice is the only worship.
Love is the only priest.
Ignorance is the only slavery.
Happiness is the only good.
The time to be happy is now,
The place to be happy is here,
The way to be happy is to make others so.
Wisdom is the science of happiness.
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I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men.

I attack the monsters, the phantoms of imagination that have ruled the world. I attack slavery. I ask for room -- room for the human mind.
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The hands that help are better far than lips that pray.
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Why should we place Christ at the top and summit of the human race? Was he kinder, more forgiving, more self-sacrificing than Buddha? Was he wiser, did he meet death with more perfect calmness, than Socrates? Was he more patient, more charitable, than Epictetus? Was he a greater philosopher, a deeper thinker, than Epicurus? In what respect was he the superior of Zoroaster? Was he gentler than Lao-tsze, more universal than Confucius? Were his ideas of human rights and duties superior to those of Zeno? Did he express grander truths than Cicero? Was his mind subtler than Spinoza’s? Was his brain equal to Kepler’s or Newton’s? Was he grander in death – a sublimer martyr than Bruno? Was he in intelligence, in the force and beauty of expression, in breadth and scope of thought, in wealth of illustration, in aptness of comparison, in knowledge of the human brain and heart, of all passions, hopes and fears, the equal of Shakespeare, the greatest of the human race?
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It has always seemed absurd to suppose that a god would choose for his companions, during all eternity, the dear souls whose highest and only ambition is to obey.
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There are treasures in books that all the money in the world cannot buy, but the poorest laborer can have for nothing.
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If abuses are destroyed, man must destroy them. If slaves are freed, man must free them. If new truths are discovered, man must discover them. If the naked are clothed; if the hungry are fed; if justice is done; if labor is rewarded; if superstition is driven from the mind; if the defenseless are protected and if the right finally triumphs, all must be the work of man. The grand victories of the future must be won by man, and by man alone.
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We read the pagan sacred books with profit and delight. With myth and fable we are ever charmed, and find a pleasure in the endless repetition of the beautiful, poetic, and absurd. We find, in all these records of the past, philosophies and dreams, and efforts stained with tears, of great and tender souls who tried to pierce the mystery of life and death, to answer the eternal questions of the Whence and Whither, and vainly sought to make, with bits of shattered glass, a mirror that would, in very truth, reflect the face and form of Nature's perfect self.

These myths were born of hopes, and fears, and tears, and smiles, and they were touched and colored by all there is of joy and grief between the rosy dawn of birth, and death's sad night. They clothed even the stars with passion, and gave to gods the faults and frailties of the sons of men. In them, the winds and waves were music, and all the lakes, and streams, and springs,—the mountains, woods and perfumed dells were haunted by a thousand fairy forms. They thrilled the veins of Spring with tremulous desire; made tawny Summer's billowed breast the throne and home of love; filled Autumns arms with sun-kissed grapes, and gathered sheaves; and pictured Winter as a weak old king who felt, like Lear upon his withered face, Cordelia's tears. These myths, though false, are beautiful, and have for many ages and in countless ways, enriched the heart and kindled thought. But if the world were taught that all these things are true and all inspired of God, and that eternal punishment will be the lot of him who dares deny or doubt, the sweetest myth of all the Fable World would lose its beauty, and become a scorned and hateful thing to every brave and thoughtful man.

Really, I could read his works all day, and sometimes have; I own a CD with his collected works, with more than ten thousand pages of his writings, and many photographs. One of the best buys I ever made. That list of quotes is well worth reading in its entirety, also.

 

[Ford]

My favorite of his was "God in the Constitution" which is reproduced on the Secular Web's library. If I remember correctly, the Secular Web was the original home of this forum. Anyway:

https://infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/god_in_constitution.html

n 1776 our fathers endeavored to retire the gods from politics. They declared that "all governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed." This was a contradiction of the then political ideas of the world; it was, as many believed, an act of pure blasphemy -- a renunciation of the Deity. It was in fact a declaration of the independence of the earth. It was a notice to all churches and priests that thereafter mankind would govern and protect themselves. Politically it tore down every altar and denied the authority of every "sacred book," and appealed from the Providence of God to the Providence of Man. Those who promulgated the Declaration adopted a Constitution for the great Republic.

What was the office or purpose of that Constitution? Admitting that all power came from the people, it was necessary, first, that certain means be adopted for the purpose of ascertaining the will of the people, and second, it was proper and convenient to designate certain departments that should exercise certain powers of the Government. There must be the legislative, the judicial and the executive departments. Those who make laws should not execute them. Those who execute laws should not have the power of absolutely determining their meaning or their constitutionality. For these reasons, among others, a Constitution was adopted.

This Constitution also contained a declaration of rights. It marked out the limitations of discretion, so that in the excitement of passion, men shall not go beyond the point designated in the calm moment of reason. When man is unprejudiced, and his passions subject to reason, it is well he should define the limits of power, so that the waves driven by the storm of passion shall not overbear the shore.

 

[southernhybrid]

I'm not sure why you put this in the religion section, Jobar, but I am much more saddened that I never learned about all the outstanding women that were atheists or agnostics, then I am about Ingersoll. Ingersoll may have been a man worthy of historical significance, but I am far more impressed by some of the females that helped change history, as they didn't even have the advantage of male privilege. So, let me list a few names that imo, were far more worthy of atheist sainthood than Ingersoll. Not that I have anything against Ingersoll or what he accomplished, I'm just a lot more impressed by the historical contributions of atheist/agnostic women from the 17 and 1800s.

Mary Wollstonecraft wrote "A Vindication for the Rights of Women in 1792. "...the being cannot be termed rational or virtuous, who obeys any authority but that of reason." She was the author of the first book calling for the equality of the sexes.

Anne Newport Royall 1769-1854 Her motto was "Good works instead of long prayers." She was a defender of the enlightenment and a strong advocate for the separation of church and state.

Frances Wright 1795-1852 She was the first woman to speak in public to men and women from the podium in the US. "I am not going to question your opinions. I am not going to meddle with your belief. I am not going to to dictate to you mine. All that I say is, examine, inquire. Look into the nature of things. She was an early advocate for free public schools. She was an antislavery advocate and the editor of "Free Enquirer". The clergy of her day called her the Red Harlot of Infidelity, etc. etc.

Lydia Maria Child 1802-1880 "It is impossible to exaggerate the evil work theology has done in the world." She was a famous abolitionist, novelist and journalist.

Ernestine Rose 1810-1892 She was known as the 19th Century's most outspoken atheist. She was an early advocate for women's rights. She wrote a bill and petitioned a bill known as a "Married Women's Property Act". It became law in New York in 1848 after 12 years her first petition. She was also an abolitionist. "Emancipation from every kind of bondage is my principle. I go for the recognition of human rights, without distinction of sect, party, sex or color.
She is one of my favorite historical women that fought for equality for women and people of color, yet I never heard of her until about 15 years ago.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton 1815-1902 She is probably more well known than some of the others, yet I don't remember ever learning about her in American History class. She was the first to call for woman suffrage in the US. She was more famous in her day than Susan B. Anthony. Why was I never told about her?

There are many, many more of these women, but since this OP was about Ingersoll, let me add one more. Helen H. gardener, aka "Ingersoll in Soprano"
1853-1925 She was also known as "the pretty infidel." She was a dedicated activist for the rights of women, and like Ingersoll, she had the ear of the president. She was appointed to the Civil Service Commission, making her the first woman to hold such a high position in the federal government.

From her writings:

It has never seemed to me that a creed was the staff of life. Men cannot live by creeds alone. I should not object, however, to one that should read something like this:
I believe in honesty
I believe that a Church has no right to teach what it does not know.
I believe that a clean life and a tender heart are worth more to this world than all the faith and all the gods of Time.
I believe that this world needs all our best efforts and earnest endeavors twenty-four hours every day.
I believe that if our labors were needed in another world we should be in another world, so long as we are in this one I believe in making the best and the most of the materials we have on hand.
I believe that fear of a god cripples men's intellects more than any other influence. I believe that Humanity needs and should have all the same, efforts, love, worship and tenderness.
I believe that men, women, and children need our best thoughts, our tenderest consideration, and our earnest sympathy. ect.

If I had never read the book, "Women Without Superstition" I would have never heard of these women, women who certainly deserve a place in history but are rarely referenced or studied in our public schools.

I think what these women were able to accomplish, especially considering the times that they lived in, are far more worthy of sainthood than Ingersoll.

 

[Politesse]

A well-written article that some of you may enjoy:

The Blasphemer Robert G. Ingersoll: Why He Mattered to Ambrose Bierce

It contains many worthwhile quotes from both of the named protagonists, and offers some context for their careers.

 

[lpetrich]

From Robert Ingersoll's "Some Mistakes of Moses" (Some Mistakes Of Moses -- Secular Web Library):

FAITH IN FILTH.

No light whatever is shed upon what passed in the world after the confounding of language at Babel, until the birth of Abraham. But, before speaking of the history of the Jewish people, it may be proper for me to say that many things are recounted in Genesis, and other books attributed to Moses, of which I do not wish to speak. There are many pages of these books unfit to read, many stories not calculated, in my judgment, to improve the morals of mankind. I do not wish even to call the attention of my readers to these things, except in a general way. It is to be hoped that the time will come when such chapters and passages as cannot be read without leaving the blush of shame upon the cheek of modesty, will be left out, and not published as a part of the Bible. If there is a God, it certainly is blasphemous to attribute to him the authorship of pages too obscene, beastly and vulgar to be read in the presence of men and women.

What might he think about how potty-mouthed some present-day women are?

 

[Jobar]

A well-written article that some of you may enjoy:

The Blasphemer Robert G. Ingersoll: Why He Mattered to Ambrose Bierce

It contains many worthwhile quotes from both of the named protagonists, and offers some context for their careers.

From that article:

Bierce took particular exception to Peck’s contention [after Ingersoll's death] that Ingersoll was a mere buffoon. Said Bierce, “Who that has an open mind would think that it [the charge of buffoonery] was written of Robert Ingersoll that he ‘burst into the sacred silence of their devotion with the raucous bellowing of an itinerant stump—speaker and the clowning of a mountebank?’”

To those who really know the character of Robert Ingersoll’s wit—keen, bright and clean as an Arab’s scimitar; to those who know the clear and penetrating expression and the proof; to those who know how much gold and how little of mud clung to the pebbles that he slung at the Goliaths of authority and superstition; to those who have noted the astonishing richness of his work in elevated sentiments fitly expressed, his opulence of memorable aphorism and his fertility of felicitous phrase—to these it will not seem credible that such a man can be compared to one who, knowing the infidelity of a friend’s wife, would “slap his friend upon the back and tell the story with a snicker, in the coarsest language of the brothel, interspersed with Rabelaisian jokes.”

Peck claimed that Ingersoll crassly lectured on religion for money—"in the character of a paid public entertainer, for his own personal profit.” Responded Bierce, “In what character does Prof. Peck conduct his valuable and entertaining magazine [The Bookman] for instruction and amusement of those willing to pay for it? ...Obviously the agnostic’s offense was not lecturing for pay. It was not lecturing on religion. It was not sarcasm. It was that lecturing for pay on religion, his sarcasm took a direction disagreeable to Prof. Peck, instead of disagreeable to Prof. Peck’s opponents.” Peck wistfully wondered that if, on the very threshold of death, Ingersoll might have looked back and speculated if he could have done something to “help make the life of a man on earth more noble, or more spiritual, or more truly worth living.” Bierce pounced.

This of a man who taught all the virtues as a duty and a delight!—who stood, as no other man among his countrymen has stood, for liberty, for honor, for good will toward men, for truth as it was given to him to see it, for love!—who by personal example taught patience under falsehood and silence under vilification!—who when slandered in debate answered not back, but addressed himself to the argument!—whose entire life was an inspiration to high thought and noble deed, and whose errors, if errors they are, the world can not afford to lose for the light and reason that are in them!

That even such a master of sarcasm, cynicism, and satire as Bierce could recognize Ingersoll's saintly qualities, is more support for my thesis here.

Also from that article, I found this image. Notice the shield.

Now here's the gravestone of a Confederate veteran, James Alford, located just a couple of miles from where I live.



I always suspected that Alford was influenced by Ingersoll; now I know.

 

[Jobar]

I'm not sure why you put this in the religion section, Jobar, but I am much more saddened that I never learned about all the outstanding women that were atheists or agnostics, then I am about Ingersoll. Ingersoll may have been a man worthy of historical significance, but I am far more impressed by some of the females that helped change history, as they didn't even have the advantage of male privilege. So, let me list a few names that imo, were far more worthy of atheist sainthood than Ingersoll. Not that I have anything against Ingersoll or what he accomplished, I'm just a lot more impressed by the historical contributions of atheist/agnostic women from the 17 and 1800s.

Mary Wollstonecraft wrote "A Vindication for the Rights of Women in 1792. "...the being cannot be termed rational or virtuous, who obeys any authority but that of reason." She was the author of the first book calling for the equality of the sexes.

Anne Newport Royall 1769-1854 Her motto was "Good works instead of long prayers." She was a defender of the enlightenment and a strong advocate for the separation of church and state.

Frances Wright 1795-1852 She was the first woman to speak in public to men and women from the podium in the US. "I am not going to question your opinions. I am not going to meddle with your belief. I am not going to to dictate to you mine. All that I say is, examine, inquire. Look into the nature of things. She was an early advocate for free public schools. She was an antislavery advocate and the editor of "Free Enquirer". The clergy of her day called her the Red Harlot of Infidelity, etc. etc.

Lydia Maria Child 1802-1880 "It is impossible to exaggerate the evil work theology has done in the world." She was a famous abolitionist, novelist and journalist.

Ernestine Rose 1810-1892 She was known as the 19th Century's most outspoken atheist. She was an early advocate for women's rights. She wrote a bill and petitioned a bill known as a "Married Women's Property Act". It became law in New York in 1848 after 12 years her first petition. She was also an abolitionist. "Emancipation from every kind of bondage is my principle. I go for the recognition of human rights, without distinction of sect, party, sex or color.
She is one of my favorite historical women that fought for equality for women and people of color, yet I never heard of her until about 15 years ago.

Elizabeth Cady Stanton 1815-1902 She is probably more well known than some of the others, yet I don't remember ever learning about her in American History class. She was the first to call for woman suffrage in the US. She was more famous in her day than Susan B. Anthony. Why was I never told about her?

There are many, many more of these women, but since this OP was about Ingersoll, let me add one more. Helen H. gardener, aka "Ingersoll in Soprano"
1853-1925 She was also known as "the pretty infidel." She was a dedicated activist for the rights of women, and like Ingersoll, she had the ear of the president. She was appointed to the Civil Service Commission, making her the first woman to hold such a high position in the federal government.

From her writings:

It has never seemed to me that a creed was the staff of life. Men cannot live by creeds alone. I should not object, however, to one that should read something like this:
I believe in honesty
I believe that a Church has no right to teach what it does not know.
I believe that a clean life and a tender heart are worth more to this world than all the faith and all the gods of Time.
I believe that this world needs all our best efforts and earnest endeavors twenty-four hours every day.
I believe that if our labors were needed in another world we should be in another world, so long as we are in this one I believe in making the best and the most of the materials we have on hand.
I believe that fear of a god cripples men's intellects more than any other influence. I believe that Humanity needs and should have all the same, efforts, love, worship and tenderness.
I believe that men, women, and children need our best thoughts, our tenderest consideration, and our earnest sympathy. ect.

If I had never read the book, "Women Without Superstition" I would have never heard of these women, women who certainly deserve a place in history but are rarely referenced or studied in our public schools.

I think what these women were able to accomplish, especially considering the times that they lived in, are far more worthy of sainthood than Ingersoll.

Without belittling the accomplishments of any of those women, Sohy, I still maintain that the sheer nobility of Ingersoll's writings and speeches qualify him for 'sainthood'- and the quality of those works, even to our modern eyes and ears, deserve wider dissemination than they have received.

(I will agree that the women you mention deserve wider recognition, too- and many others, such as Queen Silver.)

 

[southernhybrid]

Of course you put more value on Ingersoll, you're a man. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. Even in the atheist world, men get more recognition than women. Ingersoll was not any better than these women. In fact, they had far more obstacles to overcome that he did. I don't value anyone's words as much as I do their accomplishments, although, Ernestine Rose for one, was quite an accomplished public speaker and writer. I feel that these women accomplished much more than Ingersoll so that makes them worthy of atheist sainthood. These women actually influenced important progressive goals. I'm not so sure that Ingersoll matched those accomplishments. If we're going to copy the Catholic church and start having atheist saints, I think we at least need to start with a woman.

 

[Jobar]

Well, they ain't made me atheist pope or nuthin'- so AFAIC you have just as much right as I do to declare some atheist saints of your own!

Oh, and Ingersoll was very much a supporter of the women's suffrage movement- unlike Bierce, who was rather a misogynist. (Thanks again to Politesse, that article was most educational.)

My admiration for Ingersoll has a lot to do with his writing style, as much as the content of his writings. You can tell he's a man of his time from a certain floridness (floridity?) and from his word choices; but I still greatly enjoy reading his works purely for their artistic worth. He wrote a lot of fine poetry, too; perhaps that isn't up there with Wordsworth, Kipling, or Whitman, but still quite inspirational, IMO.

 

[ideologyhunter]

I would say the floridness is minimal, from the 19th Century context -- most of the time Ingersoll is on point, and he makes his key points with admirable economy. He's the real deal. With some of the classic atheist writers (I'm thinking of Bertrand Russell especially), the take-downs of errant scripture are sketchy and casual and far too vulnerable to rebuttal from the believers. Ingersoll had a gift of treating the weirder (and crueler) Bible passages with not only scorn but with a moral dimension. He would let you see how berserk the story or teaching was and then re-approach with his own humanistic viewpoint. (At the same time, he has a bounty of humor in his writing. He will bluntly restate an insane Bible passage in a way that makes me laugh out loud.) I've read all his essays, I think. They are endlessly quotable. As for his relative obscurity today, that's a consequence of the treatment of atheism in general in the popular press and the conventional narrative of U.S. history & culture. The good news is that Ingersoll was so well-spoken that his work has re-emerged for the freethought reader who follows up on Ingersoll references from modern writers.