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Roe v Wade is on deck

Medical Impact of Roe Reversal Goes Beyond Abortion Clinics, Doctors Say - The New York Times - Sep 10 - "State abortion bans carry narrow but sometimes vague exceptions, and years of prison time. That’s forcing doctors to think like lawyers, and hospitals to create new protocols."
In Wisconsin, a group of doctors and lawyers is trying to come up with guidelines on how to comply with a newly revived 173-year-old law that prohibits abortion except to save the life of a pregnant woman. They face the daunting task of defining all the emergencies and conditions that might result in a pregnant woman’s death, and the fact that doctors could be punished with six years in prison if a prosecutor disagrees that abortion was necessary.

A similar task force at an Arizona hospital recommends having a lawyer on call to help doctors determine whether a woman’s condition threatens her life enough to justify an abortion. Already, the hospital has added questions to its electronic medical forms so they can be used to argue that patients who had abortions would have died without them.

And in Texas, oncologists say they now wait for pregnant women with cancer to get sicker before they treat them, because the standard of care would be to abort the fetus rather than allow treatments that damage it, but a state law allows abortion only “at risk of death.” Some hospitals have established committees to evaluate whether a pregnancy complication is severe enough to justify an abortion.
However,
Some anti-abortion doctors argue that the concerns about not being able to provide lifesaving abortion care are overblown — “blatantly absurd,” as Dr. Christina Francis, the chair of the American Association of Pro-life Obstetricians and Gynecologists, said at a congressional hearing in July.

“Not a single state law restricting abortion prevents treating these conditions,” Dr. Francis argued, because they make exceptions for any life-threatening emergency.
But that evades the issue of how sick a patient has to be before she may get an abortion.
Anti-abortion groups contend that life-threatening conditions are rare in pregnancy and can be treated by inducing labor or performing a C-section rather than an abortion. “Even if the baby does not survive,” wrote Dr. Ingrid Skop, an obstetrician and the director of medical affairs at the Charlotte Lozier Institute, an anti-abortion group, “these humane procedures allow a grieving family to show love and say good-bye.”
Seems almost like an abortion with some other name.

In response,
The Biden administration wrote medical providers in July, reminding them that they had to comply with a federal law known as the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act. The law requires emergency rooms to provide stabilizing treatment to any patient who arrives with an emergency condition or in labor, or transfer them to a hospital that can provide it. That, the letter said, meant they “must provide” an abortion, even in states that ban it, if it is required to stabilize a woman’s health.
 
Justice Neil Gorsuch says he hopes report on Supreme Court leak investigation is coming 'soon' | CNN Politics
“That committee has been busy, and we’re looking forward to their report, I hope soon,” he said.
Let's see if that committee finds anything.

Chief Justice John Roberts defends Supreme Court's legitimacy | CNN Politics
Chief Justice John Roberts – making his first public comments since the US Supreme Court reversed Roe v. Wade last term, triggering demonstrations across the country – defended the legitimacy of the court Friday night while also acknowledging it had been “gut-wrenching” to drive into a barricaded high court every morning.

Roberts, without directly mentioning protests, said that all of the court’s opinions are open to criticism, but he pointedly noted that “simply because people disagree with opinions, is not a basis for questioning the legitimacy of the court.”

He said that it’s the court’s job to interpret the Constitution – a task that should not be left to the political branches or driven by public opinion.
For a conservative, he is unwilling to take responsibility for his actions. Actions like playing Constitutional Calvinball.

Justice Kagan cautions Supreme Court can forfeit legitimacy | AP News
Supreme Court Justice Elena Kagan on Monday cautioned that courts look political and forfeit legitimacy when they needlessly overturn precedent and decide more than they have to.
She said that this was not in reference to any particular case.
Still, her remarks were similar to points made in dissenting opinions she wrote or contributed to in recent months, including in the abortion case.

“Judges create legitimacy problems for themselves ... when they instead stray into places where it looks like they’re an extension of the political process or when they’re imposing their own personal preferences,” Kagan said at Temple Emanu-El in New York.
 
The nonreligious are overwhelmingly pro-choice
Americans with no religious attachment (self-identified atheists, agnostics, and those with simply no religious preference) identify as pro-choice by a 49-percentage-point margin over pro-life, 68% to 19%. This represents the strongest propensity toward the pro-choice position of any major U.S. demographic (as distinct from political) subgroup.
In U.S., Nonreligious, Postgrads Are Highly "Pro-Choice" - May 29, 2012 - "Men, adults aged 55+ lean pro-life; women and young adults are evenly divided"

On Abortion, Few Americans Take an Absolutist View| Pew Research Center - May 6, 2022 - "A majority of Americans say abortion should be legal in all or most cases, but many are open to restrictions; many opponents of legal abortion say it should be legal in some circumstances"
At the other end of the spectrum, religious “nones”—U.S. adults who describe themselves, religiously, as atheists, agnostics or “nothing in particular”—are most supportive of legal abortion. Among religious “nones,” upwards of eight-in-ten say abortion should be legal in all cases with no exceptions (34%) or that it should be legal in most cases (51%).
That's a total of 85%, going from a 49% margin to a 70% margin.

Author Adam Lee:
As an interesting side note, all the religious groups surveyed were sharply divided on abortion. White evangelicals are mostly opposed, while white mainline Protestants, Black Protestants, and Catholics are mostly supportive; but among each, there are large minorities with the opposite view. (Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus were included in the survey, but there weren’t enough respondents to break those out as distinct subgroups.)
Pew Research again:
Compared with Christians, religiously unaffiliated adults are far more likely to say abortion should be legal overall—and significantly more inclined to say it should be legal in all cases without exception. Within this group, atheists stand out: 97% say abortion should be legal, including 53% who say it should be legal in all cases without exception.
Adam Lee again:
There’s only one answer that makes sense: All the arguments against abortion are religious arguments. There simply is no rational, secular, evidence-based case for banning abortion that holds any water.
 
This is a weird twist.
U.S. Supreme Court rebuffs fetal personhood appeal | Reuters
The U.S. Supreme Court on Tuesday declined to decide whether fetuses are entitled to constitutional rights in light of its June ruling overturning the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision that had legalized abortion nationwide, steering clear for now of another front in America's culture wars.

The justices turned away an appeal by a Catholic group and two women of a lower court's ruling against their challenge to a 2019 Rhode Island law that codified the right to abortion in line with the Roe precedent. The two women, pregnant at the time when the case was filed, sued on behalf of their fetuses and later gave birth. The Rhode Island Supreme Court decided that fetuses lacked the proper legal standing to bring the suit.

...
Conservative Justice Samuel Alito wrote in June's ruling overturning the abortion rights precedent that in the decision the court took no position on "if and when prenatal life is entitled to any of the rights enjoyed after birth."
Some anti-abortionists support legal recognition of fetal personhood: state and Federal laws and constitutional amendments, like a "Human Life Amendment".
 
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These male politicians are pushing for women who receive abortions to be punished with prison time | CNN Politics - from a month ago
Eric Swank, an Arizona State University professor who has studied gender differences in anti-abortion activists, said his research found that while men aren’t necessarily more likely to consider themselves to be “pro-life” than women, they “are more willing to take the adamant stance of no abortion under any conditions.”

The most restrictive bills, which don’t include explicit “life of the mother” exceptions and would charge those who receive abortions with homicide, have failed to make it to the full vote needed for passage. But others that prohibit abortions even in cases of rape and incest have taken hold in around a dozen states, including Missouri, Alabama and Tennessee, according to Guttmacher Institute.
Interactive Map: US Abortion Policies and Access After Roe | Guttmacher Institute
  • Most restrictive: 12 - AL, AR, ID, KY, LA, MO, MS, OK, SD, TN, TX, WV
  • Very restrictive: 2 - AZ, GA
  • Restrictive: 12 - FL, IA, IN, KS, NC, ND, NE, OH, PA, SC, UT, WI
  • Some restrictions/protections: 11 - CT, DC, DE, HI, MI, MT, NH, NV, RI, VA, WY
  • Protective: 11 - AK, CA, CO, IL, MA, ME, NM, NJ, NY, VT, WA
  • Very protective: 0
  • Most protective: 1 - OR
Those laws, CNN found, were also overwhelmingly passed into law by male legislators. While female Republicans almost always voted in favor of the legislation, gender imbalances within state legislatures, as well as the fact that female lawmakers were more likely to be Democrats, fueled the voting gap. And male Democratic lawmakers were far more likely than female Democrats to cross the aisle to vote in favor of the abortion bans, according to CNN’s analysis.
Republicans have unlikely allies in their fight to restrict abortion at the state level: Democrats | CNN Politics
From that article,
Currently, the only two Democratic members of Congress to publicly oppose abortion are: Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia and Rep. Henry Cuellar of Texas, which was noted in a recent column about the “end of pro-life Democrats” at the federal level. Republican women in the House, meanwhile, have historically been more likely than Republican men to oppose anti-abortion legislation, the Georgetown researchers noted, but that gender gap has disappeared in recent years as more moderate candidates were replaced by “strongly pro-life women from the South and Midwest.”

At the same time, experts say framing abortion as a women’s issue may prevent men from taking up the abortion-rights side of the cause, whether as advocates or lawmakers — saying anti-abortion activists have strategically capitalized on the power men wield in politics and business. “Let’s be real: there’s a WHOLE lot of men whose lives, careers, and families have benefited from an abortion,” US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, a New York Democrat, tweeted in the wake of Roe’s reversal. “Men, we need you right now. You can get through in rooms others can’t. Your power matters.” Some abortion rights advocates also note that gender-based framing of the issue leaves out transgender and nonbinary people who could be affected.
noting
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "Let’s be real: there’s a WHOLE lot of men whose lives, careers, and families have benefited from an abortion (including several “pro-life” GOP Congressmen).
Men, we need you right now. You can get through in rooms others can’t. Your power matters. Speak up. This is about us all." / Twitter
 
If an individual is certifiably unqualified for a medical or safety category of information shouldn't those who publish the information explicitly make clear that point at the top of the article. And if one is publishing such material has no qualification for expressing the opinion shouldn't she be liable for consequences her opinion has on readers and listeners.

I really don't see such precautions and sanctions as censorship, they are just being prompted to supply information about what the writer/propagandist actually knows.

Also if one knows the material is untrue should not that be made clear before the reader is subjected to the false information. The same should be required of those who are qualified to disseminate such information.

If validating or contradictory information is available to the publisher should not it be mandatory that the publisher to post that alongside uninformed/untrue information.

I'm getting tired of cries about freedom of the press when that freedom includes hurtful gossip and dangerous prescriptive known and obvious falsehoods.

On the other hand I do not believe that authority has the right to banish or punish those who publish false information. It is the job of authority to provide verifiable contrary information on any topic alongside the false information to the reader or listener. Verifiable information includes sources and accessible references.

My pissed off take on current state of community.
 
Their true colors:


How unaware can they possibly be? She appealed to her senator for help because she's got a completely non-viable pregnancy, the only question being who dies first.

He referred her to an anti-abortion clinic. Is there even a brain in his head??
 
Their true colors:


How unaware can they possibly be? She appealed to her senator for help because she's got a completely non-viable pregnancy, the only question being who dies first.

He referred her to an anti-abortion clinic. Is there even a brain in his head??
I guess the hussy should have thought about that before she spread her legs.


Right, gentlemen?? Right?
 
I'm getting the feeling that the right-wing thought doctors, women, and pro-choicers were just making shit up about complications with pregnancy. They seem to be utterly oblivious to sexual reproduction.
 
I'm getting the feeling that the right-wing thought doctors, women, and pro-choicers were just making shit up about complications with pregnancy. They seem to be utterly oblivious to sexual reproduction.
Yeah, they seem to have drunk their own kool-aid. Admittedly, it might have been a staffer rather than the senator themselves.
 
I very much doubt the Senator was involved. Just a staffer who thought the woman was lying because the alt-right people know nothing about the female reproduction system.
 
Abortion rights key issue with Latino voters, polls say - The Washington Post - "Experts attribute Latinos’ support for abortion rights to the community’s youth and length of time in the U.S."
For decades, Democrats and Republicans trying to attract Latino voters have been guided by widespread assumptions that the generally Democratic Latino electorate is conservative on the issue of abortion. But recent polls have debunked those long-held beliefs, finding most Latinos say abortion should be legal, often on par with White voters though trailing Black voters in support.

“I just don’t think we’re really as conservative as everybody thought,” Madrid said. “Almost everybody knows somebody who had to think about having an abortion.”

Experts credit the growing youth of the Latino population and the length of time they have been living in and adapting to U.S. culture. Those assumptions were also driven by long-held misconceptions of the role that religion, particularly Catholicism, plays in Latinos’ lives, they say.

“It’s very different than White evangelicals who want their religious beliefs coming out of the mouths of their governors. For Latino Catholics, they get their religious sermon on Sunday from the Father, and then they engage with politics separately,” said Matt Barreto, a Democratic pollster advising the White House and campaigns on reaching Latino voters.
Listing politicians like TX Rochelle Garza cand atty gnrl, Michelle Vallejo cand TX-15, Andrea Salinas cand OR-06 "She speaks openly about her Mexican-immigrant father who is against abortion and about taking her teenage sister to a clinic to get one.", Robert Garcia Long Beach mayor & cand CA-42, ...
This support is partially driven by younger Latinos. In the Post-Ipsos poll, 84 percent of Latino registered voters ages 18-29 thought abortion should be legal compared with 62 percent for those 65 and older — still a majority, but a significantly smaller one.

Mark Hugo Lopez, director of race and ethnicity research at Pew, said as more Latinos assimilate into U.S. culture, the more their views on social issues like this one change. A 2002 Pew and Kaiser Family Foundation survey found a majority of Latinos saying abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. That flipped by 2022, when a majority of Latinos said abortion should be legal in a Pew poll. (The 2002 survey was conducted by telephone, while this year’s version was online.)

“There’s been a shift in their views that looks more like the U.S. public,” said Lopez. “What has been happening is the population has become more settled, so immigrants are living here longer and in some ways looking like other Americans.”
By origin, who wants it legal:

Central Americans: 42%, Mexicans: 56%, Puerto Ricans 62%, Cubans 67%, South Americans 77%.

Some Latinos continue to be anti-abortion, however.
 
Asian Americans have some of the highest levels of support for abortion rights — and it's driving them to vote
“When Roe v. Wade was overturned, I remember you could hear this eerie silence for women, especially immigrant women, across the United States,” one voter said. "So that’s what’s really driving me to the polls."
Noting Public Opinion on Abortion | Pew Research Center
Should be legal in all or most cases: Asian 74%, black 68%, Hispanic 60%, white 59%
The costs are intimate, and Asian women are energized

Immigrant women and women of color like Singh say they know how personal and devastating the outcomes of abortion restrictions can be.

“I am very humbled to be able to go to the polls this year,” she said. “I think Asian and Indo-Caribbean women that are showing up to the polls, they really understand what the ramifications of Roe v. Wade being overturned are to our community.”
Then
In Texas, the state with one of the most restrictive abortion laws in the country, Asian voters feel a unique kind of pressure, he said.

“Texas is where the most people are going to be affected by this,” he said. “We know that Black, brown and newly immigrant AAPIs are inordinately affected by these laws. We think that’s going to lead to additional activation by people of color.”

Since young Asian Americans show such universally high support for abortion rights, even the most conservative ethnic groups under the umbrella are trending more progressive on reproductive health care, Nikore said.
A big problem is that "Asian" is a very broad category, and "AAPI" is even broader: Asian American and Pacific Islander. So it would be interesting to break down the statistics by ancestral homeland: eastern Asia (China, Korea, Japan), southeastern Asia (Vietnam, Thailand, etc.), south Asia (India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka), and Pacific islands (Philippines, etc.).
 
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