Roe v Wade is on deck

[Lion IRC]

Nice try to deflect.

Speaking of deflecting, can we talk about whether men constitute a significant percentage of the abortion on demand lobby.

Also you forgot terrorists.

Talking about terrorists would be... kinda like... you know... deflecting from the topic.

Let's try again without having to resort to criminals and lobbies.

How about you try addressing the elephant in the room. Men who think abortion on demand is the best thing since no-fault divorce.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Okay, so the boogie man, pedophiles, rapists, terrorists (?), men, and women support abortion?

Who is left that is against it? Tardigrades?

 

[lpetrich]

Speaking of deflecting, can we talk about whether men constitute a significant percentage of the abortion on demand l

Reproductive Freedom for All -  Reproductive Freedom for All
formerly NARAL, the National Association for the Repeal of Abortion Laws, then the National Abortion Rights Action League.

Its leadership is largely female.

I checked on "Women's Health Protection Act", introduced in Congress by Rep. Judy Chu in 2013, 2015, 2017, 2019, 2021, 2022, and 2023 to protect abortion. The cosponsors of these bills include most of the women in the House Democratic delegation, or at least so it seems to me.

How about you try addressing the elephant in the room. Men who think abortion on demand is the best thing since no-fault divorce.

Like who?

 

[Elixir]

How about you try addressing the elephant in the room. Men who think abortion on demand is the best thing since no-fault divorce.

Yeah let's address that. Because addressing that is SO much more important than talking about women dying from forced pregnancies and things like that.
So let's get on it, Lion - please name a man or two who thinks abortion on demand is the best thing since no-fault divorce so we can start to address that "elephant" problem you say you have.
Aw shit, you can't do it.
Guess it sucks to be you, eh?

The thing about women dying from forced pregnancies is, THEY ACTUALLY EXIST. Or used to, until your ilk killed them. And unlike all the "unborn children" that ever existed, they had memories, personalities, friends who miss them, maybe even had children themselves.
I say fuck you to people trying to sell the religious fantasy that men think abortion on demand is the best thing since no-fault divorce.

Nobody likes abortion, Lion. NOBODY.

Quit being one of those assholes trying to interfere in other people's health care, dude.
Minding your own business would be the moral and ethical thing to do, even if your superstition says otherwise.

 

[Lion IRC]

Nobody likes abortion, Lion. NOBODY.

Pretty, sure the 1 child policy in China would beg to differ.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If Lion ITC thinks his elective terminology improves his arguments let him continue to shoot himself in the foot.

The word elective is important because you're wanting to decide whether or not an abortion is medically unavoidable to save the life of the mother.

And you still don't know what that word means. Something can be essential without having to be right now. And some things can pose a certain but not immediate threat. For example, water breaking before viability. The possible outcomes are miscarriage/abortion/death by infection--note that a live baby is not on this list. But we have several cases already where women have been told to come back when they're sicker. This is risking the woman's life for no possible benefit.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The abortion-on-demand lobby dislike the word elective because it lays bare the reality of what's actually going on.

...arguing for the legalized elective homicide of babies like 21 week gestational age Curtis who, luckily, made it out of the womb and magically acquired a "right to life" which babies inside the womb apparently don't have.

Really now, survival at 21 weeks??

I presume this is from IVF--the way pregnancy is counted IVF is two weeks more advanced than natural conception. That would make this survival at 23 weeks. It happens occasionally. What your sources aren't telling you is how severely damaged they are--it would take a miracle for him not to be.

"Viability" isn't a magical cutoff, but rather the point at which the lungs function well enough that there's a possibility of not completely suffocating. Ones that just barely make it suffer damage from oxygen deprivation. What's the most vulnerable and the most oxygen-hungry organ??

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Nobody likes abortion, Lion. NOBODY.

Pretty, sure the 1 child policy in China would beg to differ.

No. They would prefer not to get pregnant.

And one-child, onerous as it was, was almost certainly the right choice. My wife is from before one-child, she's one of seven. That was not at all unusual and it would be one hell of a demographic time bomb. Note that their population increased during the one-child period.

 

[Rhea]

Speaking of deflecting, can we talk about whether men constitute a significant percentage of the abortion on demand lobby.

It should therefore be TRIVIALLY EASY for you to link to to the LOBBY Organizations that are made up mostly of men.


But you won’t be able to, because your claim is not true.
Women want control over their own bodies. You do not have the right to turn them into vessels for men.

 

[Rhea]

arguing for the legalized elective homicide of babies like 21 week gestational age Curtis who, luckily, made it out of the womb and magically acquired a "right to life" which babies inside the womb apparently don't have.

Exactly. While they are using someone’s womb, they do not have a “right” to the use of someone else’s body.

And once they exit the womb - it’s not magic - they no longer need to try to take use of someone else’s body without their consent. They don’t have more rights, they have less needs. They STILL don’t have the right to use someone else’s body without that person’s consent.


Note however, that Curtis, and his twin sister who did not survive the premature birth, were both wanted children in a wanted pregnancy. He wasn’t “lucky to make it out of the womb,” he was UNLUCKY that his mother went into labor so early, resulting in the death of his sister, 275 days in NICU for himself, and likely lifelong health problems over his bad luck in the wanted pregnancy being terminated naturally by god far too early.

He was extremely lucky to have outstanding medical care, and funding for his 275 days in NICU.

 

[Lion IRC]

Speaking of deflecting, can we talk about whether men constitute a significant percentage of the abortion on demand lobby.

It should therefore be TRIVIALLY EASY for you to link to to the LOBBY Organizations that are made up mostly of men.


But you won’t be able to, because your claim is not true.
Women want control over their own bodies. You do not have the right to turn them into vessels for men.

About Us - Men4Choice

Men4Choice educates, trains, and mobilizes passive male allies to become active partners in the fight for reproductive freedom. Learn more about us.

www.men4choice.org

 

[Lion IRC]

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Speaking of deflecting, can we talk about whether men constitute a significant percentage of the abortion on demand lobby.

It should therefore be TRIVIALLY EASY for you to link to to the LOBBY Organizations that are made up mostly of men.

Funny how Lion is ignoring that in general, Pro-Birth is supported more by men than women.

They need their boogie monsters to make their position not as abhorrent.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It's more than just abortion.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/trump-contraception-abortion-00159118

The turd is after contraception also.

 

[Rhea]

The assignment was to demonstrate

Speaking of deflecting, can we talk about whether men constitute a significant percentage of the abortion on demand lobby.

It should therefore be TRIVIALLY EASY for you to link to to the LOBBY Organizations that are made up mostly of men.


But you won’t be able to, because your claim is not true.
Women want control over their own bodies. You do not have the right to turn them into vessels for men.

And you came up with (from your link)

Of the more than 260 volunteers Men4Choice recruited to canvass their communities in support of reproductive freedom, 47% were male allies.

122 men. And even in an organization framed by men recruiting men, they couldn’t even get a majority.



Men do not constitute a significant percentage of the “abortion on demand lobby.”

Women want control of their own bodies. Your assumption that we are just pawns of men, in this as in everything else you think of us, is why we think the religious cultures of misogyny should have no place in lawmaking.


Dear, we know how to think for ourselves.

 

[lpetrich]

Abortion and the Politics of Motherhood by Kristin Luker - Paperback - University of California Press - 1985

That book features KL's research into female supporters and opponents of abortion. Supporters had familiar positions, that they don't want to be baby machines, but the opponents were interesting. They objected to abortion because they think that it is a rejection of motherhood, and that unwanted pregnancies are "surprise" pregnancies. Their objections to abortion seem very ideological, I must say.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It's more than just abortion.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/trump-contraception-abortion-00159118

The turd is after contraception also.

I wouldn't say that was accurate. He talks avout releasing X soon and it'll very interesting and smart. Then he doesn't release jack.

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah, here we go again. Why don't you post a position against women, instead of a lobby? I mean it looks a bit more awful if you actually create an argument against women and how you think their rights are effectively non-existent... when you can attack a strawman called the "abortion-on-demand lobby".

You say that as if men don't want abortion on demand.

I think men (deadbeat dads) are even more in favor of abortion on demand than most women.

I think rapists and pedophiles are also big supporters. Abortion is a great way to cover up your transgressions.

I am certain you have no clue what rapists, pedophiles or deadbeat dads think about abortion on demand because they are not necessarily anti child.

 

[Lion IRC]

And you came up with (from your link)

Of the more than 260 volunteers Men4Choice recruited to canvass their communities in support of reproductive freedom, 47% were male allies.

47% That seems like a lot.

122 men. And even in an organization framed by men recruiting men, they couldn’t even get a majority.

Men do not constitute a significant percentage of the “abortion on demand lobby.”

47% is such a significant percentage I would go as far as saying almost half.

 

[Lion IRC]

Funny how Lion is ignoring that in general, Pro-Birth is supported more by men than women.

I think I can ignore claims that aren't true.

This data (Gallup USA 2023) says men are 86% pro choice but women are only 55% pro choice.

86% seems like a "significant percentage".