Roe v Wade is on deck

[Toni]

...The other question would become, just how much nuance is needed in such an opinion to shave/overturn Roe v Wade, without destroying the concept of precedence.

Nuance?
You mean like this?
Roe V Wade didn't have this science.
#IFLS #Evidence_based

View attachment 34133

Attached are 3 images, two of which are drawings done in the 19th century of embryos. The other is a 3-d ultrasound image of an embryo. Only one of these is a human embryo. Which one is it?

Embryo 1


Embryo 2


Embryo 3

 

[Lion IRC]

...For some women, it is indeed a choice between having an abortion or dying. Unfortunately

Are you ready to compromise?
I will if you do.
I'll agree to allow life saving abortions for ectopic pregnancies if you agree to ban elective abortions for convenience?
Deal?

Nah...I didn't think you would.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

...The other question would become, just how much nuance is needed in such an opinion to shave/overturn Roe v Wade, without destroying the concept of precedence.

Nuance?
You mean like this?
Roe V Wade didn't have this science.
#IFLS #Evidence_based

View attachment 34133

You need to look up the word nuance.

 

[Toni]

...For some women, it is indeed a choice between having an abortion or dying. Unfortunately

Are you ready to compromise?
I will if you do.
I'll agree to allow life saving abortions for ectopic pregnancies if you agree to ban elective abortions for convenience?
Deal?

Nah...I didn't think you would.

Ectopic pregnancies are not the only life threatening pregnancies.

Whether you or I agree makes zero difference. Women do not need your permission or mine to make medical decisions.

How about you identify the human embryo in my post upthread (401)?

 

[OLDMAN]

I find it strange that people who think god has a plan, refuse to see his plan in one of five pregnancies ending in miscarriage. God's abortion clinic runs 24/7.

 

[Lion IRC]

Abortion on demand can't be a fundamental wimmin's rights issue because (self-evidently) huge numbers of women oppose abortion.

Such bullshit! It's a HUMAN rights issue.

Fine. Do you agree that unborn human babies are the same species as you and I?
...since this is HUMAN rights issue. (As you say.)

Let the huge number of women who oppose abortion decline to have abortions

Youre confusing Western, liberal, abortion on demand with the Chinese version of abortion on demand - being forced to have an abortion.

(the bible belt is also the abortion belt you know).

No. I don't 'know' that.
I dont even understand that statement, let alone have an opinion whether it's true or false.

Nobody is forcing abortions on them. But you want to force the superstitions of "huge numbers of women" on everyone, and modify their behavior to suit your *expletive* whims.

Nope. I don't want to control the body of a pregnant woman.
I want to control the abortion industry. Making murder illegal doesn't control anyone's body does it? Or WAIT!!! Maybe it does.
Maybe all laws are a violation of our right to bodily autonomy.
Hmmm?

Do you think eating meat should be illegal because huge numbers of women oppose eating meat?

If I did, I would start a new thread.
Off you go.

 

[Toni]

...The other question would become, just how much nuance is needed in such an opinion to shave/overturn Roe v Wade, without destroying the concept of precedence.

Nuance?
You mean like this?
Roe V Wade didn't have this science.
#IFLS #Evidence_based

View attachment 34133

You need to look up the word nuance.

I almost want to tell him that scientists have been studying human embryonic development since 1827. Using embryos. That were no longer inside women.

 

[Lion IRC]

...For some women, it is indeed a choice between having an abortion or dying. Unfortunately

Are you ready to compromise?
I will if you do.
I'll agree to allow life saving abortions for ectopic pregnancies if you agree to ban elective abortions for convenience?
Deal?

Nah...I didn't think you would.

Ectopic pregnancies are not the only life threatening pregnancies.

YAWN.
You raised the matter of life threatening pregnancies as a red herring didn't you. That's disingenuous.

Whether you or I agree makes zero difference. Women do not need your permission or mine to make medical decisions.

Democracy must be a real bummer for you, hey?

How about you identify the human embryo in my post upthread (401)?

Why?
So you can once again squibb it? That's just another bait and switch on your part because...whether you or I correctly identify which image is or isn't a human embryo makes zero difference. Women do not need our permission to...blah blah blah

 

[Trausti]

If you killed a 26-week preemie in the NICU, is it murder? If you can abort then, why would it be?

 

[laughing dog]

Ectopic pregnancies are not the only life threatening pregnancies.

YAWN.
You raised the matter of life threatening pregnancies as a red herring didn't you. That's disingenuous.

Whether you or I agree makes zero difference. Women do not need your permission or mine to make medical decisions.

Democracy must be a real bummer for you, hey?

How about you identify the human embryo in my post upthread (401)?

Why?
So you can once again squibb it? That's just another bait and switch on your part because...whether you or I correctly identify which image is or isn't a human embryo makes zero difference. Women do not need our permission to...blah blah blah

You can try to dress your irrational religious twaddle with misuse of biology all you want. No one in the USA needs your permission or agreement to have an abortion.

 

[laughing dog]

If you killed a 26-week preemie in the NICU, is it murder? If you can abort then, why would it be?

Why would it be what?

 

[Toni]

If you killed a 26-week preemie in the NICU, is it murder? If you can abort then, why would it be?

There are no abortions at 26 weeks.

Sometimes a pregnancy must be ended at 26 weeks because continuing the pregnancy represents a serious threat to the woman. Usually this is because of very serious fetal abnormalities that make it impossible for the fetus to survive. If the mother!/ health alone is at risk, and the only way to save her life is to deliver a healthy fetus at 26 weeks, every effort is made to save it.

Late term terminations are rarely performed and are generally performed only when it impossible to safely continue the pregnancy. It’s generally an emergency situation or one where a serious fetal abnormality that was incompatible with life had been discovered.

 

[Lion IRC]

YAWN.
You raised the matter of life threatening pregnancies as a red herring didn't you. That's disingenuous.



Democracy must be a real bummer for you, hey?

How about you identify the human embryo in my post upthread (401)?

Why?
So you can once again squibb it? That's just another bait and switch on your part because...whether you or I correctly identify which image is or isn't a human embryo makes zero difference. Women do not need our permission to...blah blah blah

You can try to dress your irrational religious twaddle with misuse of biology all you want. No one in the USA needs your permission or agreement to have an abortion.

Here's another 'usual suspect' who can't cope with purely secular arguments against abortion.

Did you see laughing dog use the quote function to support his intellectually dishonest claim about me using "irrational religious twaddle"?

Just patently false special pleading on his part about some imaginary right to do whatever you want in the USA without anyone's permission - American anarchy. Inconvenient democracy. A utopia of selfishness.

 

[Toni]

Ectopic pregnancies are not the only life threatening pregnancies.

YAWN.
You raised the matter of life threatening pregnancies as a red herring didn't you. That's disingenuous.

Whether you or I agree makes zero difference. Women do not need your permission or mine to make medical decisions.

Democracy must be a real bummer for you, hey?

How about you identify the human embryo in my post upthread (401)?

Why?
So you can once again squibb it? That's just another bait and switch on your part because...whether you or I correctly identify which image is or isn't a human embryo makes zero difference. Women do not need our permission to...blah blah blah

You are the one who posted a series of 3-D ultrasound images of a fetus ( what gestational age?) as though this was revelatory. In fact human embryonic development has been studied and catalogued using real human specimens for nearly 200 years. The 3-D images you posted don’t provide any new information. I don’t know what you think you were proving.

I posted images of 3 embryos at similar stages although the third one was a bit later. Does it make you uncomfortable to realize that when an embryo is aborted it is not distinguishable from the embryo if another animal except to a trained expert? What? That doesn’t fit your narrative?


Or what you thought you were proving about that ‘deal’ you thought you were making. And such an idiotic deal. An ectopic pregnancy can never result in a live baby. The only question is if the ectopic nature of the pregnancy can be recignozed and terminated to minimize the risk to the mother, if not her life.

 

[Lion IRC]

YAWN.
You raised the matter of life threatening pregnancies as a red herring didn't you. That's disingenuous.



Democracy must be a real bummer for you, hey?

How about you identify the human embryo in my post upthread (401)?

Why?
So you can once again squibb it? That's just another bait and switch on your part because...whether you or I correctly identify which image is or isn't a human embryo makes zero difference. Women do not need our permission to...blah blah blah

You are the one who posted a series of 3-D ultrasound images of a fetus ( what gestational age?) as though this was revelatory. In fact human embryonic development has been studied and catalogued using real human specimens for nearly 200 years.

Yep. And our knowledge of just how human those humans are has been a one-way journey towards the increasing realization that they are not 'blobs'.

The 3-D images you posted don’t provide any new information. I don’t know what you think you were proving.

I posted images of 3 embryos at similar stages although the third one was a bit later. Does it make you uncomfortable to realize that when an embryo is aborted it is not distinguishable from the embryo of another animal except to a trained expert?

The 3D color ultrasound imagery of living babies is making YOU uncomfortable. Smiling. Sneezing. Twin babies hugging. Crying.

What makes me uncomfortable is your banal indifference to whether or not a human embryo is any different to an animal.
Why am I not surprised that Planned Parenthood has been associated with allegations of selling body parts of aborted babies.

That doesn’t fit your narrative?

Companies which sell products for pre-natal (fetal) health and well being don't fit your narrative. Doctors who perform life-saving medical procedures on unborn babies doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[none]

If you killed a 26-week preemie in the NICU, is it murder? If you can abort then, why would it be?

Because it breathed?

 

[Toni]

You are the one who posted a series of 3-D ultrasound images of a fetus ( what gestational age?) as though this was revelatory. In fact human embryonic development has been studied and catalogued using real human specimens for nearly 200 years.

Yep. And our knowledge of just how human those humans are has been a one-way journey towards the increasing realization that they are not 'blobs'.

Biologist here. I've never thought that embryos were 'blobs.' Blastulas? Yes, if you don't know what you're looking at.

The 3D color ultrasound imagery of living babies is making YOU uncomfortable. Smiling. Sneezing. Twin babies hugging. Crying.

Why do you think a 3-D ultrasound of fetuses would make me uncomfortable? I enjoyed being pregnant. I wish 3-D imaging had been available when I was pregnant but it wasn't. I find both the technology and the images to be fascinating.

What makes me uncomfortable is your banal indifference to whether or not a human embryo is any different to an animal.
Why am I not surprised that Planned Parenthood has been associated with allegations of selling body parts of aborted babies.

I don't think those words mean what you think they do. I am certainly NOT indifferent to human embryos or any other animal embryo. I asked if you could tell the difference. Obviously, you cannot.

I have no idea why you decided to bring up Planned Parenthood.

Companies which sell products for pre-natal (fetal) health and well being don't fit your narrative. Doctors who perform life-saving medical procedures on unborn babies doesn't fit your narrative.

Again, I have no idea why you are aiming those words at me. I'm thrilled that doctors are sometimes able to correct some fetal abnormalities and provide a chance at life! I think it's fascinating. However, I also know that there are fetal abnormalities which cannot be corrected by surgery or other medical treatment. I know that God or nature, however you choose to call it, causes approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies to spontaneously abort because of fetal abnormalities. I know that most of those occur before the woman has any idea that she is pregnant.

I know what it is like to be pregnant. I know what it is like to want to be pregnant and not be pregnant. I know what it is like to lose a pregnancy that you wanted very, very much. I know what it is like to feel the first flutterings of a fetus kicking. I know what it is like to hold a newborn child in my arms for the first time. I've sat with friends and sisters who have lost pregnancies, infants, toddlers, teenagers and cried with them. I've talked to women who were so panicked at the idea of being pregnant that they were ready to suicide. I've known women who carried pregnancies as long as possible, knowing that the fetus could not possibly survive.

You cannot even correctly identify stages of fetal development and aren't interested in learning because it upsets your romantic notions of what happens during a pregnancy.

 

[none]

You are the one who posted a series of 3-D ultrasound images of a fetus ( what gestational age?) as though this was revelatory. In fact human embryonic development has been studied and catalogued using real human specimens for nearly 200 years.

Yep. And our knowledge of just how human those humans are has been a one-way journey towards the increasing realization that they are not 'blobs'.

The 3-D images you posted don’t provide any new information. I don’t know what you think you were proving.

I posted images of 3 embryos at similar stages although the third one was a bit later. Does it make you uncomfortable to realize that when an embryo is aborted it is not distinguishable from the embryo of another animal except to a trained expert?

The 3D color ultrasound imagery of living babies is making YOU uncomfortable. Smiling. Sneezing. Twin babies hugging. Crying.

What makes me uncomfortable is your banal indifference to whether or not a human embryo is any different to an animal.
Why am I not surprised that Planned Parenthood has been associated with allegations of selling body parts of aborted babies.

That doesn’t fit your narrative?

Companies which sell products for pre-natal (fetal) health and well being don't fit your narrative. Doctors who perform life-saving medical procedures on unborn babies doesn't fit your narrative.

Yeah yeah.
Once you get your "Eve" pregnant she owes it you to carry it to term..
Blah.

 

[Rhea]

Gynecological ultrasound had been around for more than a decade when Roe vs Wade was decided. It just wasn't relevant to the decision.

Nope. There were no hi resolution, full color, 3D ultrasound images of smiling, thumb-sucking babies plastered all over Facebook and Instagram back in 1973.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/01/pro-life-pro-science/549308/

“Smiling”?

Newborn infants can’t smile. They don’t acquire that skill until about 5 weeks after birth (assuming full term at birth). What on earth makes you think fetuses have that skill? Sounds like emotional fabrication going on there.

Moreover, yes there were images plastered all over picket signs in the 70s.

 

[Rhea]

I find it strange that people who think god has a plan, refuse to see his plan in one of five pregnancies ending in miscarriage. God's abortion clinic runs 24/7.

It is much higher than 1 in 5.
With new technology able to detect pregancies earlier, there are many more spontaneously aborted (miscarriage) events that were previously not known to be pregnancies at all.

It is more like 1 in 3 or 1 in 2.

For those who think that 2-day product of conception is A LIFE! they have ignored the demise of millions of them over the years in what were otherwise considered, “late, heavy periods.” God is indeed the supreme abortionist.