Roe v Wade is on deck

[none]

That's odd.

A flower isn't a berry, yet.
A berry isn't a sprout, yet.
A sprout isn't a mature plant, yet.

A lot of things have unfulfilled potential.

Yeah, it appeared to be a semantic argument so thanks for the flowery illustration.

 

[Rhea]

It is inspiring to see how attitudes about women have changed in Texas. 20 years ago Andrea Yates was vilified for killing her children. Today she'd be a progressive hero.

This is a rather obvious falsehood.
It attempts to pretend that there is no difference in a woman claiming power over the use of her own body, organs and blood against her will, and a woman with menttal illness in a situation where the other party could be easily removed from her custody by voluntary self-reporting.

Anti-abortion people are known for doing this. Pretending that we are not talking about a situation of bodily autonomy. Or that it makes sense for a woman to be enslaved by the state and her body no longer her own.

What’s interesting here is that you are not, I think, anti-abortion. That you arre merely arguing to argue.

But it is a terrible argument - a straw man of the most transparent sort.

Abortion is legal because all humans in America have the right to say whether and how their bodies will be used.
Period. Even if another being dies due to lack of access to her body.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That's odd.

A flower isn't a berry, yet.
A berry isn't a sprout, yet.
A sprout isn't a mature plant, yet.

A lot of things have unfulfilled potential.

Standard English idiom: Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

There's always a lot more flowers on our trees than pieces of fruit to eat.

 

[none]

That's odd.

A flower isn't a berry, yet.
A berry isn't a sprout, yet.
A sprout isn't a mature plant, yet.

A lot of things have unfulfilled potential.

Standard English idiom: Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

There's always a lot more flowers on our trees than pieces of fruit to eat.

This is about bodily autonomy always has been.

 

[blastula]

It is inspiring to see how attitudes about women have changed in Texas. 20 years ago Andrea Yates was vilified for killing her children. Today she'd be a progressive hero.

Only in conservtardia is drowning five children aged 2 through 7 the equivalent of aborting a fetus.

Psychopaths make up all sorts of justifications for their killings. Gacy described his victims as human garbage. So no loss, really.

You must be very confused. This you?

[YOUTUBE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lqa5uTgRdw[/YOUTUBE]

 

[lpetrich]

Yes, his lesson on embryology.

Supreme Court Again Refuses to Block Texas Abortion Law - The New York Times

The Supreme Court on Friday once again refused to immediately block a Texas law that banned most abortions after six weeks. But the justices agreed to fast-track their consideration of appeals from the Justice Department and abortion providers in Texas, scheduling arguments for Nov. 1.

Only Justice Sonia Sotomayor filed a dissent.

“For the second time, the court is presented with an application to enjoin a statute enacted in open disregard of the constitutional rights of women seeking abortion care in Texas,” she wrote. “For the second time, the court declines to act immediately to protect these women from grave and irreparable harm.”

But she added she welcomed the court’s decision to hear arguments in the two cases, which will apparently be limited to the procedural question of whether the Texas law, S.B. 8, is subject to review in federal court given its novel structure.

The Conservative Lawyer Behind the Texas Abortion Law - The New York Times
"Jonathan Mitchell has never had a high profile in the anti-abortion movement, but he developed and promoted the legal approach that has flummoxed the courts and enraged abortion rights supporters."

In 2016, the US Supreme Court struck down major portions of a Texas anti-abortion law that he helped write.

“We reject Texas’ invitation to pave the way for legislatures to immunize their statutes” from a general review of their constitutionality, Justice Stephen G. Breyer wrote in the majority’s opinion.

...
Mr. Mitchell represents a new iteration of the anti-abortion campaign. Instead of focusing on stacking the courts with anti-abortion judges, trying to change public opinion or pass largely symbolic bills in state legislatures, Mr. Mitchell has spent the last seven years honing a largely below-the-radar strategy of writing laws deliberately devised to make it much more difficult for the judicial system — particularly the Supreme Court — to thwart them, according to interviews.

...
As his role has started to become more widely known, he has drawn intense criticism from abortion rights supporters not just for restricting access to the procedure but also for what they see as gaming the judicial system through a legislative gimmick they say will not withstand scrutiny.

...
“If you want to overturn Roe v. Wade, you create a law that is inconsistent with the Supreme Court’s precedent and someone will challenge it and you work it through the federal courts,” she said. “You don’t create a law that is designed to evade judicial review.”

He deserves credit for ingenuity, if nothing else.

 

[ZiprHead]

He deserves credit for ingenuity, if nothing else.

Well, he deserves... something.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

DoJ and Texas are currently arguing in front of SCOTUS. CJ Roberts is complaining about the DoJ getting a dangerous blank check with approval for them to act on this. Justice Barrett seems to be going the opposite way thinking the DoJ has standing because they can provide relief not available by State remedies. Kavanaugh, Alito, and Gorsuch seem to be thinking Plessy v Ferguson was an awesome decision.

Nothing surprising out of the liberal justices.

The CJ Is so full of shit. The DoJ can't have this power... well... the fucking Supreme Court should have killed the legislation before it became law which forced the DoJ to enforce a Supreme Court ruling (Roe v Wade) and the subsequent cases supporting it. SCOTUS ruled this... that SCOTUS is having a hard time coming to grips with it is very bothersome.

CJ Roberts (paraphrasing): You don't have the authority to come in here and tell us to enforce the rulings we have made!

They want to shred precedence, then get off the fucking pot and do it!

 

[TV and credit cards]

DoJ and Texas are currently arguing in front of SCOTUS. CJ Roberts is complaining about the DoJ getting a dangerous blank check with approval for them to act on this. Justice Barrett seems to be going the opposite way thinking the DoJ has standing because they can provide relief not available by State remedies. Kavanaugh, Alito, and Gorsuch seem to be thinking Plessy v Ferguson was an awesome decision.

Nothing surprising out of the liberal justices.

The CJ Is so full of shit. The DoJ can't have this power... well... the fucking Supreme Court should have killed the legislation before it became law which forced the DoJ to enforce a Supreme Court ruling (Roe v Wade) and the subsequent cases supporting it. SCOTUS ruled this... that SCOTUS is having a hard time coming to grips with it is very bothersome.

CJ Roberts (paraphrasing): You don't have the authority to come in here and tell us to enforce the rulings we have made!

They want to shred precedence, then get off the fucking pot and do it!

Are they done? Are they at lunch? Do I have to subscribe for $10.99 a month? I got nothing but "loading" symbol.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/live.aspx

 

[ZiprHead]

DoJ and Texas are currently arguing in front of SCOTUS. CJ Roberts is complaining about the DoJ getting a dangerous blank check with approval for them to act on this. Justice Barrett seems to be going the opposite way thinking the DoJ has standing because they can provide relief not available by State remedies. Kavanaugh, Alito, and Gorsuch seem to be thinking Plessy v Ferguson was an awesome decision.

Nothing surprising out of the liberal justices.

The CJ Is so full of shit. The DoJ can't have this power... well... the fucking Supreme Court should have killed the legislation before it became law which forced the DoJ to enforce a Supreme Court ruling (Roe v Wade) and the subsequent cases supporting it. SCOTUS ruled this... that SCOTUS is having a hard time coming to grips with it is very bothersome.

CJ Roberts (paraphrasing): You don't have the authority to come in here and tell us to enforce the rulings we have made!

They want to shred precedence, then get off the fucking pot and do it!

Are they done? Are they at lunch? Do I have to subscribe for $10.99 a month? I got nothing but "loading" symbol.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/oral_arguments/live.aspx

I understand they were showing it on MSNBC, maybe elsewhere too.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

So we are looking at possibly a 6-3 decision here. Alito-Gorsuch-Thomas seemed to think that creating a law that prevented judicial review was okay. Jebus!

Obviously, Texas losing this case would only have the benefit of our legal system not devolving into a nonsensical mess of litigation in order to inhibit rights or protections. I mean, that is a good thing but has it gotten so bad, this is what we get to cheer for?

Abortion is dead, at some undetermined level. McConnell killed it. I'm still curious where the line gets drawn in the Dobbs case. Personal privacy line drawn at the Uterus or simply the Federal Government has no business in the reproductive rights of women. Or the reproductive rights of women, passed 6 weeks, which really begs the question on the justification for that, but these people be great lawyers, they can bullshit their way to any sort of decision.

The impact will be interesting, as the result of the case will likely be before the Mid-Terms. I ponder if SCOTUS can delay it to after the election. I think the term ends October 2, 2022. And boy, you want to light a fire under the liberals? In general, the two largest reasons liberals rushed to the polls was W and Trump. This will be the first issue that drives libs to the polls in droves. Axing Roe v Wade could be a mixed blessing for the GOP. Unless states like North Carolina and Florida hold back until after mid-terms.

 

[lpetrich]

Illinois legislature repeals “last anti-abortion law on the books” | WCIA.com

The Illinois House voted 62-51 late Wednesday night to repeal a 1995 law that requires doctors to inform parents when teen girls 17 and under seek an abortion.

Rep. Anna Moeller (D-Elgin), the lead sponsor of the proposal, described the Parental Notification Act as “the last anti-abortion law that we have on the books in Illinois.” Rep. Kelly Cassidy (D-Chicago), who sponsored the Reproductive Health Act in 2019, described the current notification law as a “gaping hole” in the state’s “firewall to protect reproductive health.”

Ohio Lawmakers Have Introduced An Abortion Ban That Goes Even Further Than The Texas Law

Ohio House Bill 480 would make abortion at any stage of pregnancy illegal. It also includes some of the same elements as the six-week abortion ban, known as SB 8, that went into effect in Texas on Sept. 1 — namely, that it would allow virtually anyone to file lawsuits against any person who “knowingly engages in conduct that aids or abets the performance or inducement of an abortion” for up to $10,000.

Abortion up to 20 weeks in a pregnancy is still legal in Ohio. But state lawmakers have signed 30 reproductive health restrictions into law since 2011 and introduced even more, including Senate Bill 123, a trigger law that would immediately ban abortion in the state if Roe v. Wade is overturned. The US Supreme Court will hear oral arguments on Dec. 1 about a Mississippi abortion ban and potentially rule to overturn the 1973 landmark case that affirmed a constitutional right to abortion.

Bill Text: OH HB480 | 2021-2022 | 134th General Assembly | Introduced | LegiScan

I'll now consider the prospects for abortion tourism.

• Cleveland to Pittsburgh PA 134 mi, Buffalo NY 194 mi, Detroit MI 169 mi, Fort Wayne IN 204 mi, Chicago IL 343 mi, DC 370 mi
• Cincinnati to Pittsburgh PA 288 mi, Detroit MI 263 mi, Indianapolis IN 112 mi, Chicago IL 294 mi, DC 501 mi

By comparison, Dallas TX to Oklahoma City OK 206 mi, Wichita KS 363 mi, East St. Louis IL 652 mi.

 

[lpetrich]

Conflict over abortion laws won’t abate if Roe v. Wade falls | ConchoValleyHomepage.com

"On both sides of America’s abortion debate, activists are convinced that Roe v. Wade — the 1973 Supreme Court ruling establishing a nationwide right to abortion — is imperiled as never before."

At least 20 Republican-dominated states will likely oppose it, and at least 15 Democratic-dominated states will likely support it, leaving as many as 15 battleground states. States like PA, MI, and WI, with D governors and R legislatures.

This seems like the years before the Civil War, when slavery was a very contentious issue, with Kansas being "Bleeding Kansas" from the strife there.

A possible preview is unfolding at Planned Parenthood’s clinic in Fairview Heights, Illinois, just outside St. Louis. It opened in 2019 as an abortion option for people from Missouri and other nearby Republican-governed states. It’s seeing an increase in patients from farther away as a tough ban in Texas creates appointment backlogs throughout the south-central U.S.

Dr. Colleen McNicholas, Planned Parenthood’s chief medical officer for reproductive health services in the St. Louis region, said the clinic is bracing for a possible influx of an additional 14,000 women per year seeking abortion services if post-Roe bans proliferate.

“We’re absolutely thinking about what operational changes we would need — staying open seven days a week, operating two shifts each day – to absorb that many patients,” she said.

Already, patients are “super frustrated” by drives of up to nine hours from home, she said.

An alternative to driving is Greyhound's buses, but the Dallas - St. Louis travel time is about 15 hours.

• West End DART light-rail station: Pacific Ave. + Austin St.
• 0.2 miles
• Dallas bus station: 205 S Lamar St, Dallas, TX 75202
• 15 hours
• St. Louis bus station (Gateway Transportation Center): 430 S 15th St, St. Louis, MO 63103
• Civic Center Metrolink light-rail station (Gateway Transportation Center)
• 23 minutes
• Fairview Heights Metrolink light-rail station: St. Clair Avenue + Hwy 161
• 4.7 miles
• Planned Parenthood abortion clinic: 317 Salem Pl, Fairview Heights, IL 62208

DART = Dallas Area Rapid Transit

 

[lpetrich]

Opinion | Antiabortion ideologues should be careful what they wish for - The Washington Post

Conventional wisdom holds that abortion is no longer a decisive issue for either party. Pro-choice voters side with Democrats; antiabortion advocates with the GOP; and single-issue voters tend to be on the antiabortion side. That could change dramatically.

But several Republicans are running as hardline anti-abortionists. Herschel Walker GA-Sen candidate, Marco Rubio FL-Sen, and JD Vance and Josh Mandel OH-Sen candidates.

Governors and state legislators will likewise have to put their MAGA bona fides on the table. Suddenly, this becomes an issue up and down the ballot, posing a problem for Republicans forced into increasingly radical positions.

Suddenly, the group of voters who think abortions should always be legal or legal in most cases will have something serious to rally against. That may well raise the importance of the issue for women who have never lived in an America where safe, legal abortions were not generally available. The extreme, demeaning attitude toward women who would be denied control of their own lives would likely become a campaign issue in and of itself.

Seems almost like Civil War II.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

*shrugs* If they don't feel pain, female voters will never organize to defend their reproductive liberties. Security has made them offensively complacent.

Denying women the right to abort a pregnancy strikes me as disturbingly similar to the crime of rape.

Watching how they deal with this ought to be entertaining. I hope they kick some ass.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

*shrugs* If they don't feel pain, female voters will never organize to defend their reproductive liberties. Security has made them offensively complacent.

Broadbrush sale at Home Depot this weekend?

Denying women the right to abort a pregnancy strikes me as disturbingly similar to the crime of rape.

Watching how they deal with this ought to be entertaining. I hope they kick some ass.

How they? It'll be interesting the reaction to the negation of at least a part of Roe v Wade. We still don't know what SCOTUS will actually do or how they do it. Nor the solution to fixing it after they break it. After all, I think this will be the first right SCOTUS recognized and then took back. Repeal of Roe v Wade, even in parts will likely be devastating to the concept of precedence.

 

[SigmatheZeta]

*shrugs* If they don't feel pain, female voters will never organize to defend their reproductive liberties. Security has made them offensively complacent.

Broadbrush sale at Home Depot this weekend?

Denying women the right to abort a pregnancy strikes me as disturbingly similar to the crime of rape.

Watching how they deal with this ought to be entertaining. I hope they kick some ass.

How they? It'll be interesting the reaction to the negation of at least a part of Roe v Wade. We still don't know what SCOTUS will actually do or how they do it. Nor the solution to fixing it after they break it. After all, I think this will be the first right SCOTUS recognized and then took back. Repeal of Roe v Wade, even in parts will likely be devastating to the concept of precedence.

Probably.

 

[lpetrich]

Dem senator warns Supreme Court of 'revolution' if Roe v. Wade is overturned | Fox News

During a virtual event Monday featuring New Hampshire's entire House and Senate delegation, WMUR reporter Adam Sexton had asked if public debate over abortion had "muted" due to many people in the U.S. only knowing life post-Roe v. Wade. Shaheen asserted that nothing would be muted about the reaction to a possible overturning of that decision

"I hope the Supreme Court is listening to the people of the United States because – to go back to Adam Sexton’s question – I think if you want to see a revolution go ahead, outlaw Roe v. Wade and see what the response is of the public, particularly young people," Shaheen said toward the end of the event. "Because I think that will not be acceptable to young women or young men."

noting
Adam Sexton on Twitter: ".@SenatorShaheen on new abortion restrictions going into effect in N.H. & the upcoming Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization case: "I think if you want to see a revolution, go ahead, outlaw Roe v. Wade and see what the response is..." #NHPolitics #WMUR (vid link)" / Twitter

"I’ve lived the consequences of the pre-Roe era – I had friends in college who were forced to seek dangerous back alley abortions because women across the country were denied access to critical family planning services. We cannot allow Republican lawmakers to turn back the clock on women’s reproductive health and rights, which is precisely what the Mississippi case seeks to do. It is time to sound the alarm," Shaheen said in a separate statement. "Roe v. Wade isn’t just a decision that impacts women, their health and their financial security – it also impacts generations of families."

Referring to an anti-abortion law that the Supreme Court will soon start considering,

Shaheen's colleague, Sen. Maggie Hassan, D-N.H., also appeared at the event. She called the Mississippi law "a direct attack on decades of precedent," and said "the Supreme Court should not put government in front of women's most personal, difficult, and complicated health care decisions."

Mississippi abortion case arrives at Supreme Court - The Washington Post

Mississippi is asking the Supreme Court on Wednesday to affirm its legislature’s judgment that it should be practically impossible to obtain an abortion in the state after 15 weeks of pregnancy.

But the state’s goals are more ambitious than that, significantly raising the stakes on the most important challenge to abortion rights in decades.

Mississippi also has a six-week ban on abortions that has been put on hold by lower courts. And if the Supreme Court agrees with the state’s assertion that Roe v. Wade should be overturned, the state already has decided to ban the procedure altogether, except in cases of rape or “preservation of the mother’s life.”

If the court decides to revoke Roe vs. Wade, then the court will likely leave the abortion issue to the states, and it will likely become a major battleground issue in the more evenly divided states. Which is what Sen. Shaheen was talking about.

 

[lpetrich]

‘A post-Roe strategy’: The next phase of the abortion fight has already begun - POLITICO

Abortion rights groups are amassing millions in donations, recruiting volunteers to help people travel across state lines for the procedure, and developing a grey market to deliver abortion pills straight to patients’ doorsteps — even in states that have banned them.

Clinics in Democratic-controlled states are also staffing up, anticipating a flood of new patients from Republican-led states, which have been tightening access for years and are likely to waste little time in fully banning the procedure should Roe fall.

On the other side,

“We’ve had a post-Roe strategy for the last 15 years,” said Kristan Hawkins, the president of the group anti-abortion group Students for Life of America. “Now is when the rubber will meet the road.”

While a ruling limiting or overturning Roe v. Wade wouldn’t outlaw the procedure nationwide, it would further fray the country’s current patchwork of access. A dozen states have “trigger” laws that will automatically prohibit abortion should the court overturn the 50-year old precedent, while other conservative-led states are expected to move swiftly to ban abortion in the wake of such a ruling. A smaller group of progressive states have abortion rights protected in state law.

But many states have neither banned abortion nor protected it, and they are likely to become political battlegrounds over the issue. That's especially true if the parties are almost evenly matched.

And in the five states that have just one remaining clinic, the right to an abortion may still exist on paper, but access is so limited that organizers on the ground say they’ve been readying for a “post-Roe scenario” for years.

“We still have a clinic, but it’s just one, they can only do procedures a few times a week, and they have to fly all their doctors in from out of state,” said Michelle Colón, the executive director of the Mississippi-based group SHERO, which stands for Sisters Helping Every Woman Rise and Organize. “They can’t even see everyone who needs an abortion in Mississippi, let alone serve people coming in from Alabama, Louisiana and other neighboring states.”

The nearest firmly pro-choice state is Illinois, and Jackson MS - Carbondale IL is 423 mi, roughly 7 hours by car.

 

[lpetrich]

Abortion pills are emerging as a battleground in the abortion wars. They are cheap and safe and easy to distribute, and one does not have to travel to an abortion clinic to use them.

Eight red states have already enacted restrictions on the pills in anticipation of the Biden administration easing federal restrictions on the drug and allowing it to be prescribed via telemedicine and mailed to homes — a decision the FDA will make later this month. And 16 other Republican-controlled states have introduced bills to limit access.

...
The two-drug regimen is far cheaper than a surgical abortion, can be ordered online and taken at home and carries a less than half-a-percent risk of major complications.

Yet the pills can only be taken during the first 10 weeks of pregnancy. By the time a person realizes they are pregnant and finds out how to obtain them, it may be too late. Abortion rights groups also worry misinformation and fear will prevent people from using the pills or deter them from seeking follow-up care if needed, particularly as more states move to ban them.

“I can’t stress enough that states are criminalizing this — putting people in jail who self-manage their abortions and going after those who help them do so,” Colón said. “If Roe is overturned, I expect that will only get worse.”

What will the right wing do? Set up border checkpoints?