Roe v Wade is on deck

[Trausti]

All for a clump of cells.

 

[lpetrich]

At that Congressional hearing today:
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Twitter: "TW: rape & sexual assault

The same kind of abuse culture & misogynistic culture that allows for abusers to cause harm inside their homes is the same abuse that informs Texas’ anti-abortion law. It’s the same abuse we see that has persisted for centuries. And it’s time to end it. (vid link)" / Twitter
She claims that the recent Texas abortion law does not allow much time to get an abortion, that six weeks is two weeks after having a missed period. She claims that the Texas antiabortion legislators are legislating on something that they know nothing about, something which could well be correct in many cases.

She also says that most rapists know their targets, so it isn't someone jumping out of the bushes. It's often a friend or a boyfriend or a boss or a legislator. Being raped can be very traumatizing, so one may not have a full picture of what went on for a long time.

She then asked a witness about how some abusers to sabotage their targets' birth control, so as to get them pregnant. But some abusers do the opposite, running away from their targets when their targets become pregnant.

Rep. Barbara Lee on Twitter: "Today, I shared for the first time publicly a very difficult personal story hoping that it will help destigmatize abortion care. I spoke out because we cannot turn back the clock to the days before Roe v. Wade.

We must keep fighting. #AbortionJustice can’t wait. (vid link)" / Twitter
She talked about how she went to Mexico to get an abortion some time around 1965.

Congresswoman Cori Bush on Twitter: "To all the Black women and girls who have had or will have abortions — know this: We have nothing to be ashamed of. We live in a society that has failed to legislate love and justice for us.

But we deserve better.
We demand better.
We are worthy of better.
(vid link)" / Twitter

Oversight Committee on Twitter: ""Abortion bans are not a just political issue, they do real harm to people across the country and in our most vulnerable communities."—@RepJayapal (vid link)" / Twitter
She described how her first child, Janak, was born prematurely, and how they had a lot of difficulty surviving their first three months. There would still be plenty of difficulty afterwards, like water on the brain, seizures, and pneumonia. Her marriage did not survive, and she and her ex-husband shared custody of Janak. She met a very nice man who became her second husband. She was careful to take birth-control pills, but she nevertheless ended up pregnant. A doctor told her that any future pregnancy would likely be high-risk to her and her child. So she got an abortion. It was a very hard decision, she concedes, but she was happy that she could do so after Roe vs. Wade.

 

[lpetrich]

Ancient Carthaginians really did sacrifice their children

Boo hoo hoo hoo hoo, Trausti

For 2,000 years it was considered slander to say a civilization killed its own children. So there’s that.

Evidence: {}

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Cori Bush Shares Her Abortion Story With House Panel - The New York Times

The hearing before the House Committee on Oversight and Reform reflected a sharp cultural divide, with Republicans accusing Democrats of “glorifying and normalizing” abortion, and Democrats making their point — that abortion is a decision best left to women and their doctors — in matter-of-fact terms.

After noting Reps. Cori Bush, Pramila Jayapal, and Barbara Lee on their experiences with abortions,

But Representative Kat Cammack, a freshman from Florida and the lone Republican member of Congress to testify, offered a starkly different personal story, telling her colleagues that she “would not be here” if her mother, who suffered a stroke after having her first child, had not rebuffed a doctor’s advice to have an abortion.

“You can imagine the feeling, the disappointment, the struggle, the internal anguish that my mother felt,” Ms. Cammack said, adding, “She chose life. That wasn’t an easy decision for a single mom.”

So what?

Thursday’s hearing, which also featured a virtual appearance by the women’s rights activist Gloria Steinem, demonstrated the depth of that partisan split. Representative James R. Comer, Republican of Kentucky, insisted that Congress must continue to ban taxpayer-funded abortions, while Representative Virginia Foxx, Republican of North Carolina, said she felt “profound sorrow” for women who terminated their pregnancies.

“Instead of glorifying this awful act of desperation, we ought to grieve for the tens of millions of Americans who never had a chance to take their first breath, to see their mother’s face,” Ms. Foxx said.

Consider this:

In the little town of Braunau am Inn, Austria, near the German border, a certain Klara Poelzl has discovered in the fall of 1888 that she is pregnant. She and her husband, a minor customs official named Alois Schicklgruber, decide that they don’t want to have a child at that time, so she gets an abortion.

Who did she abort?

Back to the NYTimes article. Abortion is entangled with racial issues.

Ms. Bush described how belittled she felt, as a Black teenager, “in being told that if I had this baby, I would wind up on food stamps and welfare.”

Representative Ayanna S. Pressley, Democrat of Massachusetts, who is Black, spoke in her opening statement of how denying access to abortion affects people of color, including “our lowest income sisters; our queer, trans and nonbinary siblings.” “These bans,” she asserted, “are rooted in patriarchy and white supremacy.”

Later in the hearing, Dr. Ingrid Skop, an obstetrician-gynecologist from Texas who was invited to testify by Republicans, pushed back, noting that abortion rates are much higher among Black women than among whites. “It’s not racist to want to save those children,” she said.

CB again:

“To all the Black women and girls who have had abortions and will have abortions, we have nothing to be ashamed of,” she said. “We live in a society that has failed to legislate love and justice for us, so we deserve better, we demand better, we are worthy of better.”

 

[Shadowy Man]

But Representative Kat Cammack, a freshman from Florida and the lone Republican member of Congress to testify, offered a starkly different personal story, telling her colleagues that she “would not be here” if her mother, who suffered a stroke after having her first child, had not rebuffed a doctor’s advice to have an abortion.

“You can imagine the feeling, the disappointment, the struggle, the internal anguish that my mother felt,” Ms. Cammack said, adding, “She chose life. That wasn’t an easy decision for a single mom.”

The operative word here is “chose”.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All for a clump of cells.

And the relevance? She didn't do it for the baby, she did it to save her own life. A stuck delivery like this kills both.

 

[Toni]

All for a clump of cells.

And the relevance? She didn't do it for the baby, she did it to save her own life. A stuck delivery like this kills both.

How do you know her motivation?

I agree that both would have likely died without her intervention.

I agree that this linked article is irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, women risk their lives during pregnancy and delivery. Yes, risk to life and health is greatly increased without adequate medical care

I strongly suspect that the person posting this link did so to highlight the extraordinary lengths that some women will go to to protect and deliver a healthy child.

It ignores the fact that for many women, terminating a pregnancy is the best way to provide for other children, to preserve the health and even life of the mother. It ignores the fact that all pregnancy and all childbirth carries significant medical risk. It ignores the fact that safe medical abortion carries less risk than a continued pregnancy and delivery. It ignores the fact that women have the right to make medical decisions in their own best interests a d are not compelled to fulfill the Madonna fantasy anymore than they are compelled to fulfill the whore fantasy of immature minds who struggle with the concept of women having free choice.

 

[lpetrich]

At an abortion-rights rally: Ayanna Pressley on Instagram: “That part.”

Ayanna Pressley: 'Abortion bans are rooted in patriarchy and white supremacy' - YouTube
Patriarchy? That's not difficult to see, as making women be baby machines. White supremacy?


MRamirez #PlanetOverParty on Twitter: "Slop LIED to Congress: Why is she not ALREADY decertified - and JAILED?! @SenDuckworth @DickDurbin @AOC @RepPressley @ilhanMN
What a ‘pro-life’ doctor said at the abortion hearing today was unacceptable, medically and morally #SmartNews (link)" / Twitter
noting
What a ‘pro-life’ doctor said at the abortion hearing today was unacceptable, medically and morally | The Independent - "Dr Skop didn’t tell the truth about abortion complications, how people report feeling after accessing terminations, or why people have late-term abortions in the first place"

Tempers flare during hearing on abortion laws when Ro Khanna pushes witness on gay rights - YouTube
RK quizzed Dr. Ingrid Skop, an antiabortion witness at that hearing. He went off on a tangent about homosexuality and same-sex marriage, it must be noted. Then there was a squabble about noting when each member's speaking time is up.

'What the HELL is going on here?' Nancy Mace rips Democrats for misusing hearing - YouTube
"During a House Oversight and Reform Committee hearing last week on expanding abortion rights and access, Rep. Nancy Mace shredded her Democratic colleagues, arguing that the committee has no oversight over state abortion rights."

She is anti-abortion, but she supports an exemption for rape, and she described being raped to a state legislature. Then she got into Afghanistan and border crossers and how border guards are being threatened with being fired if they don't get vaccinated. Then she made her comment about the Oversight Committee having no jurisdiction over state abortion legislation, though she didn't expand on that.

I'm most familiar with Rep. NM for calling AOC a drama queen about the Jan. 6 attacks, when she cowered in her office during those attacks.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

All for a clump of cells.

And the relevance? She didn't do it for the baby, she did it to save her own life. A stuck delivery like this kills both.

How do you know her motivation?

I agree that both would have likely died without her intervention.

I agree that this linked article is irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, women risk their lives during pregnancy and delivery. Yes, risk to life and health is greatly increased without adequate medical care

I strongly suspect that the person posting this link did so to highlight the extraordinary lengths that some women will go to to protect and deliver a healthy child.

It ignores the fact that for many women, terminating a pregnancy is the best way to provide for other children, to preserve the health and even life of the mother. It ignores the fact that all pregnancy and all childbirth carries significant medical risk. It ignores the fact that safe medical abortion carries less risk than a continued pregnancy and delivery. It ignores the fact that women have the right to make medical decisions in their own best interests a d are not compelled to fulfill the Madonna fantasy anymore than they are compelled to fulfill the whore fantasy of immature minds who struggle with the concept of women having free choice.

We have no evidence she did it to save the baby, you are assigning motives not in evidence. She was in a remote location where there was no expectation of assistance showing up, she had to do it to save her own life. Lacking equipment and medical training it was very much a Hail Mary attempt, she got very, very lucky.

Note, also, that she was in a time and place with high infant mortality, it's likely that babies were not that valued.

 

[Jarhyn]

How do you know her motivation?

I agree that both would have likely died without her intervention.

I agree that this linked article is irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, women risk their lives during pregnancy and delivery. Yes, risk to life and health is greatly increased without adequate medical care

I strongly suspect that the person posting this link did so to highlight the extraordinary lengths that some women will go to to protect and deliver a healthy child.

It ignores the fact that for many women, terminating a pregnancy is the best way to provide for other children, to preserve the health and even life of the mother. It ignores the fact that all pregnancy and all childbirth carries significant medical risk. It ignores the fact that safe medical abortion carries less risk than a continued pregnancy and delivery. It ignores the fact that women have the right to make medical decisions in their own best interests a d are not compelled to fulfill the Madonna fantasy anymore than they are compelled to fulfill the whore fantasy of immature minds who struggle with the concept of women having free choice.

We have no evidence she did it to save the baby, you are assigning motives not in evidence. She was in a remote location where there was no expectation of assistance showing up, she had to do it to save her own life. Lacking equipment and medical training it was very much a Hail Mary attempt, she got very, very lucky.

Note, also, that she was in a time and place with high infant mortality, it's likely that babies were not that valued.

So, I'm with Toni here... "A time and place babies are not that valued" is remarkably ignorant as a statement. Throughout time an history the majority of parents in the majority of their parenthoods have wanted their own children, and loved for them fiercely, and hurt deeply for their loss.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

How do you know her motivation?

I agree that both would have likely died without her intervention.

I agree that this linked article is irrelevant to this discussion. Yes, women risk their lives during pregnancy and delivery. Yes, risk to life and health is greatly increased without adequate medical care

I strongly suspect that the person posting this link did so to highlight the extraordinary lengths that some women will go to to protect and deliver a healthy child.

It ignores the fact that for many women, terminating a pregnancy is the best way to provide for other children, to preserve the health and even life of the mother. It ignores the fact that all pregnancy and all childbirth carries significant medical risk. It ignores the fact that safe medical abortion carries less risk than a continued pregnancy and delivery. It ignores the fact that women have the right to make medical decisions in their own best interests a d are not compelled to fulfill the Madonna fantasy anymore than they are compelled to fulfill the whore fantasy of immature minds who struggle with the concept of women having free choice.

We have no evidence she did it to save the baby, you are assigning motives not in evidence. She was in a remote location where there was no expectation of assistance showing up, she had to do it to save her own life. Lacking equipment and medical training it was very much a Hail Mary attempt, she got very, very lucky.

Note, also, that she was in a time and place with high infant mortality, it's likely that babies were not that valued.

So, I'm with Toni here... "A time and place babies are not that valued" is remarkably ignorant as a statement. Throughout time an history the majority of parents in the majority of their parenthoods have wanted their own children, and loved for them fiercely, and hurt deeply for their loss.

Sorry, but historically that's not been the case. High infant mortality rates meant that it was best not to get too attached until you saw if it was going to live.

 

[Jarhyn]

So, I'm with Toni here... "A time and place babies are not that valued" is remarkably ignorant as a statement. Throughout time an history the majority of parents in the majority of their parenthoods have wanted their own children, and loved for them fiercely, and hurt deeply for their loss.

Sorry, but historically that's not been the case. High infant mortality rates meant that it was best not to get too attached until you saw if it was going to live.

What's best and what happens to be a baked in part of human psychology are two very different things.

 

[lpetrich]

October 6: A federal judge temporarily blocks Texas' SB 8 abortion law : NPR

A federal judge has blocked enforcement of Texas' controversial new abortion law, granting an emergency request from the Justice Department.

The department sought the preliminary injunction just days after it sued Texas over its new abortion law. Known as SB 8, the law bans almost all abortions in the state after about six weeks of pregnancy, even in cases of rape, sexual abuse and incest.

In his 113-page ruling, U.S. District Court Judge Robert Pitman said that from the moment SB 8 went into effect last month, "women have been unlawfully prevented from exercising control over their lives in ways that are protected by the Constitution."

He added: "[O]ther courts may find a way to avoid this conclusion is theirs to decide. This Court will not sanction one more day of this offensive deprivation of such an important right."

U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland called the court's decision "a victory for women in Texas and for the rule of law."

"It is the foremost responsibility of the Department of Justice to defend the Constitution," Garland said in a statement. "We will continue to protect constitutional rights against all who would seek to undermine them."

The ruling itself: gov.uscourts.txwd.1146510.68.0.pdf

-

But then, a few days later, US appeals court lets Texas resume ban on most abortions

Knowing that order might not stand long, a handful of Texas clinics immediately started performing abortions again beyond six weeks, and booked new appointments for this weekend.

But barely 48 hours passed before the appeals court accepted Texas’ request to set aside Pitman’s ruling — at least for now — pending further arguments. It gave the Biden administration, which had brought the lawsuit, until Tuesday to respond.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

US Appeals Court puts hold on the latest TX abortion law on hold... temporarily.

The 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals acted swiftly to grant Texas' request for an administrative stay of the order, which it had filed Friday afternoon. The state's move came after US District Judge Robert Pitman just days earlier issued a sweeping order blocking the law at the request of the US Justice Department, which had brought a legal challenge last month.

On Friday night, the New Orleans-based appellate court also asked for the Justice Department to respond by 5 p.m. local time on Tuesday to a request by Texas that Pitman's order be frozen while its appeal is considered by the 5th Circuit. Judges Carl Stewart, a Clinton appointee; Catharina Haynes, a George W. Bush appointee; and James Ho, a Trump appointee, sat on the appellate panel considering the state's request.

The right-wing judges seem at peace with the hacking of legal code. They have gone Plessy v Ferguson on this.

What if the law allow people to sue people that helped a Latino vote?

 

[none]

US Appeals Court puts hold on the latest TX abortion law on hold... temporarily.

The 5th US Circuit Court of Appeals acted swiftly to grant Texas' request for an administrative stay of the order, which it had filed Friday afternoon. The state's move came after US District Judge Robert Pitman just days earlier issued a sweeping order blocking the law at the request of the US Justice Department, which had brought a legal challenge last month.

On Friday night, the New Orleans-based appellate court also asked for the Justice Department to respond by 5 p.m. local time on Tuesday to a request by Texas that Pitman's order be frozen while its appeal is considered by the 5th Circuit. Judges Carl Stewart, a Clinton appointee; Catharina Haynes, a George W. Bush appointee; and James Ho, a Trump appointee, sat on the appellate panel considering the state's request.

The right-wing judges seem at peace with the hacking of legal code. They have gone Plessy v Ferguson on this.

What if the law allow people to sue people that helped a Latino vote?

Which is interesting. Who gets the money?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The people suing. The State of Texas has monetized anti-abortion legislation.

 

[ideologyhunter]

The TX law also has retroactive features -- as I understand it, if you performed or assisted at an abortion during the recent couple of days of the judicial stay, you can still be sued. Fine. I want some TX atheists to sue God (recognized as an actual entity by TX lawmakers) for killing all of earth's fetuses and infants. Exhibit A: defendant's unrepentant confession in chapter 7 of his inspired book. Standing: same as any good Texan. Trial in absentia: legal. Possible defense: God is fictional or the Bible is fiction, but this is a defense in maybe Massachusetts but not the Lone Star State.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The TX law also has retroactive features -- as I understand it, if you performed or assisted at an abortion during the recent couple of days of the judicial stay, you can still be sued. Fine. I want some TX atheists to sue God (recognized as an actual entity by TX lawmakers) for killing all of earth's fetuses and infants. Exhibit A: defendant's unrepentant confession in chapter 7 of his inspired book. Standing: same as any good Texan. Trial in absentia: legal. Possible defense: God is fictional or the Bible is fiction, but this is a defense in maybe Massachusetts but not the Lone Star State.

So, you get a default judgment. How do you collect?

 

[Keith&Co.]

The TX law also has retroactive features -- as I understand it, if you performed or assisted at an abortion during the recent couple of days of the judicial stay, you can still be sued. Fine. I want some TX atheists to sue God (recognized as an actual entity by TX lawmakers) for killing all of earth's fetuses and infants. Exhibit A: defendant's unrepentant confession in chapter 7 of his inspired book. Standing: same as any good Texan. Trial in absentia: legal. Possible defense: God is fictional or the Bible is fiction, but this is a defense in maybe Massachusetts but not the Lone Star State.

So, you get a default judgment. How do you collect?

From the state of Texas, who offered the bounty for successful prosecution. You find a hungry lawyer in Texas to sue the state for thd promised funds, if necessary.

 

[Elixir]

The TX law also has retroactive features -- as I understand it, if you performed or assisted at an abortion during the recent couple of days of the judicial stay, you can still be sued. Fine. I want some TX atheists to sue God (recognized as an actual entity by TX lawmakers) for killing all of earth's fetuses and infants.

Better keep it narrow and only sue for dead Texan "babies". Even the most valiant Texan politicians and preachers can't sue over all of the earth's abortions.