Roe v Wade is on deck

[Jimmy Higgins]

Why do men find it so difficult to wear a condom?

They reduce sensation by an extremely large degree...

For both parties.

As a younger person, the concept of preventing someone from getting pregnant was in 72 point bold face font and lesser stimulus was 8 point.

 

[Toni]

Is there some irony in being unwilling to be judged for your opinion when your opinion is that you have a right to judge others?

That's why.
Tom

You should read some of the threads about sexual assault accusations and rape and child support.

There’s a reason that so few women post on this forum/in politics.

 

[ideologyhunter]

There are a ton of topics on this website where members rage at each other and get angry in a nanosecond. I may be imagining it, but I think it's gotten worse than ever in the general time frame of the End of the Trump Years.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It should be judged. It should be discouraged.

A single woman raising a child can mean hardship for both.

What should not be judged is the decision to abort. Especially if it is done early.

Time to buy a lottery ticket, but I agree with untermensche! I don't think that a woman should be "judged" here. But yes, single women without means should be discouraged from having out of wedlock children. It's a no brainer. A very detailed study conducted on a reservation (I'll try to find it) found that the number one indicator of poverty was a single person under 20 having a baby, number 2 (way down the list) was getting on drugs. It's hard on the woman, it's hard on her children, and it's hard on the local community.

The problem here is that the religious right could care less about the above. They just want women to be subservient to their husbands and their church and tow the Christian line.

I'm surprised at the size of the gap, I'm not surprised at the basic concept. (I wonder if perhaps "getting on drugs" includes casual use of marijuana.)

A related statistic: One of the things that substantially correlates with socioeconomic status is the age their mother had their first child. It's not just the first child that ends up behind, all her children tend to end up behind.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Your comments all seem to assume others are obliged to think about it exactly as you do.

Why would they?

I think Gun Nut's earlier comment is worth repeating. The abortion question isn't about abortion, it's about controlling who has sex. If a woman has sex when she shouldn't be having sex then she's a whore and should be punished. And women should never have sex for pleasure. Women should have sex when men want them to have sex. It's a religious thing primarily.

You forgot: women should only get pregnant when men want them to be pregnant. That's the real problem. Women's bodies are not under the complete control of men's desires for sex and progeny.

Disagree. The right thinks women should fear pregnancy from any sex outside marriage.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I was not looking for any word.

I said what I meant. Every word was carefully chosen.

Mine, as well.

I'm frankly not able to think of anything more discouraging than the current state of affairs regarding reproductive choices allowed women and girls unless we start making women who get pregnant without the express written permission of some man wear a giant letter....I don't even know what letter that might be.

Thank god men bear no responsibility in any of this! Except, of course, to pass judgement on whether a woman is allowed to control her own body and under what circumstances and which hoops she must jump through to satisfy his conscience. Heavy lies the crown and all of that...

Pregnancy should only happen when both parties want it to happen. Anyone who seeks conception without the clear permission of their partner is seriously in the wrong.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

True. But women are the "gatekeepers" so to speak. Shouldn't they make it a requirement on the guy to have a condom on, especially considering that the life altering consequences of an unwanted pregnancy are mostly on them? You are kind of infantilizing women in a way, by seemingly absolving them of the responsibility of condom use. There was an old saying when I was a kid (its sorta racist now, I would assume) that seems apropro: "No tickee, no washee".

Seconded. She's the one that knows if she is protected against pregnancy or if additional protection is needed. Unless it's an rape/abuse situation I would say the primary fault is hers.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wow

 

[Loren Pechtel]

4. Spontaneous abortions, aka miscarriages are far more common than medical abortions. Most of these happen early during the pregnancy, but sadly, some fetuses die during the later part of the pregnancy. I guess my point is that when nature causes an abortion, there is no judgment, but when a woman feels that is the best option for her, she is often judged very harshly by certain groups.

God, the greatest abortionist ever.

Is their real issue they don't like the competition??

YOU are infantalizing MEN by absolving them of any responsibility for birth control unless they are 'forced' to do so.

She knows if protection is needed.

While I agree with sohy about men using condoms, I also do not think that condoms should be the only form of birth control used. Condoms, when used properly and every single time is only 98%--meaning that over the course of a year, two pregnancies would likely happen out of every 100 couples using condoms only as birth control. That's the ideal situation. In reality, condom failure is somewhere between 3% and 14% because people aren't perfect and sometimes condoms break or come off.

Break or come off is already figured in that 98% number. The additional failures are people making mistakes.

(And note that the data from the Nevada brothels suggests that 98% is actually too low, that they are even more reliable when used with enough care.)

 

[Toni]

God, the greatest abortionist ever.

Is their real issue they don't like the competition??



She knows if protection is needed.

While I agree with sohy about men using condoms, I also do not think that condoms should be the only form of birth control used. Condoms, when used properly and every single time is only 98%--meaning that over the course of a year, two pregnancies would likely happen out of every 100 couples using condoms only as birth control. That's the ideal situation. In reality, condom failure is somewhere between 3% and 14% because people aren't perfect and sometimes condoms break or come off.

Break or come off is already figured in that 98% number. The additional failures are people making mistakes.

(And note that the data from the Nevada brothels suggests that 98% is actually too low, that they are even more reliable when used with enough care.)

The greater failure rate of condoms that I cited are due to human error. Generally male human error.

No method of birth control is 100% reliable. A friend was born after his mother had her tubes tied. Men want to be able to control when and whether women become pregnant. They must assume their half of the responsibility in preventing unwanted pregnancy.

You misattributed the part about miscarriages to me. That was actually sohy, who is, of course, correct.

 

[untermensche]

It is not the fault of men that women can suffer more from male error in this regard.

Blame mother nature, not men.

 

[Rhea]

Is there some irony in being unwilling to be judged for your opinion when your opinion is that you have a right to judge others?

That's why.
Tom

I’m pondering this. And wondering what you mean. Several people have posted some detailed sharing about why it it harmful to judge women that you don’t know, doing something that you’ll never have to do, and saying, “hey, all we’re asking here is that you stop judging us.”

And you reply with this passive aggressive and cryptic, “that’s why I won’t post.”
I assumed it was because you’d be judged for you comments.

Was it a different reason that you won’t post?

 

[Toni]

You forgot: women should only get pregnant when men want them to be pregnant. That's the real problem. Women's bodies are not under the complete control of men's desires for sex and progeny.

Disagree. The right thinks women should fear pregnancy from any sex outside marriage.

It’s not just the religious right who want to control if/when women conceive and give birth or raise their children.

Come on. We’ve had these discussions before.

 

[Rhea]

If men could simply take a pill to render themselves infertile, like women can trivially do, then that would be in the water like floride.

Bear in mind that is is not trivial.

It *should* be trivial, but it is not.

Oral contraception is pretty expensive.
The far right has been fighting to make sure it’s not covered by insurance.
The far right has been fighting to make sure you need to get a doctor’s appointment to get a prescription, instead of making it as easy to buy as tylenol (which will kill you if you take it wrong).
THis means that if you are a minor, it is very VERY hard to get.
And of course, the far right has been fighting to make sure Planned Parenthood, who would give it out free if they could, have their funding attacked and attempt to pass laws to prevent their clinics from staying open.
Meanwhile, capitalism has been fighting to make sure it’s not anonymous, by pushing for mail order requirements - that of course you can no longer hide from your parents or your spouse.
Bear in mind also that it stops working properly when you take antibiotics.

It’s not trivial. It takes a LOT of work to get on the pill and stay on it.
It should be trivial, but it is not.

 

[Toni]

It is not the fault of men that women can suffer more from male error in this regard.

Blame mother nature, not men.

Many (but certainly not all) men want to have sex with women. Many of those men wish to be able to control if a d when a woman becomes pregnant to suit the man’s wishes.

These are not really men so much as developmentally stunted in the toddler phase existing in a functioning adult male body, too immature to consider anything aside from their own wishes and needs. They lack the maturity and long range thinking ability to be considered competent in offering an opinion about what another person does with her own body, much less have any decision making power with regards to any woman’s or women’s reproductive or sex life.

Men who do not wish to father children should have vasectomies, a less expensive, safer, effective option that has the potential to be reversed.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Why do men find it so difficult to wear a condom?

They reduce sensation by an extremely large degree... so much so that masturbation feels better, to many. If men could simply take a pill to render themselves infertile, like women can trivially do, then that would be in the water like floride. Want to have a baby... you got to start drinking bottled water for a little while.

That would only end up be true if men could also get pregnant.

And it is not trivial for women

I suspect, given most men's,....endurance..... reduced sensation is a good thing.

But it's only a good thing for the women, so we can't have that!

 

[Derec]

Why do men find it so difficult to wear a condom?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is not the fault of men that women can suffer more from male error in this regard.

Blame mother nature, not men.

Many (but certainly not all) men want to have sex with women. Many of those men wish to be able to control if a d when a woman becomes pregnant to suit the man’s wishes.

These are not really men so much as developmentally stunted in the toddler phase existing in a functioning adult male body, too immature to consider anything aside from their own wishes and needs. They lack the maturity and long range thinking ability to be considered competent in offering an opinion about what another person does with her own body, much less have any decision making power with regards to any woman’s or women’s reproductive or sex life.

Men who do not wish to father children should have vasectomies, a less expensive, safer, effective option that has the potential to be reversed.

And in these days of vaccine passports and people lying about being vaccinated, do we need a vasectomy passport?

Also, the condom, lest we forget is also about STDs as well.

In the end, if a guy doesn't want to be stuck raising or paying to help raise a child, they should be for comprehensive sex education in schools, eased access to birth control, and access to reproductive health care... as well as be knowledgeable about the vaginas (and the woman attached to them) they are pumping baby code into.

 

[Jarhyn]

That would only end up be true if men could also get pregnant.

And it is not trivial for women

I suspect, given most men's,....endurance..... reduced sensation is a good thing.

But it's only a good thing for the women, so we can't have that!

My point is that the pill is not trivial to women, sorry if I was ambiguous there. As for reduced sensation, I could care less about that.

One thing about men and condoms... Most men thing kits all about the hard and the fast, and maybe that works for them? I suspect rather that there are a lot of men who have never even tried, over all their years, to see what actually happens when they try to "go slow".

Here's a hint for everyone who complains about condoms: quit treating it like fucking is a race, and start treating it like it's a pleasant walk in a sunny park.

The difference will be rather intense. In fact, the 'loss of sensation' from wearing the condom will probably make such more enjoyable still.

Or, to put it another way, when you run water slowly into a glass, you'll end up with a fuller cup then when you sprayed it in from a firehose to see all of it splash out again.

 

[Toni]

It is not the fault of men that women can suffer more from male error in this regard.

Blame mother nature, not men.

Many (but certainly not all) men want to have sex with women. Many of those men wish to be able to control if a d when a woman becomes pregnant to suit the man’s wishes.

These are not really men so much as developmentally stunted in the toddler phase existing in a functioning adult male body, too immature to consider anything aside from their own wishes and needs. They lack the maturity and long range thinking ability to be considered competent in offering an opinion about what another person does with her own body, much less have any decision making power with regards to any woman’s or women’s reproductive or sex life.

Men who do not wish to father children should have vasectomies, a less expensive, safer, effective option that has the potential to be reversed.

And in these days of vaccine passports and people lying about being vaccinated, do we need a vasectomy passport?

Also, the condom, lest we forget is also about STDs as well.

In the end, if a guy doesn't want to be stuck raising or paying to help raise a child, they should be for comprehensive sex education in schools, eased access to birth control, and access to reproductive health care... as well as be knowledgeable about the vaginas (and the woman attached to them) they are pumping baby code into.

I think that is all well and good--necessary but it's not sufficient.

I think that we MUST do much, much more to ensure that kids growing up see that they have a future that includes gainful employment--not slave wages, decent housing, excellent education and health care, real opportunity. People are more inclined to look further ahead if they think there is something there that they can reach. We ridicule certain kinds of people for focusing on getting fancy phones or whatever but that's so much easier to get than figuring out what you need to do to prepare yourself for Real Life: jobs, responsibilities, saving for the future. If kids grow up uncertain of being able to ever support themselves decently, then why even try? I mean: I did not try out for my high school basketball team because I'm too short and female and there were only male teams when I was in high school. It wasn't even something I thought about--because it was never going to happen for me. You only try for things you think you have a chance of achieving. A lot of stuff is really hard to figure out if your family doesn't have a history of attending post secondary education, of building careers, job security, home ownership, etc.

And at the same time, we need to help those who get pregnant still have a future: easy access to abortion services if that is their choice; support in placing their child for adoption if that is their choice; support for them raising their child if that is their choice. Intense support for parents and for children in this situation.