Roe v Wade is on deck

[marc]

Is the draft a leak or a trial balloon?

Heard there was a previous leak than Roberts didn't want to overturn Roe, just chip away at it some more. So this could have been leaked to prevent him from toning down the rhetoric in the decision, and make it sound like it is actually based in legal theory.

 

[Elixir]

 

[TSwizzle]

Fuck Newsom! And not in a 'oh he made me wear a mask, but not really, I hate him' sort of way, but in a, what is fucking wrong with him?

What is wrong with Newsom? He is an insufferable prick.

 

[Copernicus]

I already have one Facebook friend who is so outraged at the cost of filling his diesel-guzzling truck that he vows not to vote for Democrats in November.

That’s fine. Will he vote Dem when it’s even worse with a GQP Congress?

No, I think that he, like so many Americans, votes in kneejerk fashion against the party in power when things are not going swimmingly well. He blames Biden for the inflation in fuel and food prices, even though he knows Biden didn't break anything that caused the problem. Biden didn't make Putin start a war against Ukraine, for example, and that has been a major factor in the inflation. However, he's the president. He's supposed to fix everything. If the Democrats can't pass their agenda because of one or two Democratic senators that can block the agenda, then don't vote for Democrats. Republicans, at least, don't have any clear agenda for fixing things, but they get mad as hell that so many things are broken. Anger is an easier sell than proposed solutions that don't manage to squeak through the Senate.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I've heard this blue/red state thing before. But, the problem is that there really aren't any red or blue states. Florida used to be very blue, but now it appears to be very red. Georgia is now moving toward being blue, but I won't be surprised if it's very red in the fall. And, if you really believe that there are states that are permanently blue or red, most of them are on the west and east coasts. Just how do you make a country out of New Jersey, New York, Massachusetts, etc. along with California, and a couple of other western states? And what about Illinois? What if Georgia turns bright blue? it borders on Alabama, Florida and SC. Georgia has voted blue for federal office holders but we have red state officials. Even New Jersey has had several red governors, as has Massachusetts. What do you do with that mess?

The division is more along the lines of rural verses urban, with a big mix in the sunburn areas. I live on a street that is mixed race and mixed politically. Most or all of my black neighbors are Democrats while many if not most of my white neighbors are Republicans. Imo, it's very unrealistic to think that the country can be divided based on politics. How would you do it? You'd have to have a civil war first and then how would you unite states that are on opposite sides of the country? There's not going to be a peaceful division. That's wishful thinking.

Whites vote 3 to 2 for whomever the GOP nominates. Minorities 3 to 1 for the Dems (except in Florida if you use the s-word). 3 to 2 is a very solid majority on paper (20 points!!!) but in a large stadium, 3 to 2 doesn't look quite as impressive a majority. I looked at Ohio, the rural rural counties were 7 to 3 / 8 to 2 Trump in 2020. The mainly white, but linked to civilization counties (Lake, Medina, Ashtabula) were batting the 3 to 2 advantage for Trump (similar to white folk in general).

There seems to be two classes of white people, those involved with metropolitan areas and those that are rural. It is so easy to continue living in 1930 in the rural areas, where as being kind and nice and allowing different people the modesty of owning property forces the evolution of social change a lot faster in the city. And when the rural people hear that things are changing, they get whiny and bitchy. Why? Because they don't live in an actual civilization that is more than one or two degrees of separation of who they are.

It might be better if we Dems spent less time fighting culture wars and more time concentrating on things that would help the majority of people. I'm not suggesting we forget about things like abortion and gay civil rights etc, but I do think that cancel culture, defund the police etc. have done real damage to the Democratic Party. I think it might have been Bill Maher or one of his guests who said last week, "The Democratic Party was once the party of the working class but it's become the party of the faculty lounge". That's the problem. Too many average working class people haven't been helped by the Democrats which has allowed the Republicans to use the culture wars to lure them into their party.

Isn't this patently false? Democrats have been fighting for tax policy that benefits the workers. Democrats support retraining workers, but those workers want to put toothpaste back in the tube (and the GOP keeps telling them they will). Go to West Virginia and Obama is the reason for all the coal losses, yet the coal industry was hemorrhaging jobs since Reagan. I'm sick of hearing how the Democrats don't care about 'the people'. It is all the Democrats do. Biden got an infrastructure bill passed, more Covid support, etc... and people are whining he isn't doing anything for 'the people'.

I agree that the Dems support those things, but they do a terrible job of marketing them, or getting things passed, so the sleazy Republicans take the most extreme parts of the culture war and pretend they are the biggest issues of interest in the Democratic Party. It's all about perception. The perception seems to be that the Dems don't care about the mostly white working class.

That'd be 40 years of AM radio / 20 years of cable news turn propaganda to blame for that. Yes, Dems aren't as good as messaging, but the GOP have been cheating at this for decades.

The working class doesn't want to see all college loans forgiven, or the police funding cut back, or being forced to use new pronouns for groups that they aren't familiar with and at least for now, hold some prejudice towards.

[rant time, please don't take personally! ]And another thing, I'm fucking tired of not being called working class. It is some damned perverted labeling shit to equate what a bunch of stuck in the 50s rural white people want as being what the "working class think". I work, I work hard. I've worked extraordinarily hard at times. I'm tired of my opinions being lopped into some pit of unimportance because the "working class" believes....

No, the "working class" doesn't believe that. The "working class" consists of the "lower", "middle", and "upper" classes that work. The "working class" believes a lot of things. Being a disgruntled white person who is stuck in a 1950s utopia mindset doesn't make them the sole inhabiter of the "the working class".

I'm afraid the Dems need to learn how to play dirty and put less emphasis on the social things and more emphasis on the things that help everyone. Sadly, most dumbass Republicans don't realize that their party would love to end or drastically reduce social security benefits and Medicare. Sadly, many poor white people who are on M'caid, have been lured in by false claims that the Dems want to destroy Christianity or force their little girls to share a bathroom with a trans girl who still has a penis. Idiots fall for this shit and I'm afraid it has hurt the Dems to the point where people are voting against their best interest out of fear of what the liberals are going to do to them.

If it makes you feel any better, it doesn't matter, we lost, so 20 to 40 years of some tough times ahead. Well, I'm a white heterosexual male, so probably not as bad for me.

 

[TomC]

It shows how effective the right wing smear machine is that even sohy buys into the "cancel culture" bullshit. That whole last paragraph could have come out of any right wing radio show.

And that's just fucking depressing.

What's even more depressing, to me, is that when someone like Sohy makes a clear eyed assessment of the current reality people like you dismiss her as a victim of the right wing smear machine.

This is why, IMHO, Democrats are such losers. They consistently make the perfect the enemy of the good.

TeaPartiers don't bother with that strategy for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They'll go vote for people like Gaetz and Trump, even though they're douchebags. So many leftists were too pure to vote for Clinton in 2016 that she lost, and now RvW is on deck.
Tom

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It shows how effective the right wing smear machine is that even sohy buys into the "cancel culture" bullshit. That whole last paragraph could have come out of any right wing radio show.

And that's just fucking depressing.

What's even more depressing, to me, is that when someone like Sohy makes a clear eyed assessment of the current reality people like you dismiss her as a victim of the right wing smear machine.

But it is true. The GOP has perfected messaging. "PC", "CRT", "wokeness" was either created by or manipulated into a monstrosity by the GOP and right-wing media.

America, in general, have accepted this messaging. "ACA" = "Obamacare", Actual working class = "working class" (as in white labor), Democrats are the "faculty lounge" party. These things are just accepted because the terms or representations have been used repeatedly. As Trump proves, you stick to a lie long enough, it becomes true enough in the minds of enough people.

This is why, IMHO, Democrats are such losers. They consistently make the perfect the enemy of the good.

And this is where we get to the point of the real fraud. The Democrats aren't losers. The Democrat nominee for President has won all but one popular vote since 1992. For That is about 30 years of Presidential Races. Dems managed a huge majority in 2008, and the Dems managed to win two Senate seats in Georgia in 2020, losers my ass!

The Dems, however, lost in 2010 though (because of death panels... yeah, the Democrats are to blame for slander), and that changed the House of Representatives probably forever, via egregious gerrymandering, both Federal and State wide. Ohio Government is becoming Alabama, despite being a solidly purple state.

TeaPartiers don't bother with that strategy for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They'll go vote for people like Gaetz and Trump, even though they're douchebags. So many leftists were too pure to vote for Clinton in 2016 that she lost, and now RvW is on deck.
Tom

The Clinton supporter argument is still under-supported with evidence. The numbers in 2016 were all over the place. In some states Clinton under performed Obama, in some states she overperformed. 2016 is not easy to put into a bottle. And Trump defied all known political conventions.

Also, McConnell stole that SCOTUS seat, and Ginsburg should have retired!

 

[prideandfall]

What's even more depressing, to me, is that when someone like Sohy makes a clear eyed assessment of the current reality people like you dismiss her as a victim of the right wing smear machine.

but nothing about that assessment was clear eyed - it was entirely a screed based on a right wing narrative about the last 40 years of politics, which is predicated on lies believed by stupid people.

the democrats are fine on messaging, it's just that people don't like their message - because the message is boring and strictly concerns the day-to-day operations of national government.
and "the working class" doesn't believe any of that crap SH said, *stupid* people believe that.
*stupid* people are afraid of gays, and think that the federal government is an all powerful demigod who controls capitalism, and think that any sort of cultural or racial expression that isn't white judeo-christian is 'identity politics'

the dems are a stodgy and conservative right-center party that seems mostly interested in governance.
that isn't sexy, or explosive, or good fuel for the sort of rabble-rousing needed to perpetuate a political party that is mostly interested in power and the exertion thereof, so republicans have to blatantly lie about the nature of reality and most americans are so pants-on-head retarded that they just go along with it.

This is why, IMHO, Democrats are such losers. They consistently make the perfect the enemy of the good.

that is one of the dumbest fucking expressions in politics, and also is not in any way applicable to democrats.

also, here's a reality check: the dems are "losers" because they've scored less "points" in getting to impose their will on the american populace.
but that argument already fails before it begins, because that isn't the goal of the democratic party in the first place, and as a party they don't have a specific will to impose - they are a loose collection of varied interests that address issues of national governance as they arise.

republicans are 'winners' if you think that human civilization is a game where you win by 'owning' everyone and everything else.
so, republicans simply exert power whether or not it's in their authority to do so, and democrats operate within the existing confines of governmental procedure.

the democrats literally stick to their constitutional lane, and the republicans overstep their authority at every possible opportunity.

TeaPartiers don't bother with that strategy for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. They'll go vote for people like Gaetz and Trump, even though they're douchebags. So many leftists were too pure to vote for Clinton in 2016 that she lost, and now RvW is on deck.
Tom

well yes, that's because the democrats are a political party engaged in governance for a huge country, and republicans are psychotic theocratic asscocks who have the stated goal of stifling the governance of a huge country, and exist only to exert control and power for the sadistic pleasure of old white men.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Saw this out in the Web.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

.50 cal cans are even heavier.

And don't get me started how heavy that fucking SAW was...

Ammo cans are heavy even when empty. (There are several on local mountaintops, used to protect logbooks from the weather.)

 

[Jarhyn]

.50 cal cans are even heavier.

And don't get me started how heavy that fucking SAW was...

Ammo cans are heavy even when empty. (There are several on local mountaintops, used to protect logbooks from the weather.)

Yes they are. And also are good for protecting stuff from the weather!

They're so much worse when they contain a massive brick of lead, copper, brass, and powder ._.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

.50 cal cans are even heavier.

And don't get me started how heavy that fucking SAW was...

Ammo cans are heavy even when empty. (There are several on local mountaintops, used to protect logbooks from the weather.)

Yes they are. And also are good for protecting stuff from the weather!

They're so much worse when they contain a massive brick of lead, copper, brass, and powder ._.

I have no intention of even trying to lift a full ammo can. (And I don't think the the ones on the mountaintops are .50 cal, but something smaller. They're still something I really wouldn't want to lug up the mountain, though.)

 

[Bomb#20]

So would you describe yourself as anti-fire-department, because in your ideal dream world nobody would need one?

Bailing out of a plane is traumatic. Pilots report becoming permanently shorter afterwards. Would you describe yourself as anti-ejection-seat?

Man, you seem possessed over people not wanting to use the term pro-abortion. You might need to get over it.

Hey, I'm not the one who brought it up. Playball40 and Elixir hassled Steve about it for no good reason; tell them they're possessed.

Now, I would say I will be pro-decriminalization of abortion (and birth control) soon. Which really seems to be the more important thing and not the molehill you apparently want to set your flag on.

I think our side's refusal to say we're pro-abortion is only hurting us in the battle for hearts and minds, and that's the battle we who are pro-decriminalization of abortion need to win. There may well have been some strategic benefit to avoiding such language back when it was possible to say you're personally against abortion but you think the government should stay out of people's bedrooms, and still win a Republican primary; but those days are long past.

 

[southernhybrid]

It shows how effective the right wing smear machine is that even sohy buys into the "cancel culture" bullshit. That whole last paragraph could have come out of any right wing radio show.

And that's just fucking depressing.

It's not me that believe in it, but I know that the Republicans have used it to lure people into their party. I think there are more important issues to concentrate on, if we don't want a country run by extremists on the far right.

But no. Cancel culture isn't bullshit. Too many people have become so fragile that they can't laugh at themselves. It has nothing to do with being indoctrinated by the far right. I have no problem with any group of people, but it makes no sense to talk more about social issues than about the things that help all groups of people. I want children to learn about systemic racism and gay rights etc., but that shouldn't be the primary purpose of a campaign. It just gives the right more ammunition to attack Dems.

A few years ago, Caitlyn Jenner was roasted and mocked during a comedy special. She was there and she was able to laugh at herself. A few years later, Dave Chappell gets "cancelled" for making a few trans jokes. I watched the controversial performance. There wasn't anything to it. Chappell has been a controversial comedian who makes jokes about most every group since he first became popular. If you don't like his comedy, don't watch him, but for fuck's sake, what he said wan't worth all the criticism he got. I'm a petite blond female, and I can laugh at dumb blond jokes because I don't take them seriously. Sure there are limits, but the things that are getting liberals up in arms over these days are insane, imo. So yeah. There is cancel culture. It's not bullshit. It's an over reaction. It's good that George Carlin is dead because I'm sure the fragile little libs on the far left would be cancelling him too. That's the kind of shit I'm talking about. So, if you wanna cancel me for having this opinion, that's on you.

Don't worry about me. I will never vote Republican and I only discuss this shit with my closest Democratic friends, who also feel that these issues are losing elections for the Dems. I don't agree with everything the Dems propose, but they are far better than the alternative. Right now, I'd like to see the party concentrate on climate change, improving education for our youth, basic civil rights, and reasonable social programs, instead of going overboard with this shit. Btw, the Republicans also do the cancel culture stuff and what they do is far worse than what the Dems do. The Dems need to do to them what they do to the Dems. It's very sad that it's come to this, but if we want to win elections, unfortunately, we need to play the game.

I'm off topic, so I'll bow out now.

 

[lpetrich]

Rep. Jim Jordan on Twitter: "Can you imagine the media outrage if protestors were outside Justice Sotomayor’s house?" / Twitter - he's a right-wing Republican


Manchin to oppose Democratic bill guaranteeing abortion access | The Hill

“We’re going to be voting for a piece of legislation that I will not be voting for today,” Manchin told reporters.

“But I would vote for a Roe v. Wade codification if it was today. I was hopeful for that, but I found out yesterday in caucus that that wasn’t going to be,” Manchin added.

...
Democrats made changes to the bill from earlier this year to try to assuage members of their caucus. In a win for that effort, holdout Sen. Bob Casey (D-Pa.) announced this week that he supported the substance of the revised bill.

They removed a nonbinding findings section that, among other provisions, referred to restrictions on abortion as perpetuating “white supremacy” and called them “a tool of gender oppression.”

The revised bill would still prevent governments from limiting a health care provider’s ability to prescribe certain drugs or from providing immediate abortion services if a delay would risk a patient’s health, according to the Congressional Research Service.

The bill also prevents governments from being able to require that a patient make “medically unnecessary in-person visits” before an abortion, and would also prevent the government from requiring patients to disclose why they are seeking an abortion.

The bill also broadly would prevent governments from enacting any law that would create similar limits or that “singles out the provision of abortion services, health care providers who provide abortion services, or facilities in which abortion services are provided” and “impedes access to abortion services.”

I'll keep my eyes out with what happens to this bill. I'm sure that the Republicans will filibuster it.

 

[ZiprHead]

.50 cal cans are even heavier.

And don't get me started how heavy that fucking SAW was...

Ammo cans are heavy even when empty. (There are several on local mountaintops, used to protect logbooks from the weather.)

I use one to keep my drill bits in.

 

[Bomb#20]

Is there a good argument against mandatory voting? The myth is that it would turn the GQP into a dinosaur. I kinda doubt it. But would love to find out.

There are lots of points against mandatory voting. Can you not think of any on your own?

It would turn us all into Australians.

No one wants that.

 

[prideandfall]

But no.

yes.

Cancel culture isn't bullshit.

yes it is.

Too many people have become so fragile that they can't laugh at themselves.

become?
do you have any truthful realistic idea what would have happened 60 years ago if a black man said something a white man found offensive?

people have *always* been fragile, and people have *always* taken measures (some within the confines of the bounds of society, and some without) to try to either argue against or simply silence those who said something they didn't like.

the problem you people have with it now is that it's not white christian men dictating what is or isn't acceptable speech, and it isn't white christian men dictating what the consequences are.

60 years ago 'cancel culture' was lynching blacks for making eye contact with a white woman.
you trying to tell me that rubbing your dick on a woman's hip and getting called out for it worse than that?

It has nothing to do with being indoctrinated by the far right. I have no problem with any group of people, but it makes no sense to talk more about social issues than about the things that help all groups of people. I want children to learn about systemic racism and gay rights etc., but that shouldn't be the primary purpose of a campaign. It just gives the right more ammunition to attack Dems.

wait, what 'more' ammunition are you talking about?

the dems, as a party, have zero interest in social issues - there is absolutely no part of the democratic party's governance or campaigning plan that involves gays, or racism, or abortion rights, or women's rights, etc etc.

and yet, the right just pretends that there is, because it's nice for them as a political pinata to beat on.
what the dems actually do bears absolutely no relation to what the repubs attack them for, and hasn't in at least 70 years.

A few years ago, Caitlyn Jenner was roasted and mocked during a comedy special. She was there and she was able to laugh at herself. A few years later, Dave Chappell gets "cancelled" for making a few trans jokes.

cancelled how, exactly?
trans people don't like his material, and speak up about it.
chapelle continues getting gigs booked and has a multi-million dollar with netflix.

So yeah. There is cancel culture. It's not bullshit.

no there isn't, and yes it is.

worst case scenario, there is a burgeoning consequence culture wherein for the first time in history people who aren't white men are getting some kind of cultural say in what is and isn't within the bounds of society's standards.

 

[Copernicus]

...Don't worry about me. I will never vote Republican and I only discuss this shit with my closest Democratic friends, who also feel that these issues are losing elections for the Dems. I don't agree with everything the Dems propose, but they are far better than the alternative. Right now, I'd like to see the party concentrate on climate change, improving education for our youth, basic civil rights, and reasonable social programs, instead of going overboard with this shit. Btw, the Republicans also do the cancel culture stuff and what they do is far worse than what the Dems do. The Dems need to do to them what they do to the Dems. It's very sad that it's come to this, but if we want to win elections, unfortunately, we need to play the game.

I liked your long rant about how Democrats screw up their message, but the Republicans really are better at dominating the public narrative. Part of that has to do with their ownership of so many radio, TV, and news outlets, which make sure to report only on the topics that rile up the Republican base. What Democrats don't seem able to do is stray far from the Republican narrative, and their focus on Donald Trump keeps dragging them back into discussions about the issues that Republicans dote on. Climate change is something that people don't want to think about or discuss very much, because individuals can't do much about solving that problem except give up some of the things that they really like to do. Schools are important, but improving education opportunities and cancelling student debt isn't red meat for either side. I don't have a good solution for how Democrats can fix their messaging problem. I just don't think that Democrats can do a better job than Republicans at doing what Republicans are good at doing. Everyone wants infrastructure improvement, but they can't easily make blockbuster movies out of repairing bridges. Republicans are really good a mud wrestling. The abortion issue is a rare headline that works for Democrats right now, but it probably won't last until the November elections.

 

[lpetrich]

Congresswoman Marie Newman on Twitter: "I'll march over there every damn day if I have to.
Senators -- do your job and codify Roe." / Twitter
noting
Scott Wong on Twitter: "House Democratic women march to the Senate before abortion vote, chanting “my body, my decision!” (vid link)" / Twitter
Scott Wong on Twitter: "At least 37 House Dems are in the Senate chamber, including Jayapal, Clark, Omar, Tlaib, Cicilline, Bustos, Takano, Escobar, Espaillat
They applauded when @PattyMurray wrapped up her speech and were told those expressions not allowed in the chamber." / Twitter
Also Nydia Velazquez NY and Marie Newman IL and maybe also Val Demings FL. Some male colleagues went with the women.

US Senate to vote on legislation to codify broad abortion rights protections / Twitter

US Senate to vote on legislation to codify broad abortion rights protections

US Senator Chuck Schumer set a vote for Wednesday to take up a bill that would codify abortion rights in federal law in response to last week’s leaked draft opinion from the US Supreme Court that could potentially overturn Roe v. Wade. If passed, the Women's Health Protection Act of 2022 would “protect abortion access nationwide at a moment when it is under imminent threat, with multiple states enacting or proposing strict limits or outright prohibitions,” The New York Times reports. While the bill does not have the 60 votes needed to overcome a Republican filibuster in the 50-50 Senate, according to USAToday, it marks Democrats' first legislative attempt to protect the right to abortion by law.